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What's your answer to this Classic Gusher Defense?

#16 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE (njamilla @ Jun 6 2009, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for the welcome back.

Not all of LOTR got me either. I even think digital visuals in those movies weren't perfect yet. Are they even now? It seems you have to use speed and quick cuts to hide the imperfections.

You know, I love the Rankin Bashi versions of those films. It was full of music, great animation, and it had a very traditional story-telling feel to it. I do agree with Tolkien that The Hobbit was written too juvenile a manner. But I love the battle of 5 Armies at the end. It's a shame ROTK ended with 30 minutes of bye-bye instead of the attack on the Shire, which brought the whole story back home to Hobbiton. One might even have to say that LOTR would not have really ended without Saruman attacking the Shire. Brilliant on Tolkien's part.


This is the difference between a gusher and a fan: I loved LOTR but accept it has flaws: There was far too much Arwen which ended up boring the sh1t out of me. The elves looked too much like humans wearing pointy ears. The orcs were a little "too black" shall we say and spoke with a grubby lower-class British accent. Mind you, Tolkien seemed to be a bit of a racist - several paragraphs in FOTR come to mind - so while that's politically incorrect now, it's probably closer to his original thoughts.

The director's/writers' commentary on the LOTR DVDs is well worth listening too. They had a very hard time deciding what to drop and what to keep. They had a big discussion about the 'Too many but still not enough endings'. There were two writers. One thought they'd got the balance right, and the other said in hindsight they'd got it wrong. Jackson was non-committal (He suggested they settle it with a nude jello wrestling match).

To be honest, in many parts I think they did a better job that the book. Boromir in the book was pure cardboard and the Battle of Helms Deep was three panels in a Conan Comic.

As interesting is what they cut out: A horrible idea (they filmed) with Arwen on the battlements of Helms Deep. I would have been calling out "GO ORCS GO!" and be cheering as they cleared each wall. At the end when Aragorn is fighting the troll when they shot it he was fighting Saruman(!) who took off his helmet and turned out to be so beautiful he'd turn you gay. Also a scene on the battlements of Minas Tirith where a Nazgul appears and about to kill Gandalf, changes his mind and goes somewhere else. As the writers put it, "I'll be back you later!" To their credit they're good writers, recognize their mistakes and correct them at editing. (Compare to Lucas who "writes" his film at editing.)

LOTR was called by many as unfilmable. While it's not perfect, it's an awesome piece of movie making and surprised most of us. I do know people who don't like the book or the film though: It's something you need to be willing to immerse yourself in.

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 06 June 2009 - 09:50 PM

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#17 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 02:04 PM

QUOTE (Toru-chan @ Jun 6 2009, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At the end when Aragorn is fighting the troll when they shot it he was fighting Saruman(!) who took off his helmet and turned out to be so beautiful he'd turn you gay.


Whoa! Not quite... it wasn't to be Saruman, but a "human" incarnation of Sauron that self-willed himself into a body due to the ring coming closer to his vicinity.

QUOTE (Toru-chan @ Jun 6 2009, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also a scene on the battlements of Minas Tirith where a Nazgul appears and about to kill Gandalf, changes his mind and goes somewhere else. As the writers put it, "I'll be back you later!"


Actually, this is an inserted scene in the RotK special edition. It's the big box with all the additives and disks, special features, etc.

Here the Witch King of Angmar is on the Nazgul and he's about to kill Gandalf with Pippin looking on. First the Witch King breaks Gandalfs staff, asks him "Do you not know death when you see it, old man?" and then the Riders of Rohan show up with King Theodin and that's why the Witch King leaves so he can mow down all the horsemen, and Gandalf now has free time to save Feremir from being barbecued by his dad. Notice when Gandalf breaks in the pyre room, he doesn't have his staff, but takes a spear from a guard.

This post has been edited by Vesuvius: 07 June 2009 - 02:05 PM

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#18 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 10:37 PM

QUOTE (Vesuvius @ Jun 8 2009, 05:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whoa! Not quite... it wasn't to be Saruman, but a "human" incarnation of Sauron that self-willed himself into a body due to the ring coming closer to his vicinity.

Oh crap. Of course you're right. I copypastad the wrong name. (And when I read the novel as a kid I confused those names and thought they were the same person. Wizard Dyslexia?)

QUOTE
Actually, this is an inserted scene in the RotK special edition. It's the big box with all the additives and disks, special features, etc.

