[J m HofMarN]

http://www.msnbc.msn...224134#28224134

I find this to be particularly hilarious because of the symbolism. When the war began early in Bush's first term there were images of happy Iraqis throwing shoes at a topped statue of Saddam. Later Saddam was captured and hung after a show trial. Now, near the hopeful end of the war and Bush's regime, happy Iraqis are throwing shoes at him, and I can only hope that is a prelude to an eventual trial and hanging.

Iraqi shoe thrower, you are a friend of mine. Solidarity, brother!

[Gobbler]

Amazing how he dodged that one. Spider sense at work, I'm sure.

[J m HofMarN]

Well, in explanation, allow me to point out that he is president Bush. He expects to have shit thrown at him. Barack Obama just walks around smiling and hoping no one throws anything at him, or pretends to be a plumber at him, and it usually works. That's the power of hope!

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 15 December 2008 - 05:04 AM

[TheOrator]

Bush has a point. No such a thing would have flown in old Iraq. He also had some somewhat witty comments about it.

[TruJade]

Witty comments, by Bush?
im sure it was an accident

a horrible accident
much like his conception

HI-YO
lol

[Dr Lecter]

Yeah... I mean in old Iraq, he would be beaten half to death, questioned for hours on end, and then either be executed or sent to a prison for life without trial... That totally doesn't happen in America...

If I was Bush's bodyguard, I would have shot him straight away. But I guess he is the president...

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 16 December 2008 - 06:19 AM

[Otal Nimrodi]

If I was Bush's bodyguard, I would have shot him straight away.

Pronoun ambiguity FTW.

[J m HofMarN]

In old Iraq, there weren't daily car bombings, blackouts, kidnappings, etc. So saying that just because people have the right to throw shoes at people without being immediately executed, Iraq is a better place, does not make sense. Sure, Bush hasn't ordered this guy killed, but he sure had Saddam and his friends executed, not to mention signing the death warrants of 4000 Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. In my opinion, the guy should have thrown some kind of steel toed doom boots.

[Gobbler]

Looky what the news brought in today.

Roughly translated, the manufacturer of those shoes is receiving more orders than ever.

Not so roughly translated:

Shoe-Throw of Bagdad (yes, it sounds awkward in German too)
The business of his life

The Iraqui journalist, who threw a shoe at US-president Bush, will have to expect 15 years of imprisonment. But perhaps the fact that he is a celebrated hero in the eyes of many US-critics in the Arabian world will comfort him. However, the merriest person should be the Turkish manufacturer of the thrown model, for he's making the business of his life.

The video might not be that interesting to you, but the manufacturer himself is having a few words there.

"I congratulate the shoe-thrower. It's as if it wasn't him who threw the shoe, but me. We're all very happy about his deed."

This post has been edited by Gobbler: 24 December 2008 - 04:37 AM

[TheOrator]

In old Iraq, there weren't daily car bombings, blackouts, kidnappings, etc. So saying that just because people have the right to throw shoes at people without being immediately executed, Iraq is a better place, does not make sense. Sure, Bush hasn't ordered this guy killed, but he sure had Saddam and his friends executed, not to mention signing the death warrants of 4000 Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. In my opinion, the guy should have thrown some kind of steel toed doom boots.

There also weren't car bombings in Auschwitz. Doesn't mean it's not a worse place. Besides, you make it sound like car bombings are the inevitable result of democracy in Iraq. The unrest won't last forever. That shoe will.

[J m HofMarN]

Gobbler - Damn........ now I want a pair.

Orator - American imposed democracy is not democracy. You cannot impose democracy on people. And I would not call this unrest. It's an unending state of war brought on by Bush, and a lot of people have been directly killed or displaced by his troops. Oh, and by the by, an Iraqi judge has called for an investigation into the torture of this hero, who now faces fifteen years in prison for a shoe.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 25 December 2008 - 01:23 PM

[TheOrator]

See, I was speaking in literal terms. It is demonstrably democracy and and it is denotatively unrest.

