[Toru-chan]

Say Microsoft to people, and they'll think buggy, unreliable, overpriced software you don't want rammed down your throat. But Microsoft says we've got it all wrong: They want us to think of them as purveyors of quality entertainment franchises. HALO, you see, is the New Star Wars:

We as a studio view Halo as our Star Wars," Halo franchise lead producer Jason Pace said in an interview with VideoGamer. "We want it to become that culturally pervasive."

Sure, Halo 3 had the "biggest day in U.S. entertainment history" when it launched, but "Star Wars" was an epochal, culture-defining moment that had, and continues to have, deep commercial and cultural presence on a global scale. For Pace, the potential for Halo to exist as that kind of mega-franchise certainly exists in the Halo property. "This is a vast universe, it extends back thousands and thousands of years, it's huge, many different worlds, races that we haven't even met yet," Pace said. "And so we view the future of the franchise in the same way that we would view any cross-cultural entertainment franchise property, which is we hope to tell many different stories in many different ways, capture the hearts and minds of new generations as we go forward."

Asked whether or not Halo could ever become as popular as Star Wars, Pace was more than optimistic. "Depending on how you measure it we have a very good shot. If you look at how the franchise has grown, and just the number of people who are aware of it, we're certainly comparable to the major cultural touchstones, or at least well on our way." He went on to cite the example of the success of the Halo novels as evidence of how the franchise is diversifying and branching out beyond the realm of videogames.

http://www.videogame...2009-10541.html
http://www.escapistm...-Next-Star-Wars

I've wondered about inventing a new franchise. Any author can do it, but the hard part seems to be the sort of resources required to churn out media to convince potential fanboys it's the next big thing. Pretty much every science fiction or fantasy book ever written is a potential franchise, but so few of them are ever tapped. Almost by definition, there must be thousands of stories better than anything the HALO dweebs can churn out. But humans are a herd animal so its brands rather than ideas that sell.

Fanboys galore:

http://www.xbox.com/...3biggestday.htm

Never played HALO. Played enough DOOM to last me a lifetime. This looks like "Pretty DOOM" to me, and I figure there are other things in life I can be doing. Am I missing anything?

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 04 February 2009 - 12:07 AM

[Just your average movie goer]

You're right about how easy it is to create a potential franchise like Star Wars. You set your story in an imaginary setting and then flesh it out. A good trick is to be fairly open-ended in its initial establishment. For instance, if you say your story is in a sector of the galaxy with three inhabitable worlds and it takes too damn long for anyone to travel outside that sector to consider the possibility of going to other worlds, then those three worlds will be it for the duration of your story. Mind you, if you put your imagination to it, you could do a hell of a lot with three worlds... but I'm just using it as an example here.

Moving back to the idea of creating your saga with its endless potential, it's a pretty simple process. Once you've established your imaginary setting, you can then flesh it out as much as you want to. The only thing you have to bear in mind as you do this is the need to watch out for inconsistencies. For example, if you've written about some large galactic war involving all the major powerhouses, then you can't later introduce another powerhouse that wasn't involved and say something like "they played an integral part in every major galactic war for the last two hundred years... I... er... just neglected to mention them when I was writing about the last one." The careful reader will pick up on such little things.

However, if you keep these simple things in mind and then write about your imaginary setting as if it were real, then very soon, you'll have a fully realised world/galaxy/universe at your fingertips. Actually, doing this is a really worthwhile thing even if no-one reads it but you. The best thing is that you can write stories that you want to read. However, whether you want to try to get published or not... I'd leave that up to you. Personally, life's too short to go down that road of insanity. I don't have the patience or perseverence for it but to each their own. If sending in a synopsis to an agent and waiting six months just to find out if they'd like to actually read the manuscript* sounds like your cup of tea, then I don't want to stop you.

*And then there'd be another long wait to see if they like it.... and another long wait as they send it to a publisher to see if they like it... I feel freakin' exhausted just thinking about it.

