[Spoon Poetic]

Pssssh... I disagree! The first 5 TOS movies were pretty great. :-P In a quirky kind of way, in just the same way the TOS episodes are great. First Contact was pretty good, too.

Well, they're not like, great literary works, but in an if-you-like-Star-Trek kind of way... They are enjoyable, anyway.

[civilian_number_two]

FIRST CONTACT was the smartest and most cynical of all the TNG films. The writers made two stories, an A story about conflict with Borg, and a B story about an away team trying to convince a scientist that his rocket can fly. The A story only had one flaw, in that they wrote in a new character for Picard to tell his feelings to, when Beverly Crusher was ideal for that role (it would have advanced their storyline as well). The best thing about the good A story/ stupid B story is that the wroiters took all of the characters that everyone likes and kept them for the A, and they took all of the characters that everybody hates and put them in the B.

Ultimately the only TNG movie that has any bits in it that I like. And it is cynical writing at its best, except for that Alfre Woodard character.

Of the TOS movies, only WRATH OF KHAN (IMO) was any good. The first movie was too slow, wasting long shots on loving closeups up the Enterprise hull, and ultimely killing a lot of time of new characters that it only intended to kill off. The films that followed were more streamlined.

SEARCH FOR SPOCK was terrible because it undermined the great dramatic ending of KHAN. Don't make a big deal about killing off an important character if you can just bring him back later.

The one with the whales was ok in that comedy episode way, I suppose. I can't agree with the majority of TREK semi-fans that it was the bestof them. However I will say that whenever talking with a serious TREK fan, because it makes them nuts.

The fifth one was horrible. They search for God? Spock has a brother and his excuse for not telling anyone about it is the same as Stan Laurel's for not telling Ollie that there was a piano hanging over his head: "You never asked me." And the punchline of the movie is a close reading of the lyrics to "row row row your boat." Yikes.

UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY I liked ok, except they pussied out again by writing a new character to commit the crime they'd planned for Saavik. The teary resolution where Spock has to turn his back on a beloved student is missing any history (remember he'd had sex with Saavik, and likely had SOME feelings for her; this Kim Catrall character was written in just for that show).

So ... in the end, the only one I really liked was KHAN.

[Spoon Poetic]

The Search for Spock definitely hurts Warth of Kahn, but I still enjoy the movie. It's just a lot of fun. The whale one is just great, but only because it was so silly. Same with the God one. I mean, like I said - they aren't great literary works. But they're enjoyable. The 6th TOS movie, I found rather stale. Too Cold War and just... meh.

And all the other movies, aside from First Contact, aren't even enjoyable. Well, Generations is okay, some parts of it, I guess. There were some themes in it that were pretty good, just underdeveloped. But yeah.

I'm hoping this movie is at least better than the Enterprise series. Ugh. NO one can convince me that THAT load of crap was good.

[civilian_number_two]

Well, we can agree on that last sentence =)

[BigStupidDogFacedArse]

I saw a quick trailer in the cinema. From that trailer, I've already concluded that the first 25-30 minutes of the film will be devoted to re-introducing all the characters we already know. I saw a clip of young scotti already acting like the scotti we all know and love, and keep in mind it was his first voyage with the crew. The big spin on character development will be spock having a quarrel with Kirk. I saw him grab Kirk by the neck during the trailer, so I can tell the two will not get along at first, I'm sure by the end of the film Spock will become the loyal 2nd man in command and Kirk will win everyones respect by endangering the entire ship and crew, only to pull them out of harms way at the last second.

I might be jumping the gun, but I really feel I've seen the entire film from the 45 second trailer.

[civilian_number_two]

Well I just saw this movie. I haven't seen your trailer, BSDFA, but you nailed it. And bonus points to whoever it was that predicted we'd get to see the Kobayashi Maru test. Oh. My. God.

What a load of dog shit.

Lots of big action scenes that failed to distract me from its terrible terrible premise of bad guy wants to destroy universe with giant boomstick from the future. It even has a disclaimer IN STORY that "allowed" it to digress from Star Trek canon, as though its writers weren't confident enough that the'd get it right.

Too many inside jokes, sight gags, and celebrity impersonations mired down and made embarrassing what should have been an easy gig. In the end it felt to me like a big-budget fan film.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 14 June 2009 - 10:01 PM

[Mr Pye]

What a load of dog shit.

That more or less sums up my thoughts on viewing this movie. But then IMO nothing Star Trek has been worth looking at since Voyager came to an end.

The editing room has a fairly decent spoof of this movie.

http://www.the-editi...k.html#more-966

So wait, why does red matter destroy planets but send ships back in time?

This post has been edited by Mr Pye: 28 June 2009 - 02:54 PM

[barend]

Well maybe it's just me but thought that new ST movie was 7 different kinds of awesome!!!