Also, why specify "American-imposed" democracy?

Also, "for a shoe" is inaccurate. He faces fifteen years in prison for attempting to assault a foreign dignitary with a nuclear arsenal. That's like saying Timothy McVeigh was put to death "for some manure," or that Charles Manson was put in prison "for having some friends." Fifteen seems like way too much, I'd think, but you're still making it out to seem like it wasn't even a crime. Like if you did that to him in America you wouldn't be busted, too.

[Otal Nimrodi]

Alright, yes. Yes. Its clear that this guy didn't like Bush. And nobody is gonna say that nobody in Iraq dislikes Bush.

Really, what's so heroic about throwing your shoe about a guy?

I agree with him on the whole "Bush is bad" thing... But throwing a shoe at the guy doesn't make you a hero, and the fact that I agree doesn't mean I think he should be able to get away with it.

This post has been edited by Otal Nimrodi: 25 December 2008 - 06:28 PM

[J m HofMarN]

If there were more people with this guy's guts, we wouldn't have to deal with scum like Bush. Americans need to follow his example, take a lesson here in personal courage and national dignity. The symbol of our nation's government is having shoes lobbed at him by other peoples representatives. Why is it up to the other peoples of the world to do this? Why are we not taking the initiative?

As for calling it democracy, I disagree. The people of Iraq are in a state of war brought on without a vote of either the defending nor the aggressing nation. The Iraqi government is largely propped up by the US' financial and military aid and, therefore, as a dependent territory, there are certain things that that government cannot do even should the people will it. How can a democracy exist minus sovereignty and amid a state of war?

Fuck a foreign "dignitary". Bush deserves far worse than shoes. If having shoes thrown at him is the least taste of justice he gets, I would consider that man unfairly lucky. If I were the judge, I would give this man a medal and a new pair of shoes before sending him upon his merry way. Also, you take issue with my terming him a hero, but apparently missed the part in the very same sentence where I pointed out that a judge had ordered an inquiry into him being tortured.(which would explain his confession, sudden rescinding of his actions, and speedy pleading for a pardon)

As for the matter that diplomats should be treated well, bullshit. Bush had Hugo Chavez imprisoned briefly by a military coup, forcing him to sign bogus abdication papers. He also had the leader of Iraq lynched. This man has no respect for the leaders of other nations, and therefore should get no special treatment simply because he will be holding power for 26 more days. A leader should ask for no sort of special treatment. It could be argued that an assault on Bush is an assault on America's dignity, but the man has left us precious little.

But throwing a shoe at the guy doesn't make you a hero, and the fact that I agree doesn't mean I think he should be able to get away with it.

This lone act is more than anyone else has done. Maybe it's the begining of something greater. I think its safe to say that most Arabs would be overjoyed at the change to sling a shoe at Bush, this man spoke for his people, and for the workers of the world.

It saddens me that so many in America are not ready to celebrate this event and call for more like it. We should see it as an example, not a crime. Bush killed 4000 of us and has imprisoned or tortured many more. I am for retribution. He should be tried. The people of the world have already found him guilty, this is merely more proof of that. It is undemocratic to defend the imprisonment of men simply for showing the peoples' will.

I just hope the will of the American people will catch up to that of others soon.

[TheOrator]

I don't care whether it was morally a crime. It was legally a crime. And yes, the shoe was more than anyone else did, but so was John Wilkes Booth's bullet. You can't just decide when it is and is not right to use violence against someone. Everyone deserves equal treatment.

As for saying that it was a crime to assault a foreign dignitary, I was speaking from their perspective. Bush is an important dude to them. They know he likes to fight wars with him. Let's say you finally got this bastard to pull out of your country, and then some loony runs up and attacks him with a shoe? We're lucky Bush reacted so well. He could have used this as proof that more work needs to be done to quell insurgency and stayed there even longer.