Anyway, I digress. Yes, I think there are many stories out there that have all the right ingredients to be a cultural phenomenon. However, I think the reason why it's difficult to recreate something like Star Wars is that our interests are so diverse these days and there's so much stuff out there competing for our attention. Back when Star Wars came out (I wasn't born then so I'm hypothesizing here), I imagine going to the cinema would have been a much bigger deal, more of a day out than something you just did at the spur of the moment because you happened to be walking past a Multiplex after stepping out of Burger King. Also, at that time, there really hadn't been anything like it. Here was a science fiction movie with incredible visual effects, a rollicking storyline (not like one of those dragging 1950s numbers), that was just an absolute feast for both the eyes and the ears which probably made more people want to be pilots than Top Gun ever would... and that's not even mentioning the sweeping orchestra soundtrack, which is still one of the greatest soundtracks ever. Even now, I get a tingle down my spine when I hear the opening fanfare.

I don't think it's possible to recreate the conditions of A.) having very little to distract the public's attention and B.) creating something that is completely unlike anything people have seen before.

The only real way you could compensate for this would be through the power of mass marketing. However, you can see that while this gets people's attention in the short run, it can't keep something in their hearts and minds indefinitely. I'll use your example of The Titanic from your subheading in this thread. When that came out, it was the highest grossing film ever. I seriously didn't think it deserved that attention. It was essentially a lavish soap opera set on a boat with characters who seemed more like two dimensional plot devices than actual people. However, this didn't seem to matter. The marketing machine told people that they had to like it, and just like it was with the Emperor's new clothes, nobody seemed to want to be the person to point out it sucked. Yours truly however played the role of the young boy who raised the objection, I'm pleased to say.

Now, while that was big in its day, I really don't hear people talk about it that much. I don't see great promotional displays for it in DVD shops. I don't hear people talking about renting it or buying it. As far as I'm aware, there are no Titanic video games to speak of. So for all that marketing, it's hardly become a cultural phenomenon, has it?

As for Halo, I think it's probably pretty cool if you're into the X-Box. I'm not, to be perfecly honest, but I've heard it's a really great game in many people's minds. However, I think if the creators of Halo even want to think about the possibility of their baby becoming a cultural phenomenon like Star Wars, then they've got to make a movie. Games are big, I agree, but not big enough. Despite what the developers think, there are a lot of people out there who would say "Halo? What's that?" However, you'd have to look pretty long and hard to find someone who had never heard of Star Wars.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 04 February 2009 - 06:03 AM

[Commodore]

Halo had its half-decade of glory in the gaming world, but it never penetrated mainstream popular culture the way Star Wars did. Heck, just the fact that the Halo team chooses to compare their game to Star Wars, rather than a more relevant example like Mario or Zelda, shows that they grossly overestimate the brilliance of their own product. Looking back on Halo now, I can't really think of anything truly revolutionary about it, unless you consider having a solid sci-fi plot and great multiplayer in an FPS game to be revolutionary.

Let's see this statement for what it is: a grandiose publicity stunt designed to whip up hype. Thing is, I don't think it's going to work. The franchise is already starting to give off a distinctly stale odor, and I doubt Halo Wars is going to make the same splash in the RTS genre that Halo made in the FPS genre.

[barend]

Halo's fun. That's all I have to say about it.

Why does everyone get all spastic about it? I really don't quite understand. I have Halo 3 and only really play the PVP stuff when friends come over. I used to be part of massive nights of 8-14 players all liquored up and swearing our tits off at each other and laughing and kicking and so on while we frustratingly murdered each other into the wee hours of the morning. But I don't get why people get so into it as such.



also, hey movie goer.

[Toru-chan]

Interesting post, JYAMG. I'm going to give that a shot; A space setting, and a fantasy one.

As for writing, yeah... not sure that's a viable career. I've read up on writing, understand plot devices, characterization and the theory behind it, but lack the gift for writing words that read beautifully. Was a scientific study that came out that said the most important determinant at how good people are at something, is practice alone. I haven't written since highschool and have well and truly lost it. From what I've read on writing, most writers are miserable souls whose work never sees the light of day. But an indy film at some stage? Now that could be fun, but for now just generating some imaginary worlds will be fun to begin with. I'll take your advice on board.