No s***? I've got the boxset but that scene isn't on it. Oh no. Does that mean I need to buy *more* DVDs? Mind you: There's a good chance the movies as released are *BETTER* than the special editions: editors cut stuff out of movies for many reasons. Length is just one of them.

QUOTE
Here the Witch King of Angmar is on the Nazgul and he's about to kill Gandalf with Pippin looking on. First the Witch King breaks Gandalfs staff, asks him "Do you not know death when you see it, old man?" and then the Riders of Rohan show up with King Theodin and that's why the Witch King leaves so he can mow down all the horsemen...

Yeah, I know, but the way it plays (and I have seen this scene) it just doesn't come off. He should have killed Gandalf, then go after the Riders, but even with his Nazgul he really couldn't do much anyway. Sure he knocked off Theoden, but he didn't stop the rout.

They might as well had the Witch King stay there and say "But before I kill you Gandalf, let me waste precious minutes telling you the rest of Sauron's plan..." while Gandalf tricks him from seeing the horsepersons' charge.
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#19 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:15 PM

QUOTE (Toru-chan @ Jun 7 2009, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(And when I read the novel as a kid I confused those names and thought they were the same person. Wizard Dyslexia?)


It got to me too for a bit, but I just realized that Saru-man was the man. Sauron was just a spirit (at this time)

QUOTE (Toru-chan @ Jun 7 2009, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No s***? I've got the boxset but that scene isn't on it. Oh no. Does that mean I need to buy *more* DVDs? Mind you: There's a good chance the movies as released are *BETTER* than the special editions: editors cut stuff out of movies for many reasons. Length is just one of them.


You might have to go buy more, Peter Jackson insists! The box set I bought was around eighty bucks, and I waited for it. I never bought the films right after their original release. The box set has all three films, and each film is on 2 disks, along with another 2 disks per film given solely to special features, making off, redundant madness, and so on. All in all it's 12 disks, and these films are significantly longer than the theatrical release. RotK is like 4 1/2 hours I think...


Ah well, let's rip on Star Wars now. LotR is good and fun to tear apart when watching. SW is fun to tear apart because it is self-depreciating... and I have to kick it while its down.
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#20 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:23 AM

QUOTE (Vesuvius @ Jun 9 2009, 04:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You might have to go buy more, Peter Jackson insists!

I reckon at Film Mogul Conferences they have workshops on all the permutations of DVD Box editions they can release.

QUOTE
The box set I bought was around eighty bucks, and I waited for it. I never bought the films right after their original release. The box set has all three films, and each film is on 2 disks, along with another 2 disks per film given solely to special features, making off, redundant madness, and so on. All in all it's 12 disks, and these films are significantly longer than the theatrical release. RotK is like 4 1/2 hours I think...

That's the one I have too.

QUOTE
Ah well, let's rip on Star Wars now. LotR is good and fun to tear apart when watching. SW is fun to tear apart because it is self-depreciating... and I have to kick it while its down.


How about: STAR WARS IV: A NEW HOPE AND CHANGE


http://moviesblog.mt...le-bit-awesome/

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#21 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 12:44 PM

laugh.gif Barak Oyoda, that's sick!
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#22 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 05:55 AM

LOL, well, even Obama would admit that the ears do have a ring of truth to it.

I love the scene in the animated ROTK with the Voice of Sauron. It just sends shivers down my spine. I saw that scene done in Jackson's version and there's no comparison. It's not just that the live-action was filmed very conventionally, but that the timbre of the animation's voice was so perfect.
Author: Sword Fighting in the Star Wars Universe.
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#23 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 12:47 AM

QUOTE (njamilla @ Jun 10 2009, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LOL, well, even Obama would admit that the ears do have a ring of truth to it.

Scene to Dagobah:
"Levitate an X-Wing? YES YOU CAN!"

They can show Yobama addressing the senate with a teleprompter.

But ultimately we would be disappointed. After overthrowing Emperor Bush we would find Yobama decides to retain the stormtroopers and continues using the Death Star to "Keep the Empire Safe." Wait until Robot Chicken get their hand on this. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
I love the scene in the animated ROTK with the Voice of Sauron. It just sends shivers down my spine. I saw that scene done in Jackson's version and there's no comparison. It's not just that the live-action was filmed very conventionally, but that the timbre of the animation's voice was so perfect.

Never heard that. I did notice in the PJ version that the British actors were much better at giving rousing battle speeches than the American actors. All that Shakespeare probably...
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