Chefelf.com Night Life: ZP - Anti Homosexual Slurs - Chefelf.com Night Life

Jump to content

  • (8 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »

ZP - Anti Homosexual Slurs Why the new trend on Zero Punctuation ? 03.04.2009

#1 User is offline   Mutant_Pie Icon

  • New Cop
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 04-March 09
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 04 March 2009 - 07:01 PM

I've been enjoying Zero Punctuation for several months now (maybe six?). Today's episode was the first that I noticed the narration included several anti-homosexual slurs. I hadn't caught the use of these before. Why the negative change? Hate on the poorly made/marketed games, but to use these hateful slurs on a group of people who get enough grief in this world is uncalled for. How about a retraction?

Mutant_Pie

P.S. gentle readers, before the flame war begins, please consider that this is anti-tribalistic request.
0

#2 User is offline   Chyld Icon

  • Ancient Monstrosity
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Crappy News Team
  • Posts: 5,770
  • Joined: 04-March 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Not Alaska
  • Country:United Kingdom

Posted 04 March 2009 - 07:25 PM

Several? Just ran through it once, and found one reference to Evil Spiderman beating up faggots, but I thought that was supposed to be implying how HURR THUMP STUFF GOOD thick the combat/webswinging balence was, rather than a round of gay-bashing, literally or otherwise. What did I miss? I'd like to think its a misunderstanding, but on reflection there is a rich vein of (hopefully ironic) homophobia running through ZP. See if you can spot it, kids. Which way am I supposed to be arguing again?
When you lose your calm, you feed your anger.

Less Is More v4
Now resigned to a readership of me, my cat and some fish
0

#3 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

  • Canada's Next Top Model.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 3,382
  • Joined: 01-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Your Dreams
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:Canada

Posted 05 March 2009 - 12:50 AM

Gay-bashing? Yikes; I thought the low point was when black-faced Spiderman says

"Oh lawdy ah is sho gonna rape some white wimmin."

Even with THAT out there, I need more tangible evidence of HATE literature. Simply making a joke at the expense of another's race, culture, gender, whatever, is not HATE. Not even legally, despite what the 90s tried to say.

By the way welcome to the forums, and good on your for trying to start a debate with your first post, mutant pie.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
0

#4 User is offline   Mutant_Pie Icon

  • New Cop
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 04-March 09
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 05 March 2009 - 01:07 AM

TY for the welcome, and thanks for the compliment.

I agree, the racial stereo typing crossed the line too. What's the line? (you might ask). Tribalism. Attempts at dehumanizing the "other" by use of labeling. Labels that then are imbued with emotional context, love or hate. Do you have any gay friends (that you know of)? Ask them if "faggot" is an offensive or hate filled word to them. What do you think the answer is?

BTW, any chance that the guy who named himself after a dice game will review these comments? I was hoping to have an impact on his life.

Mutant_Pie



QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Mar 4 2009, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gay-bashing? Yikes; I thought the low point was when black-faced Spiderman says

"Oh lawdy ah is sho gonna rape some white wimmin."

Even with THAT out there, I need more tangible evidence of HATE literature. Simply making a joke at the expense of another's race, culture, gender, whatever, is not HATE. Not even legally, despite what the 90s tried to say.

By the way welcome to the forums, and good on your for trying to start a debate with your first post, mutant pie.


0

#5 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

  • Canada's Next Top Model.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 3,382
  • Joined: 01-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Your Dreams
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:Canada

Posted 05 March 2009 - 01:25 AM

Yahtzee never reads these forums.

"Faggot" is a term that gay men would self-apply, say, 20 years ago. Dan Savage of Savage Love fame opened the letters in his colum, with "Hey faggot." Now the term of choice is the gender-neutral "queer."

I believe that all the fags I know are open about it.

If it's "tribalism" and "dehumanizing (???) the other" that you're worried about, Ben spends a lot more time picking on nerds than he ever could on faggots. And yeah, by def he is a nerd. So, humour targeting a group you're a member of is ok, and similar humour targeting any other group is HATE! This is so Chris Rock territory here.