Will there ever be another Star Wars? Probably not. The world is so franchise-rich these days. Can HALO really be that good, like that crowd photo shows? Is it really so much better than anything else out there? By definition I'd say not, but the fact they did it (and Microsoft were able to sink what must have been a lot of money into making it) and generate publicity is what launched it. Star Wars on the other hand almost seems an accidental hit: right place, right time.

I've noticed the Anime approach to franchises, but they don't always work and don't follow the American model:

More often than not though some author comes up with a Manga; I like "Berserk." It gets picked up by a production house who makes an Anime or Live TV Miniseries out of it. That's an well done dark fantasy universe as good as Star Wars ever was, but outside of Japan you're not likely to ever hear of it. http://en.wikipedia....Berserk_(manga)

A more corporate approach is one like "Hack". There was no manga before it. Instead they seemed to assemble a crew of creative people, design the universe, design the characters and basically corporatize it. It began with "Hack sign"; a well told story about a kid playing a game who finds he can't log out. (Think about it) What followed was more TV series, video games and manga targeted at young kids and young adults. Got to say after the initial excellent series, it turned into absolute crap. But there's a business model. A pretty expensive one at that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_sign

If sending in a synopsis to an agent and waiting six months just to find out if they'd like to actually read the manuscript* sounds like your cup of tea, then I don't want to stop you.

Damn I wish I could write, but I agree it sounds like the path to insanity and madness. Again I'd say consider making an indy movie: far fewer people make movies than write novels, and it'd be nowhere as expensive to produce compared to a video game. movie. movie. movie.

One more thing: immersion. We seem to enjoy fiction most when we get sucked into it. Why do we get sucked into some imaginary words and not others? It's not just the content as you note, it's also what else the public herd is doing. Makes me a little sad there are some fiction worlds I really enjoy that other people don't know of and I've found even if I put them onto it, don't enjoy. Some things resonate with you that don't resonate with others. It's a bit like music: There's a lot of good music out there, but we pick a small selection that we define as matching our personal tastes, and stick to that.

I don't think it's possible to recreate the conditions of A.) having very little to distract the public's attention and B.) creating something that is completely unlike anything people have seen before.

Very good point. If all you're doing is imitating something else someone else has done, forget it. To make an impression, you need to do something different. Agree with your insights on Titanic: an okay couple of hours, but not worthy the adulation lashed upon it.

As for Halo, I think it's probably pretty cool if you're into the X-Box. I'm not, to be perfecly honest, but I've heard it's a really great game in many people's minds. However, I think if the creators of Halo even want to think about the possibility of their baby becoming a cultural phenomenon like Star Wars, then they've got to make a movie. Games are big, I agree, but not big enough. Despite what the developers think, there are a lot of people out there who would say "Halo? What's that?" However, you'd have to look pretty long and hard to find someone who had never heard of Star Wars.

I will check it out now just to see what the fuss is about. But I've done that before: bought Command and Conquer. Played it for a few hours and wondered what the hell everyone was so excited about. It wasn't the first RTS game, so I didn't see anything new to get excited about. On the other hand at the time DOOM was at the time a big social phenomena. That was new (well, "Wolfenstein Improved" really), addictive and somewhat immersive too. I can understand the appeal of DOOM. May HALO is Generation Me's DOOM?

Halo had its half-decade of glory in the gaming world, but it never penetrated mainstream popular culture the way Star Wars did.

Heck. Master Chief even looks like the player in DOOM. I googled around and found they did release some novels and stuff, "best selling" (whatever the hell that means), but I never heard of it. As for the film, that's in "Development Hell".

Blomkamp has declared the project dead, Peter Jackson says the film will still be made. Blomkamp commented the Master Chief worked from a video gamer's perspective, but dramatically does not hold much weight because of his faceless nature. The character as depicted in the film would have been "the most important supporting cast member". Instead, "other characters around him did most of the emotional heavy lifting", with their story exploring their perception of the Master Chief. http://en.wikipedia....iki/Halo_(film)

Doesn't sound too promising...

These things run their course anyway. Look at DOOM. It spawned some novels (apparently crappy) and by DOOM III was very much on the nose (I only played it for a few hours). The movie. Egads. They replaced the politically-incorrect "Hell" theme with another bloody "Virus".

