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Asian Jedi? Nowhere to be found.

#31 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 02:43 PM





This From GOLDSEA Asian American Issues
http://goldsea.com/A...s/starwars.html
Asian Men Deliberately Excluded from Star Wars?
(Updated Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003, 08:50:43 AM)

ow that the fifth installment of the Star Wars saga has hit theatres, it's official: Asian men have no place in George Lucas's vision of the future. An Asian female Jedi was glimpsed in the most recent installment, but not one single Asian male has been spotted in any of the five movies.
The absence is all the more remarkable given that Star Wars borrows its themes and fight scenes so obviously from samurai and kung-fu flicks. On a purely demographic level, it's difficult to imagine a distant future in which Asians will not be the preponderance of humanity. Even on a mundane economic level, Asians account for at least a third of today's global box office and video revenues.
The utter absence of Asian men in the latest installment is even more glaring in light of the promises Lucas made in response to Asian protests over the omission of Asian actors coupled with suspicious attachment of Asian cultural traits to unsavory alien grotesqueries in The Phantom Menace. Lucas had even hinted that images of Bruce Lee would be used in the installment now known as The Clone Wars.
In The Phantom Menace Lucas used Asian martial artists both to choreograph and perform the kendo-inspired light-saber sequences. But as if wishing to take back the decision, in The Clone Wars Lucas's PR machine made a point of showing that the fight sequences were choreographed by a white man and performed by the actors themselves. That explains why they were so leaden and lackluster, but raises the question why?
Could it be that George Lucas wants to avoid calling attention to his large debt to Asian action films?
Is Lucas afraid that including an Asian man will invite critical focus on the new movie's sub-par swordfight sequences?
Is Lucus slyly inviting viewers to see wizened little Master Yoda as a winking representation of Asian men?
Despite his avowed interest in Chinese and Japanese martial arts, culture, literature and films, is Lucas a closet racist after all?



There's an Asian male pilot at the end of the Phantom Menace when Naboo fighters are attacking the Federation starship. He says, "There are too many of them!" I also belive that one of the pilots at the end of Return of the Jedi is an Asian male (though you may be unhappy to hear he slams into an Imperial Starship), when the rebellion is going after the Death Star, though I'll have to watch it again to be sure. I find it amusing the George Lucas gets attacked and bashed from every possible minority and majority group for everything from A to Z. It isn't fair and 99% of it isn't even true. However, I do understand the sensitivity to the "accents" used in the Phantom Menace, I was bothered by them to. Despite that, I never actually believed they were a product of racism, but at worst ignorance of other people's sensitivites. One other note, Star Wars does not take place in the future, and it is not a representation of humnity, it is a totally different galaxy. Having said that I do agree that there needs to be a more accurate representation of all peoples in entertainment.

I think it's TOTAL RACIST BULLS***.
Fact is, STAR WARS is structured on textbook Campbellian mythology and a total RIP-OFF of Oriental culture! Just to cite a few examples:
1) Light/dark = Yang/Yin
2) Force = qi
3) Darth Vader's helmet = samurai helmet
4) Light sabers = samurai swords
5) Luke's robe = karate gi
6) Yoda = koan-spouting Zen master
7) Obi-Wan = Taoist adept/immortal
8) Etc, etc
Yet they got EVERY OTHER RACE in it, EXCEPT for the one it's BASED ON! Not even ONE token one!!!! Wow!
Star Wars = Oriental

I think Asian Americans need to wake up and start protesting, complaining and threatening boycotts of advertisers, Hollywood producers and the media in general for continuously portraying Asian men as weak characters. Asian men are portrayed in one of four ways. #1 Evil Military Foreign General #2 Weak Computer Nerd (most prevalent) #3 Chinese/Japanese Chefs #4 Again, as a Foreign KungFu Master. Asian men are almost never portrayed in positive masculine roles as everyday American figures. But always as weak, greedy, clever but nerdy foreign characters. To the readers, do me a favor. Try to jot down the number of commercials/ads you view and see how many of them even cast Asians in there ads let alone positive ads. If you do see one it will be of some foreign speaking Asian cook holding a fish or some other stereotypical image. For a long time, blacks were stereotyped as well, I'm sure you all heard of the term "black exploitation films." When the media or Hollywood would always portray blacks as drug addicts, pimps and lazy criminals. However in the mid to late 1980's things changed because and only because the black leaders and communities started to threaten boycotts and protested regarding such poor images and representations of blacks by Hollywood producers and media giants. Today, you see many blacks in ads and TV shows and films portrayed in various and positive images. Trust me before the 1980's you really didn't see too many blacks in ads or movies other than the stereotypical ones. You as an Asian person may say, “who cares about all this, it doesn’t directly affect me.” Oh how WRONG you are! It MATTERS a LOT!! It means everything with regards to general acceptance as Asian Americans and not some "little foreign Chinamen." When a viewer is constantly shown the same negative/weak images, it will influence their thoughts. It MATTERS a LOT because it means Asians are less likely to be offered a position on a sports team, an executive level promotion (no corporate glass ceilings, which is often the case for Asian Americans with great credentials thus forcing us to go out and start our own businesses) and generally speaking, greater acceptance as Americans equal to the next white guy. It MATTERS a LOT because if you the Asian guy try out for sports and fail one time and strike out or throw an interception, the coach isn't privately going to think "why did I give this ASIAN guy a chance for a tryout, he's ASIAN he can't play ball, I'm going to cut him." It's called stereotyping & discriminating based on some preconceived notion that this coach may have about Asians not being athletic enough to compete at a certain level. Where would this Coach get such discriminating thoughts & prejudices? Well, you guessed it……..through the media! Again, images/ideas seen and heard over and over again influence the mind, whether you agree with it or not. Why do you think Advertisers spend billions of dollars each year to advertise? They know this truth. But going back to my example of the sports coach…… if a white or black guy missed the same play or threw that same interception the coach is more willing and open to give him another chance, thinking the kid just had a bad day! Because he has the belief that whites and blacks can play ball. The coach hasn’t been repeatedly exposed to the negative images, negative stereotypes about blacks and whites by the media. I’m not saying that whites or blacks are never shown in a bad light but it is balanced. Or I should say they are presented far more often in a positive light.
Are you guys now understanding why this image thing in the media and how Asian men are portrayed is so very important? Like I said the power of the media is HUGE! Because it has the power to influence people’s minds. Only when the media started to portray blacks as equal to whites, did the rest of American society become more receptive and respectful of African Americans. I remember in the late 70's and early 80's, most people were ignorant and thought many negative things about blacks because of the negative stereotypes shown in the media and they were the only images we saw over and over again. And unfortunately that influenced a lot of people’s opinions about blacks. Which was very wrong. It was Racism. The same thing is still happening today against Asian Americans and specifically Asian men. So YES it does affect you and me, the everyday Asian and we Asian Americans need to get angry and passionate about this. Start writing, emailing or calling the advertisers who sponsor films, companies and other media outlets which continue to stereotype. Tell them all, we’re tired of this crap! I'm not saying don't ever portray Asians in negative roles at all, that's not realistic but similar to their portrayal of whites and blacks, balance it out by also portraying us as powerful, insightful, sensitive, confident and strong leading men. And don't just stereotype us into the 1 of 4 roles I mentioned earlier. Tell the media and advertisers that we will no longer spend a single dime buying or supporting any of their products or services if they continue to feed us with negative/stereotypical views of Asian men. Not too long ago a racist incident occurred in the San Francisco Bay Area, CA. As most of you may know, California is the state with the largest contingency of Asians in the country. In the San Fran Bay Area, the numbers are even greater. I believe every 4th person in SF Bay Area is Asian. Meaning 25% of the total Northern CA. population is Asian American.

