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ZP - Anti Homosexual Slurs Why the new trend on Zero Punctuation ? 03.04.2009

#61 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 07:15 AM

Patch, your example may work for your example, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it works for general cases. For instance, "faggot" wasn't always a derogatory term for male homosexuals. Now it is. Common usage, not your single usage as in your example, made it so. The English language, in fact every language, changes over time, and it is usage that changes it. So if everyone started using a word or a phrase such as gear box in an insulting manner, then voila, it would be an insult. Some words that were once very offensive don't even exist, but now other words are offensive which either didn't exist before or which meant different things before.

Usage and of course context are everything. If I call a good friend of mine a faggot because, I don't know, he managed to kill me three times in a row while I was respawning, I'm sure I won't be tried for a hate crime. If I call a complete stranger a faggot because he cut me off in traffic, I may piss him off a little bit, but so what? If I call a stranger a faggot because it is clear that he is a homosexual, the effect will be specific and quite different from the other two scenarios. If I call any of these people a gear box I'm sure I'll raise some eyebrows but without common usage behind me I'll have a hard time getting my point across.

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#62 User is offline   AdamM Icon

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:17 PM

Yes, I'm not sure how you managed to come to the conclusion that usage has nothing to do with a word's definition. That is a word's definition.
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#63 User is offline   Game Over Icon

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE (AdamM @ Mar 16 2009, 01:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why do you put an apostrophe at the end rather than the beginning of 'em'?



Gee, is it because I'm gay?
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#64 User is offline   Patch Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 03:53 AM

I'd also like to point out Australian boilermakers. They use nasty words like 'faggot' to describe each other in a light-hearted joking environment. Are they being cruel or are they just joking around with friends?
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#65 User is offline   Maggot4Life Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 04:00 AM

QUOTE (Patch @ Mar 18 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd also like to point out Australian boilermakers. They use nasty words like 'faggot' to describe each other in a light-hearted joking environment. Are they being cruel or are they just joking around with friends?

Every time they say faggot, they secretly chant an ode to satan in their minds and pray to one day wear white bedsheets with pointy hats. So yes, I think they are being cruel...
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#66 User is offline   Patch Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 04:41 AM

I...
What?

I'm still amazed that one managed to say 'I'll fucking kill you, you fucking cunt' in a joking way. And I blacked it out because I believe some language is just too unnecesary, even as an example.
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#67 User is offline   Maggot4Life Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 02:53 PM

I once heard a guy threatening to run over another guy's little brother with a lawnmower. Jokingly. Just to put that out there....
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#68 User is offline   Game Over Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 03:43 PM

I'm sure if I jokingly state that I'm going to rape someone, at least one indavidua may equip themself with a rape alarm.

Is it true that most ausies are swearers or is this another stereotype?

This post has been edited by Game Over: 18 March 2009 - 03:43 PM

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#69 User is offline   AdamM Icon

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 02:56 AM

Interestingly Yahtzee's comments in the Zero Punctuation for Blood on the Sand seem to be quite relevent.

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A society where anyone can make jokes about anyone else and everyone laughs is a truly tolerant society; political correctness-charged censorship only serves to engender resentment and distance between social groups.


That's not necessarily what I've been trying to suggest in this thread, but isn't it the exact opposite of your viewpoint, civilian? Is Yahtzee imagining another "fantasy world"? Or do I have it wrong and this a different issue - 'jokes' are discrete from individual words?

This post has been edited by AdamM: 19 March 2009 - 03:07 AM

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#70 User is offline   Patch Icon

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 05:00 AM

Yeah, Australians swear a lot. It gets worse the rougher the idustry you're in.
Electrician: Very little swearing
Carpenter: A bit of swearing
Boilermaker: Swear once a sentence

+1 cool points to adam for having Yahtzee agree with him.
Maybe Yahtzee does still lurk...
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#71 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:53 AM

QUOTE (AdamM @ Mar 19 2009, 02:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interestingly Yahtzee's comments in the Zero Punctuation for Blood on the Sand seem to be quite relevent.



That's not necessarily what I've been trying to suggest in this thread, but isn't it the exact opposite of your viewpoint, civilian? Is Yahtzee imagining another "fantasy world"? Or do I have it wrong and this a different issue - 'jokes' are discrete from individual words?

I wouldn't say it's the "exact opposite" of my viewpoint. no. But since we don't live in a "truly tolerant society," then I dare say that whatever nonsense he was trying to describe would be a fantasy of some sort, yes. A white man needs to be very careful when calling a black man a nigger. But that's not even the comment he was making; he knew to cut the word off and make the use of the word at the end a self-depracating joke. A joke at his own expense, see, as though he were putting the lie to his claims not to be racist. His various comments about racism were directed at the "PC cops" who would try to assume that if he didn't like rap music and/or rap culture, he might be racist. Which is absurd, and he defended that point quite well, especially when he pointed out that Eminem is responsible for 50 Cent.

Note though that even though he is English, He still knew not to say say nigger in a any serious context.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 19 March 2009 - 07:14 PM

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#72 User is offline   Game Over Icon

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 02:07 PM

Our microcosmic view of the world around us should not be taken seriously, since its satirical and its the super ego that lets us come up with great gay or black jokes (pun intended).
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#73 User is offline   AdamM Icon

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 06:02 AM

Wait, so... er... what?
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#74 User is offline   Game Over Icon

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:41 PM

QUOTE (AdamM @ Mar 20 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wait, so... er... what?


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#75 User is offline   TheOrator Icon

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 09:21 PM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Mar 19 2009, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wouldn't say it's the "exact opposite" of my viewpoint. no. But since we don't live in a "truly tolerant society," then I dare say that whatever nonsense he was trying to describe would be a fantasy of some sort, yes. A white man needs to be very careful when calling a black man a nigger. But that's not even the comment he was making; he knew to cut the word off and make the use of the word at the end a self-depracating joke. A joke at his own expense, see, as though he were putting the lie to his claims not to be racist. His various comments about racism were directed at the "PC cops" who would try to assume that if he didn't like rap music and/or rap culture, he might be racist. Which is absurd, and he defended that point quite well, especially when he pointed out that Eminem is responsible for 50 Cent.

Note though that even though he is English, He still knew not to say say nigger in a any serious context.



He didn't cut the word off at the end to censor himself or the joke in any way. He did it to further the joke. I would argue that even if he did say the whole word--although it would be less funny--it would be justifiable because he was not being serious. This argument has never been, even if you try to make it such, that referring to Africans anywhere in the world as niggers in a serious way is all right, because the "serious" use would be racist. We don't use the barbarian seriously lest we insult our friends on the Barbary Coast, and we don't use the word lame seriously as we don't want to offend our one-legged friends. African-Americans, even, don't use the word nigger seriously, as can be demonstrated when the Martin Luther King, Jr character used the word in seriousness to great effect in one episode of The Boondocks. A black man can use it offensively just as a clueless Asian man can use it innocently.

I use the word 'bastard' to describe both friends of mine who take food during lunch and Jeffrey Dahmer. One has a much more serious connotation. I don't propose we go around calling each other bastards like Dahmer; but few would mind if we went around calling each other bastard cookie-thieves.
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nooooo
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