Halo's fun. That's all I have to say about it. Why does everyone get all spastic about it? I really don't quite understand. I have Halo 3 and only really play the PVP stuff when friends come over.

It's sounding to me more and more like that Herd-mentality that humans are so famous for.

Xibling Drorg, out.

[Just your average movie goer]

Hey all. And a hello to you too, Barend. I hardly recognised you without your Bender avatar.

Commodore, regarding Halo's popularity, from what I've heard, it's down to the quality of the game's design more than any notion that it's revolutionary. Some claim it is a 100% bug-free game. Since some of the games I play have more bugs than you can poke a stick at, I can understand its appeal on that level at least.

And Toru-Chan, regarding writing, I don't want to put anyone off it. I think it's great. I just don't recommend the publishing route unless you've got the patience of a Taoist monk. Also, there are some very fine authors out there who, despite the fact that their books are published, still need to hold down day-jobs to keep the wolf from the door... so it makes me wonder how anyone can stand the frustration long enough to see their books go into print. However, I'm glad some people are prepared to go through all that crap because while publishing houses generally churn out utter shite, they occasionally release books that I can enjoy as well.

As for the big question, "Will there be another Star Wars?"... probably not in the terms we've discussed here. However, I think we're long overdue for another rollicking space opera. And you never know. When we finally get one, even if it doesn't change the cultural landscape as much, it could well be a much cooler movie.

I will check it out now just to see what the fuss is about. But I've done that before: bought Command and Conquer. Played it for a few hours and wondered what the hell everyone was so excited about.

I can't resist... I know we shouldn't kick things when they're down but I had the exact same experience with Battlefront II.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 07 February 2009 - 10:20 AM

[barend]

I can't resist... I know we shouldn't kick things when they're down but I had the exact same experience with Battlefront II.

Wait, if Battlefront 2 is the game I'm thinking of, then you need to go to the 'instant action' menu and go gungan hunting on naboo or ewok hunting on endor or get a friend to go mos eisley street war with sandpeople -v- jawas

[Toru-chan]

I took HALO for a spin around the block. Meh. It's "Pretty DOOM".

Maybe if I played it for longer, but from what I could see it's just another FPS. Nicely made, pretty graphics and all, but I've played enough DOOM to last me a lifetime. No skill either. It's a button masher.

Culturally: It smelled like a rip off of "Aliens", which was in turn a rip-off of "Starship Troopers" (which was just a book at that stage). Another "Star Wars"? No. Another "Aliens"? Maybe.

As for Master Chief being a cultural icon, that I definitely don't get. To me Master Chief = Green Plastic Suit. I don't get why he is so "Cool". I do figure that every time Bill Gates uses the word "Cool" it becomes a bit more uncool. Perhaps Master Chief should stop hanging out with the wrong kind of people, like John "Give me a rifle and parachute me into Baghdad" Howard? This does not make you cool:

HALO's producers might see huge sales numbers, but that's for game units. Coke might be a popular softdrink, but if they figured that popularity would translate into sales of a Coke Sedan, they'd be in for a rude shock.

you need to go to the 'instant action' menu

A question I always ask of Battlefront: "Why does it take so long to get into 'Instant Action'?"

[barend]

A question I always ask of Battlefront: "Why does it take so long to get into 'Instant Action'?"

When I was 10 I went to the supermarket and purchased a packet of "Instant Lasagne" off the shelf. When I got home it was a just a bunch of hard pasta rectangles in the box. I was both furious and devastated.

I have never got over this event.





Never.

[Toru-chan]

When I was 10 I went to the supermarket and purchased a packet of "Instant Lasagne" off the shelf. When I got home it was a just a bunch of hard pasta rectangles in the box. I was both furious and devastated. I have never got over this event. Never.

I laughed a lot, but I feel bad for laughing at another man's childhood pain. I blame HALO.

[Just your average movie goer]

A question I always ask of Battlefront: "Why does it take so long to get into 'Instant Action'?"

When I was 10 I went to the supermarket and purchased a packet of "Instant Lasagne" off the shelf.

Hm... instant... a slightly tenuous connection there but still, I was nonetheless affected by your tale of childhood tragedy.

