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J M Goes to Egypt in ten days

#1 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 02:20 AM

So yeah, I'm going to Egypt. Possibly Gaza if I can to try to help out the Palestinians there. I'm very quickly learning Arabic and trying to figure out what the hell I can do. Has anyone been? I'm going to have around 1300 dollars to spend for 10 days. Does this sound about right to any of our international travelers?

Also, for British fans (Read: Chyld) I'll be at London Heathrow for like three hours, so you can bask in my closer than usual proximity.

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#2 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:21 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 11 2009, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So yeah, I'm going to Egypt. Possibly Gaza if I can to try to help out the Palestinians there. I'm very quickly learning Arabic and trying to figure out what the hell I can do. Has anyone been? I'm going to have around 1300 dollars to spend for 10 days. Does this sound about right to any of our international travelers?

Also, for British fans (Read: Chyld) I'll be at London Heathrow for like three hours, so you can bask in my closer than usual proximity.

1300 excluding or including the fare for the flights? Ah well, either way should be more than enough if you're not taking the scenic routes, but trying to get closer to Gaza might drain a bit more, depending on your channels.
Gaza's currency is the Israeli Shekel, and they're currently being cut off from the fresh-money-cycle so chances are that you won't get much with your money once you're there. Better stick to the humanitarian organizations that are already active in the region.

As for Egypt: Don't drink the tap water or eat the regionally grown salads or some of the stuff that they sell on the streets there just like that, there's a lot of bacteria that the inhabitants of that region are naturally immune to but lots of travelers get lots of troubles if they don't pay attention here and there.
Haggle.
Haggle a lot. It's common courtesy.

As for what you can do: Stay away from the fighting, stay away from people shouting and stick to the people you can actually talk to. Or shout along with the unreasonable fanatics, but don't expect much coming from that.

Both people, Israeli and Palestinians have a lot in common, which is their stubbornness and sometimes questionable patriotism, so if you want to change things, then you'll have to first mind your words and try not to offend their superficial hatred and prejudice of each other and slowly get closer to the underlying issues.

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Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
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#3 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:04 AM

Airfare is well paid for (800 dollars round trip. I rock!), the thirteen hundred is just for my time there. I'm thinking of maybe seeing hte pyramids or something if I have time, but it's mostly an activist mission. I'd feel guilty being a tourist while Gaza burned. I've heard that haggling is expected, that should be interesting. The place really does sound like a quite nice country.

My plan at present is to take a bus from Cairo to Rafah and then just hang out there for at least a week or so trying to get into Gaza with other aid parties. A lot of doctors and such are hanging out, maybe I can get a first aid class at the very least. I doubt Mubarak will open the border, but if he does I want to be there.

As for the whole peace thing, I have no intention of helping anyone work out any differences. I just want to keep some Palestinians from dying and wish them best of luck with raining death on Sderot and such. I would posit that, if it can be avoided, the word peace, or its arabic equivalent amn, will not leave my mouth the whole time I'm there. Peace in the Western sense just means defeat for the Palestinians, and as such I can definatively say I am against peace and in support of the resistance. Maybe attend a stone throwing, I've always wanted to do that.

In addition to throwing shit at Zionist storm troopers, I would like to try some Falafel and Koshar while I'm over there, maybe buy some spices.

I know Gaza's currency situation is effed and they dont generally have a lot of food either with the blockade, so not sure how that would work out, but the one thing about people with nothing is that they're always willing to share, so I'm sure I can get by somehow and maybe bring some food over the border to offer.

you seem very familiar with the region, have you been before?

The health advice is definately helpful, I know with most non american or european countries tap water is to be avoided. Hell, I lived in Baltimore for a while so I know about avoiding tap water.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 11 January 2009 - 05:11 AM

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#4 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:17 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 11 2009, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've heard that haggling is expected, that should be interesting.

It certainly is! And it's not just expected, it's really their way to get to know each other, most of those haggling sessions were accompanied by so much laughter, even if the tone sometimes turned really serious. Most tourists can't be bothered or just do it "because it's expected" - screw that, do it and have some fun while doing it, those are real people that you're talking to and not some machines, it's really worth it.

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 11 2009, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for the whole peace thing, I have no intention of helping anyone work out any differences. I just want to keep some Palestinians from dying and wish them best of luck with raining death on Sderot and such.

... which will only result in more civilian deaths, thanks a lot. You're a great help to the cause.
I don't care about the righteousness or moral justifications of either side, thing simply is: One side clearly has the upper hand, and if you go against them then you don't do much apart from indirectly killing your own people before you bite the dust yourself.
You fight when it's worth it and when you know you can win. This situation is only madness.
Humanity survives because of its flexibility and adaptability. If you can't work it out, then work your way around it. This will become especially important in a few years when the effects of global warming and such really kick in, but I don't see much hope if we stick to our stupid stubbornness and insistence on our right to reap the most and fight amongst each other all the time.