Speaking of that negro looking to rape some white wimmins ... do you think there's a chance that Croshaw did NOT create the entire history of the American South, and that his one-liner is a joking reference to a period of history that might have existed even if he had decided not to review video games? Do you think that even if something gets a laugh, if there is a chance that someone out there might find it offensive you should never ever say it? I have my answer but I'm curious about yours.

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
0

#6 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

  • Canada's Next Top Model.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 3,382
  • Joined: 01-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Your Dreams
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:Canada

Posted 05 March 2009 - 02:16 AM

PS: I know Chyld mentioned that fag jokes are a staple at ZP, but maybe you should take a look at this:

http://www.escapistm...Guitar-Hero-III

Also, the review of "Army of Two" as I recall pushed that button a bit. The acid test I suppose is not whether you think in some PC liberal psudo-correct way that it might offend a gay person, but whether you are a gay person and for reasons related directly to that it offends you. It still wouldn't prove it qualified as hate speech, but at least it would mean something.

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
0

#7 User is offline   Thaluikhain Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 445
  • Joined: 11-May 07
  • Location:The Mysterious Cities of Gold
  • Country:Australia

Posted 05 March 2009 - 07:29 AM

QUOTE (Mutant_Pie @ Mar 5 2009, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree, the racial stereo typing crossed the line too. What's the line? (you might ask). Tribalism. Attempts at dehumanizing the "other" by use of labeling.


You don't think he was mocking the tired idea that black=evil?

QUOTE (Mutant_Pie @ Mar 5 2009, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BTW, any chance that the guy who named himself after a dice game will review these comments?


No.
0

#8 User is offline   Mutant_Pie Icon

  • New Cop
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 04-March 09
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 05 March 2009 - 09:33 AM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Mar 4 2009, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee never reads these forums.

"Faggot" is a term that gay men would self-apply, say, 20 years ago. Dan Savage of Savage Love fame opened the letters in his colum, with "Hey faggot." Now the term of choice is the gender-neutral "queer."

I believe that all the fags I know are open about it.

If it's "tribalism" and "dehumanizing (???) the other" that you're worried about, Ben spends a lot more time picking on nerds than he ever could on faggots. And yeah, by def he is a nerd. So, humour targeting a group you're a member of is ok, and similar humour targeting any other group is HATE! This is so Chris Rock territory here.

Speaking of that negro looking to rape some white wimmins ... do you think there's a chance that Croshaw did NOT create the entire history of the American South, and that his one-liner is a joking reference to a period of history that might have existed even if he had decided not to review video games? Do you think that even if something gets a laugh, if there is a chance that someone out there might find it offensive you should never ever say it? I have my answer but I'm curious about yours.


A hate message self directed is still a hate message. Even though a person of African descent might use the word "nigger" (or it's variants), it's still hateful. Nerd is a pretty mild and widely accepted version of this behavior, however, however mildly the intent to put down a group of people, that's still the intent.

Having written all of this, I have to admit that I have two groups of people that I'm prejudice against. People who drive gold colored cars, and people who drive Volkswagons. I'm working on changing that attitude, but it's hard. . . oh so hard.

Mutant_Pie

This post has been edited by Mutant_Pie: 05 March 2009 - 09:34 AM

0

#9 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

  • God damn it, Nappa.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,560
  • Joined: 26-December 05
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Three octaves down to your left.
  • Interests:Thermonuclear warfare and other pleasantries.
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 05 March 2009 - 09:42 AM

QUOTE (Mutant_Pie @ Mar 5 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Even though a person of African descent might use the word "nigger" (or it's variants), it's still hateful.

Yes, I'm sure that all those gangster rappers out there secretly retreat to a quiet little corner each day at five to practice some self-loathing.