I imediatley decided afterwards that it was time to by the OS on DVD but the ones that had been trying to tempt me with their interestingly packed overpricedness for so many months... only to find they've all been re-released as George Lucasesque spiffy rape your childhood with a ten pound black ribbed dildo updated CGI godawfulness.

The best thing about the good A story/ stupid B story is that the wroiters took all of the characters that everyone likes and kept them for the A, and they took all of the characters that everybody hates and put them in the B.

You did not just refer to Barkley as a character that everyone hates.

[civilian_number_two]

You liked it? Really? What was your favourite part, the bit where the villain with the giant boomstick from the future fell back in time so that he could kill Kirk's father, or the bit where after that he sat and did NOTHING ELSE FOR 25 YEARS so that he could kill Spock's mother? Or was it the bit where Kirk's hands got really big? Or the funny Kobayashi Maru test (now written by Spock!), or any of the other dumb "inside" references to the other movies? Or the way Scotty was found accidentally on a planet apparently in orbit around Vulcan, a planet that also had Spock on it, living in a cave, also found accidentally? Or the trasporter that sent Scotty into the fountain from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? Or ... or ...

God, what a load of dog shit.

And whatever, you can have your Barclay, but remember he was on the away team with Riker and Troi.

[Gobbler]

I still haven't watched the movie, and now that it seems that I was right about the Kobayashi Maru test... I don't think I really want to anymore.

[barend]

You liked it? Really? What was your favourite part, the bit where the villain with the giant boomstick from the future fell back in time so that he could kill Kirk's father, or the bit where after that he sat and did NOTHING ELSE FOR 25 YEARS so that he could kill Spock's mother? Or was it the bit where Kirk's hands got really big? Or the funny Kobayashi Maru test (now written by Spock!), or any of the other dumb "inside" references to the other movies? Or the way Scotty was found accidentally on a planet apparently in orbit around Vulcan, a planet that also had Spock on it, living in a cave, also found accidentally? Or the trasporter that sent Scotty into the fountain from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? Or ... or ...

God, what a load of dog shit.

And whatever, you can have your Barclay, but remember he was on the away team with Riker and Troi.

IT was the little things. Maybe it was me walking in with low expectations, but I found it harmless fun. I loved that Kirk was fucking a green chick, I loved the quickly getting to know the red suit before a dangerous mission in which he got killed, but most importantly (and hypocritically vindicating I think you'll find) was the bit where it was all BOOOOOM KRSHSHSHH pew pew pew pweong, BAKCHCHCHCHC, kekekekekek, BANG BOOM VWOOOOOOOOMSH, chugu KAPLOW!!!!

[civilian_number_two]

Yeah, that's what I thought. I think when this is all over (the hype I mean), people will realize that this was no CASINO ROYALE, this was DIE ANOTHER DAY.

STAR TREK was not a movie; it was a delivery system for tits and explosions. It had no story, only plot elements and jokes. It had no characters. It was not Star Trek.

[Mr Pye]

Quote

STAR TREK was not a movie; it was a delivery system for tits and explosions

I wish. The venusian woman was decent looking.

Star Trek was running on all cylinders but there was no one behind the wheel.

[civilian_number_two]

Agreed, sorta. The most common response to criicism of the new ST movie is that "it did better than all the other movies, so therefore it is the best." I disagree. While of course the other ST films were made by people trying to make money, they still followed ST continuity and belonged in the ST universe (most of them, anyway). By making loads of money, this one may have proven it's fundamentally different from the others. Using the more money = better formula would be like making a sequel to GANDHI and filling it with fast cars, tits and explosions, making a billion dollars, and concluding that you'd made a better Gandhi film because you made more money. Maybe you made a better movie. That argument could go on forever. But is it really a followup to the other film?

I don't agree that this one ran on all cylinders. I didn't find the characters compelling, the plot elements were held together by necessity rather than credibility, and the action was ultimately uninteresting (villain is indestructible until the narrative require that he not be, which is basically the most formulaic action plot ever). I was bored most of the time, and I really wanted to like it. I didn't like the time travel/parallel universe storyline, but that alone wasn't a dealbreaker. It was that the time travel/parallel universe storyline wasn't a storyline on its own, but rather a "clever" fix to issues of continuity. And it was used so poorly! One spaceship was blown up twenty-five years ago, with little loss of life, so now the federation communicators look different! And now Scotty is assigned to an ice planet orbiting Vulcan, never to be noticed by the Federation unless Kirk shows up! Now Starfleet promotes Ensigns to Captain in one week! NOw Uhura and Spock are dating! It was BUTTERFLY EFFECT meets SLIDERS, the notion that one little change will affect everyone dramatically, except they'll all still end up meeting one another and working/living together, only in different ways.

It was a weird, bad movie.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 20 July 2009 - 11:45 PM

[Gobbler]

civilian_number_two, on 20 July 2009 - 05:50 AM, said:

Using the more money = better formula would be like making a sequel to GANDHI and filling it with fast cars, tits and explosions, making a buillion dollars.

That sounds like the ultimate movie.