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 11 2009, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In addition to throwing shit at Zionist storm troopers...

Baaaaaaaaaaaad idea...

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 11 2009, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
you seem very familiar with the region, have you been before?

I've been to Israel, haggled with some Arabs in Jerusalem and talked to some Palestinians and a few Israeli soldiers, they're mostly just regular people with strong opinions and sometimes a lack of creative thinking - so just like the rest of us.
The health advice comes from a friend of mine who had a girlfriend in Egypt and used to work as a doctor in a hospital over there for a few months each year to be close to her before the relationship fell apart. He was mostly taking care of tourists because he spoke four languages fluently, so he had a lot of stories to tell about that.

This post has been edited by Gobbler: 11 January 2009 - 05:24 AM

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Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
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#5 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 01:19 PM

Attend a stone throwing? What is that, exactly? The only thing I can think of is a "stoning," where a crowd throws rocks at someone till their dead, and surely you can't be looking forward to that. :-P

Anyway, whether I agree with your viewpoint or not it's awesome that you get to do something cool like this - good luck, and be safe!
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#6 User is offline   Chyld Icon

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 11 2009, 07:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, for British fans (Read: Chyld) I'll be at London Heathrow for like three hours, so you can bask in my closer than usual proximity.

When you thinking of doing your trip, since at the moment my funds are "a change jar, and... oh damnit, they don't pay you for recycling cans in this country". A bit later in the year, and hell yeah pint in Heathrow!
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#7 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:18 AM

For tourism, you may have enough money if you stay out of the big hotels. If you're planning to get into potential trouble, I would recommend that you have a bankroll of at least $25000. Carry US dollars in your pocket but also have traveler's cheques. Keep your Passport in a sealed pocket and never take it out to show to anyone who isn't legally able to compel you to do so, unless you are receive a credible threat of violence.

Risking controversy, I'd say your best bet if you want to be of any help to anyone is to find an organization there that is helping people and to join it. Preferable one run by Americans who speak English. Maybe the Red Cross? If you can drive a stick that will probably help. Another useful skill would certainly be first aid at the "First Responder" level; I don't know what they call that in the US. If your plan is to go down there and in a fit of righteous anger to physically attack soldiers, perhaps you should research the legal ramifications of such a thing. In a foreign country you will be subject to foreign laws, and you may not have much help from the State Department if they have a non-interference policy about unprovoked assault. You can of course go in with a "don't care" policy regarding ramifications, but a few weeks into your jail term you'll be wishing you had that bankroll in reserve. Keep some phone numbers with you of people back home you can hit up if you're not that flush.

I think to be honest a great thing to do would be to carry a small camera with a fast shutter and a lot of megapixels. Take a lot of photos and hopefully catch something that will be useful back home. At best you'll get something useful and at worst you'll make some money. Carry a lot of memory cards though because there's a chance someone's going to steal or destroy your camera and you don't want to lose all of your pictures in one go. Depending on the type of trouble you may be planning, frequent uploads might be a good idea, so that if you can't go back to your hotel room, yadda yadda yadda.

I don't know; I've never done what you're planning, so this is all off the top of my head.

PS: Absolutely plan to do the whole thing sober and drug-free.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#8 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 07:14 AM

QUOTE (Chyld @ Jan 11 2009, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When you thinking of doing your trip, since at the moment my funds are "a change jar, and... oh damnit, they don't pay you for recycling cans in this country". A bit later in the year, and hell yeah pint in Heathrow!

If it's at a time of year where when I'm actually near Heathrow I'll be coming along for a pint too biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 12 January 2009 - 07:15 AM

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#9 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 04:16 AM

Don't know if I mentioned my dates, but I'm shipping out the 19th at dusk.

Spoon - A stone throwing is a tradition usually kept up by non militant Palestinian youths who will find Israeli storm troopers and throw stones at them in hopes of causing injury.

Civ - At the very least I intend to take some pictures, and the red cross red crescent is definately on my list of groups to talk to. However, if I end up in any sort of fighting, and given the Israeli's merciless record, capture is obviously out of the question. I'll carry a knife or something I suppose.

I'm plotting to bring some cheap disposable cameras, its hard to get the film out of those, and it'll look extraordinarily touristy. I hear Joe The Plumber is wandering around over there being a fuckmook, so I'm sure if anyone does ask I can try a dumb American act.

Pint People - If I have a stop over in London for some reason (I am flying BMI, so I could be stuck for a bit) we should get in touch.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 13 January 2009 - 04:17 AM

Quote

I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#10 User is offline   Chyld Icon

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 06:32 AM

The 19th? Bad timing there, I'm away at the other end of the country at that point. Perhaps another day...
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#11 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:31 AM

Yeah... that's a shame... me and Chyld will both up north getting pissed.
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#12 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 11:45 PM

For the Brits: returning on the night of Feb 1st, so something might be arranged then.