Quote

Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
0

#10 User is offline   Ninja Duck Icon

  • Cheer up, emo duck.
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 1,912
  • Joined: 30-October 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Thrillsville
  • Country:United States

Posted 05 March 2009 - 03:14 PM

So, what would the line be? ZP guest starring Fred Phelps?
0

#11 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

  • Canada's Next Top Model.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 3,382
  • Joined: 01-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Your Dreams
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:Canada

Posted 05 March 2009 - 04:45 PM

Mutant_pie, if that's your real name, there is something wrong in your argument. "A hate message self-directed is still a hate mesage." So, we should stop the darkies from saying "nigger," for their own good? "Nerd is a pretty mild and widely accepted version of this behavior" ... um, "nigger" was pretty mild and widely accepted 100 years ago. Don't make it a good word for white folks to use. In fact, self-application of the word "nerd" took away a lot of its effect. but that's another conversation altogether.

Words are words. On their own there is only so much they can do. Most of the so-called "hate" words are necessary for a particular category of HUMOUR. You need to go a lot further to show that the use of words, even in an overt context of a put-down joke, necessarily implies HATE. Hate speech and hate crimes in general were defined in an effort to prevent things like racial discrimination and ethnic cleansing. They weren't created so that we could define a new race of people, the PC cops, who look for any form of "a blond walks into a bar" and decry it as hate speech. That was the 1990s, and we are so past that now. We done climbed down from them trees and is living in communities now.

That said, there's a good chance that yahtzee doesn't like faggots. And I'm not necessarily talking about homosexuals here, but faggots, since that's the word he used. And there's damn little society ought to do to make him like them. Not liking an entire category of people, however trivial or ill-informed your motive, is defended in your charter of rights and freedoms. Hate speech is something else and of course we will continue to challenge it.

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
0

#12 User is offline   David-kyo Icon

  • Goatboy
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,305
  • Joined: 18-June 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:None of your business.
  • Country:Hungary

Posted 05 March 2009 - 06:19 PM

Great, another topic about ZP not being politically correct enough. I thought it was incredible what some people are capable of taking offence at when some idiots were shitting bricks over the "being white enough to afford all three consoles"-remark, but this is getting exasperating pretty fast.

Those who are grinding their teeth over the issue should look up the words "irony" and "sarcasm" in a thesaurus.
0

#13 User is offline   Spann Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 699
  • Joined: 16-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • Country:United Kingdom

Posted 05 March 2009 - 06:32 PM

Oh God, this is like when Capcom first previewed Resident Evil 5.

Mutant, welcome to the forums 'n' all, but really, your argument is getting:

1) Thin

and

2) Old.

The point of ZP is edgy humour. If each video consisted of YZ fairly weighing up the pros and cons of the game and then presenting his findings in a fair, equal presentation, I wouldn't watch it.

Plus, it's entirely possible the faggots being beaten up are any of those mentioned here.
"There comes a time in every person's life when they should learn to shut up. It is called 'birth'."

-The League Against Tedium
0

#14 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

  • God damn it, Nappa.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,560
  • Joined: 26-December 05
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Three octaves down to your left.
  • Interests:Thermonuclear warfare and other pleasantries.
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 06 March 2009 - 02:48 AM

QUOTE (Said Wikipedia page)
Faggot (food), a British meatball commonly made of pork offal

I... nah, no, this speaks for itself, nothing else to add.

Quote

Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
0

#15 User is offline   AdamM Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 840
  • Joined: 03-January 06
  • Country:United Kingdom

Posted 08 March 2009 - 05:40 PM

Does it?

civilian: a bigoted statement, whether it is uttered by someone who is a member of the demographic it is directed at or not, is STILL bigoted. So either a word is offensive, or it isn't. You cannot say it is okay for a single group of people to hold court over language. It is the intent rather than the content of one's speech that attention should be paid to; it doesn't make any sense for a black dude to innocuously refer to another black dude as a nigger, yet a white dude offensively. If neither of them use the word with malice, both of them should recieve the same treatment. Either racial, sexual, etc. slurs are offensive, or they aren't; they cannot be both. So which do you think, civilian? Can we all go around calling each other faggots and niggers, or can't we?
0

  • (8 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »


Fast Reply

  • Decrease editor size
  • Increase editor size