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ZP - Anti Homosexual Slurs Why the new trend on Zero Punctuation ? 03.04.2009

#76 User is offline   Game Over Icon

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:31 PM

Oh, COMMON people. I though you would've burried this issue already.

We're not racist. We hate everybody
We're not racist. We hate everybody
We're not racist. We hate everybody
Alright, repeat after me

On serious note, shouldn't we discuss why 50 Cent wears two hats?

This post has been edited by Game Over: 20 March 2009 - 11:32 PM

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#77 User is offline   ftr Icon

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:33 AM

QUOTE (Game Over @ Mar 21 2009, 04:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
On serious note, shouldn't we discuss why 50 Cent wears two hats?


Because he's an idiot.

Next.
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#78 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:42 AM

QUOTE (TheOrator @ Mar 20 2009, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He didn't cut the word off at the end to censor himself or the joke in any way. He did it to further the joke. I would argue that even if he did say the whole word--although it would be less funny--it would be justifiable because he was not being serious.


Well, yes. But like it or not, and he knew it, and you know it, there would be some portion of the community that didn't get it, and that thought it was a bad way to end things. They might even say "I get that he was trying to make a joke, but I don't like that he used that word to make it." So he made the joke that somehow his piece was being censored by a third party. That made the joke work, like his multiple "Freudian slip" references to man love followed by the quick disclaimer "I'm not gay!"

Your other examples are laughable. Bastard? Lame? You can't be trying to make the claim that "barbarian" is as offensive as "nigger," as though to say any derogative discriptors are ALL EQUAL. The words you speak of fall into the category of words that may have been offensive once (doubt it with "lame," but "bastard" and "son of a bitch" would be cause to duel TO THE DEATH - no joke, if uttered seriously only 200 years ago), but which are not now. This has been discussed here, though not at length, so have away if you like.

Remember that this whole dialogue began because Yahtzee has been making the same sort of joke: "I'm not gay," ie the ironic "I'm not homophobic," in other threads. A member here took those seriously to mean that maybe he really is homophobic and that it is offensive. I am defending his use of gender-identity-themed humour, and even of race-themed humour. I think still that he doesn't have the license openly to use the word "nigger," because it is still currently an offensive word, no matter what Quentin Tarantino may think. Trying to create fictions where white people use the word and it is tolerated by their black friends, as Tarantino does, does not ring true. Yahtzee knows this so even when he has black-faced Spiderman say "Oh Lawd I is Gonna Rape Me Some White Wimmin," he still knows not to utter openly a word which is troublesome to the better part of the black population (at least it is here in North America; who knows what they think of it in England).

Barbarian does not reference the Barbary Coast, by the way. It simply means "foreign." The Barbary Coast borrows its name from the same word, but "barbarian" has an independent origin, and "barbarians" can come from anywhere. And of course now the word has virtually no meaning; nobody calls any groups of people "barbarians" anymore. The word is more likely to evoke a memory of pop fantasy than anything else. But while you're at it, say you said "I was gypped," to mean you were ripped off in a deal. Likely you wouldn't offend anyone, not even folks of Gypsy descent. But "I was Jewed" would probably offend someone. You might get away with that however if you were Jewish and everyone hearing you knew that. Some words were offensive once to some people and they are not now, etc etc etc.

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#79 User is offline   Spann Icon

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 07:20 AM

...Is this still going on?
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#80 User is offline   Patch Icon

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 09:42 PM

Yes.

So, from what I've gathered from this;
QUOTE
(doubt it with "lame," but "bastard" and "son of a bitch" would be cause to duel TO THE DEATH - no joke, if uttered seriously only 200 years ago)


That the word nigger has been used to recently for it to be not offensive?

Also, is the word offensive in that question?
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#81 User is offline   TheOrator Icon

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 10:28 PM

I was gonna go for the gypped angle, but couldn't make it flow with my paragraph.

I wasn't trying to say they were equal, really, but more that word acceptability evolves--sometimes right in front of our faces. Maybe in Canada nigger can still get you raped, but I'll bet in Compton there are plenty of whites immersed in the ghetto culture who say nigger routinely. I'll bet Eminem does it when his publicist isn't around to keep an eye on things. If you have direct evidence to the contrary, I'd like to hear it. Even if this isn't the case, I would say that an African-American being offended when a member of another race calls him a nigger in the same way he would refer another of his own race would be--and is--irrational.

And not only would there be some portion of the community who wouldn't get it, this thread was started by one such person. I am arguing that this person is not a good reason to censor his works. Of course some people would get offended, some people would get offended at a lot of things.

Yahtzee probably couldn't get away with calling any old black guy on the street nigger, no. Call anyone on the street a fat bastard and you'll probably get an angry response as well. I'm arguing it is possible to use the word nigger in an inoffensive context, even outside of this academic context.

Actually, in St Paul Jew jokes (used ironically) are so popular here in St Paul, at least, that "You're such a Jew" is something people say to each other frequently, even in the presence of the our resident Jew, the often very prissy Hannah Nauen, who doesn't seem to care because she realizes it's not being used offensively.


I'm also tempted to argue that African-Americans referring to each other as 'nigger' is symptomatic of the kind of thing that's wrong with race relations in America today, but that's another argument.
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nooooo
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#82 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 08:19 AM

I agree on the last bit. The rest of it provokes mixed reactions. What I would say about it is predictable.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#83 User is offline   AdamM Icon

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:19 AM

These posts stopped being coherent on the last page. I can't understand what anyone is trying to say anymore. People, please, proofread for grammar and spelling.
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#84 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 09:20 AM

I am saying that white people should not say "nigger," although I have admitted that there are rare cases of comedy or less rare cases of drama that will allow it. At the same time, black people wishing to say the word may say it whenever they want.

It has been suggested that the double standard I endorse indicates a society where everyone is not 100% equal and tolerant. I have responded that I don't necessarily endorse such a society, but given that that is the society that we have at present, I might as well describe it, rather than describe some kind of society that we don't have.

Some have suggested that language is entirely neutral, and that every word has exactly one meaning. I have consistently pointed out that this is not true. Not only do many words have more than one meaning, but as with many things context is everything. If I call a friend a "faggot" it will have a different effect than if I call a faggot a "faggot" for instance. And etc.

I hope there aren't too many errors there in spelling or grammar. I know one sentence in the second paragraph ran on a bit, but I pretty much never proofread anything in these forums. From time to time you'll see that I edited one of my posts, and the reason is always that I read it and saw a great many typos. If you look back at some of my posts, and see uncorrected typos, that should indicate how seldom I read my own posts.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 23 March 2009 - 07:08 PM

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#85 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 12:07 PM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Mar 23 2009, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know one sentence in the second paragraph ran on a bit, but I pretty much never proofread anything in these forums.

Ohh, harsh.

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#86 User is offline   David-kyo Icon

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 01:22 PM

I love this shit.
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#87 User is offline   joshofalltrades Icon

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 01:45 PM

QUOTE (David-kyo @ Mar 23 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love this shit.


Being the key word.

This post has been edited by joshofalltrades: 23 March 2009 - 01:51 PM

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#88 User is offline   Ghello Icon

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 06:52 PM

Nigger.
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#89 User is offline   Patch Icon

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 02:36 AM

Fag
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#90 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 02:44 AM

Game Over.

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Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
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