For Gobbler: I missed this when I first saw it, but must make mention now:

QUOTE
You fight when it's worth it and when you know you can win.


Or, when you have no choice because if you once give in to genocide and terrorism it will break your civilization forever like it did the Indians, and the very best hope you have is to rise up as a minor part of the very thing you aught to have destroyed.

QUOTE
This situation is only madness.


Madness?


THIS




IS




GAZA!!!

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 17 January 2009 - 11:46 PM

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#13 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 08:30 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 18 2009, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or, when you have no choice because if you once give in to genocide and terrorism it will break your civilization forever like it did the Indians, and the very best hope you have is to rise up as a minor part of the very thing you aught to have destroyed.

I'd agree if the situation really was that desperate, but it simply isn't. If you're standing with your family behind your back, and a big wall behind their backs, then you might very well fight out of desperation. If not, then you should retreat or stand down to protect your family and wait for things like change, better times or more people to support your cause until you're able to form a real resistance. A few thousand years ago this thinking led to the diaspora of the Jewish people, and look how extinct they are today.

The stuff about retaining your culture is sweet, but a bit far away from reality. Culture is subject to evolution, each one is a blend of a few other ones and can adapt to new influences. Native American culture isn't dead, it just had to go with the times - because it might be a romantic thought to keep on living in a tipi, but not a realistic one, as history has proven.

And besides, the Israeli culture is way older and a lot more colourful than the Palestinian one - isn't that worth protecting too by your logic?

This post has been edited by Gobbler: 18 January 2009 - 08:34 AM

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Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
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#14 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 04:16 PM

The Palestinians have a real resistance and it can succeed if Western governments move to decriminalize Hamas and end the blockade. I am very confident in, and I turn all my hopes, to the defeat of Israel by the workers of Palestine and the rest of the world. This is not merely their problem. Oppression anywhere is a threat to people everywhere and we must all stand in solidarity. There is no where for them to retreat to considering that the Zionists and class traitors control the borders, that is why it is absurdist to accuse the resistance of using human shields.

QUOTE
The stuff about retaining your culture is sweet, but a bit far away from reality. Culture is subject to evolution, each one is a blend of a few other ones and can adapt to new influences. Native American culture isn't dead, it just had to go with the times - because it might be a romantic thought to keep on living in a tipi, but not a realistic one, as history has proven.


The Palestinian culture is far from archaic, and a loss of cultural power generally follows a loss of political and social power. By resisting Zionist oppression Hamas swept the Gaza strip of settlers. A while longer and they shall sweep all of occupied Palestine of the settlers from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

As for Hebrew culture, they have clearly been able to gain political power in the United States, and so they should be fine there. Perhaps after the next great war the US government will set aside another parcel of stolen land for them to reign over in tyranny, but I should hope not.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#15 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 18 2009, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Palestinians have a real resistance and it can succeed if Western governments move to decriminalize Hamas and end the blockade.

Wrong and wrong.
First, a real resistance should have some kind of plan if it hopes to succeed - all Hamas has is "We kill them. They kill us. We go to Allah as martyrs. The more of us suffer, the better for our movement. We keep firing, they keep restricting our resources, our whole infrastructure. Our people will become desperate, good for us.".
And I guess you already know about this, but Quassam rockets are a very inadequate weapon - if firing them blindly is all there is to their resistance, then that's one extremely lousy resistance, no matter how you want look at it.
Second, if Western governments move to deciminalize Hamas and end the blockade? Now that's what I call realistic thinking.

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 18 2009, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am very confident in, and I turn all my hopes, to the defeat of Israel by the workers of Palestine and the rest of the world.

Now where does the "working class movement" thing fit into this? This is about radical fanatics who shoot at each other, not some fight between capitalism and communism.
But do go ahead and wave a red flag as you attempt to unionize the Palestinian workers, that should bring back some laughter into these desperate times.

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 18 2009, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is not merely their problem. Oppression anywhere is a threat to people everywhere and we must all stand in solidarity. There is no where for them to retreat to considering that the Zionists and class traitors control the borders, that is why it is absurdist to accuse the resistance of using human shields.

So you want to free one people and oppress another one in return? Sounds like you're going to have to switch sides afterward.

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 18 2009, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for Hebrew culture, they have clearly been able to gain political power in the United States, and so they should be fine there.

By the sound of it, there should be lots of place for the Palestinians in other Arab states as well, they all seem very solidary. But oh, no wait, there already is a place where they could live, provided they stop firing rockets! How convenient!
Seriously now, what you said is very ignorant, especially since you're the one who holds culture and its need for a secure region so dear. Israeli culture consists of way more than what the Jewish communities in the US have to offer, but never mind about that, like I said, this is no real argument.

This post has been edited by Gobbler: 18 January 2009 - 04:55 PM

Quote

Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
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