Wait, if Battlefront 2 is the game I'm thinking of, then you need to go to the 'instant action' menu and go gungan hunting on naboo or ewok hunting on endor or get a friend to go mos eisley street war with sandpeople -v- jawas

Yeah, I tried that but it was very disappointing. The only option for fighting Gungans was to be a droid. Also, the gungans had weapons that enabled them to fight back. It wasn't the fun work-off-tension mode I had thought it would be. And when I tried ewok hunting, I could only be a sniper. Where's the fun in that? Since it's not exactly serious combat, why not give us the option of using shock troopers and blasting them with rockets?

For more details on why we hate Battlefront II, see Battlefront 1 & 2 and Battlefront III: Revenge of the Ewoks respectively. To put it mildly, we pulled no punches.

As for your question, Toru Chan regarding Battlefront:

"Why does it take so long to get into 'Instant Action'?"

I don't know what the deal is with the extra long loading times. If anything, they should be shorter than the campaign because they don't have to bring up the screen where you select a planet to attack.

Still though, I think it's worth the wait. I've decided that Instant Action is better than any of the conquer modes. You can attack all the planets of your choice and skip maps you're not interested in. Also, you get rid of all the bonuses... because while the bonuses sound cool in theory, the computer cheats like you wouldn't believe and awards itself bonuses that you've taken away from them. It happens all the time. I'd take Rhen Var, denying them their sensor jamming. I'd take Naboo, denying them their bacta tanks and I'd take Tatooine to take away the jedi hero bonus. Yet, after I'd done all that, I'd notice that none of the rebels would show up on my sensors and that when I shot them, they'd have that blue glow of someone using bacta serum. The only restraint the computer showed in its cheating was stopping short of using a jedi hero... but that's the only instance. Man, when I think about it, I've seen many games where the computer game cheats* but I think Battlefront takes the cake. From enemies firing turrets in directions they cannot possibly aim at, enemies spawning in your own command posts and the computer occasionally just flat out refusing to acknowledge that you hit one of its AI soldiers when you know you've got them fair and square**, Battlefront's got it all.

*Check out The Computer is a Cheating Bastard for a laugh. They cover this topic very well. For instance, if you've ever played Nintendo Racing Games, I'm sure you'll be familiar with a lot of the dirty tricks they mention.

**And when this happens, you've usually got them fair and square three or four times.

Well that's one thing I can say about Battlefront II at least. It's very open about its cheating by making all its dirty tricks part of the game play. It says "Yep. I'm just going to give you 20 guys to help you out but as for myself, I'm going to have unlimited reinforcements. Ha ha!"

However, when you get right down to it, being honest about ruining game play isn't really much of a positive.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 09 February 2009 - 07:01 AM

[Toru-chan]

For once I'd like to see a game that has real(ish) squad combat. In BF and HALO, it's every man/monster for themselves.

BTW noticed in HALO: The marine sergeant. He's a direct ripoff of the marine sergeant in ALIENS. Plus you seem to spend a lot of time wandering around mazes. n n n s e e w n e n n n w w e e n n n e e n w n e e. Hours of entertainment there.

As for your question, Toru Chan regarding Battlefront: I don't know what the deal is with the extra long loading times. If anything, they should be shorter than the campaign because they don't have to bring up the screen where you select a planet to attack.

It's all the screens you have to go through to get there, and then still have to answer redundant questions like "Hoth? With Rebels or with Roger-Roger Droids?" And why the delays? When it's showing us the scorecard for the last game, why not start loading the next one so it's ready to go?

For Ewok hunting, I recommend BF1 on one of those speeders. I mow the little bastards down.

And when I tried ewok hunting, I could only be a sniper. Where's the fun in that? Since it's not exactly serious combat, why not give us the option of using shock troopers and blasting them with rockets?

I never played it long enough to discover that. Wow. That's serious fail.

[barend]

killing in the walkers was awesome.

BAttlefront 1 was okay... a friend of mine hired it and brought it over. i think we finished it before the pizza arrived. BF2 had so much more playability.

Although the Tantive 4 storming took so many attempts.

I learned there and then that you shouldn't run with a lightsabre.

This post has been edited by barend: 10 February 2009 - 06:16 PM