Anyways, going back to my story...there was a Chinese American family who walked onto a luxury automobile dealership. One of the family member was a young college UC Berkley student. He overheard a white guy making some offensive racial slurs and comments about some other Chinese family there looking for cars. Well the Chinese American guy got pissed and reported it to the manager who just shrugged it off and dismissed it. Probably thinking, "ah who cares, there just a bunch of Asians and they won't do anything about it." Trust me people if it was a black person (because of the NACCP’s strong presence) making this same complaint, the apathetic white male manager would have taken it a lot more seriously and would have addressed it right there and then! But since they were Asians, he assumed they were going to be "passive" and not do anything about it. BIG MISTAKE! This Chinese American guy wasn't some " me no speaka engrish Chinamen.” He was some type of Cal University student body activist. So this Chinese American dude emailed everyone he knew, including the local news stations and guess what? The local news channels aired this story and within days the auto dealership was bombarded with phone calls and emails regarding this racist salesman demanding that they reprimand/terminate him or ELSE. What is the or "ELSE" part? Simple, pure economics! You see in California and especially the metropolitan areas, there are a lot of Asian Americans purchasing luxury cars! Asians one after another called and emailed the dealership stating they will never again buy another car from them in the future. Well to make a long story short, two days later, the owner of this prestigious auto dealership wrote a personal letter to this Chinese American guy apologizing and a day after, fired the red neck salesman! Now that is what I’m talking about! A collective Asian voice, threatening boycotts….. got results! Without doubt, from that point on, I'm sure this dealership was very cautious and careful as to how they treated and viewed ASIAN customers.
Statistics show that Asians make up about 15% of the total population of California but about 30% of the economic output (income, spending). Meaning more than any other single group, Asians have the absolute power to seriously affect California's economy. The big businesses and merchants know this. With this knowledge we need to start wielding our economic might and collectively unite and voice our anger and frustrations by threatening to boycott, stop purchasing or refuse to support any entity, organization or individual who continue to demean, disrespect, misrepresent, and portray Asians in stereotypical and negative manner.

Media racism agains AA's
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#32 User is offline   azerty Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 03:57 PM

Excellent! So the Asians banded together to form an economic boycott and weilded their economic might.

Did they get their blockade treaty signed by Amidala too, or did they have to send in the droid army? Anyway, you don't need to "boycott and stop purchasing from" because its the same damn thing. And now I am sure that every salesman in the shop just loves to see an Asian come through the door... No more bad feeling there!
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#33 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 07:06 PM

Banzaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#34 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 07:36 PM


Michelle Yeoh
BultarSwan.com



Kamikaze Pilot



Fu Man Chu



Coke-Bottles



Buck-Tooth/Slant Eyes


Me-So-Solly
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#35 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 07:46 PM

Now that we've covered all the Asian Stereotypes from Star Wars...


Episode III will feature the following:

Han Sho Lo, Corellian Rice Smuggler

Wu Tang Zim, Rebel Math Expert and Computer Programmer

Egg Fu Yung, serves noodles to Obiwan when he revisits the Diner

Me So Honee, Jedi Laundry clerk...

Is any of this offensive to Asian, you're damn right it is.

Its so blatently obvious its disgusting.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#36 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 07:51 PM

tokenism vs racism

what to do, what to do...

we need to find a medium...

it's just a fucking mess...

every movie has the token black guy... has it solved the lack of blacks in film. yes, but in the most patrionizing fashion....
do we really want to do the same for "asian" men... oh i see it.
the matrix had ghost (or some such name), and the oricles body guard...
and star wars has it's appearences...
but no hero... Big Trouble in Little China, covered it well...
'cause there were only 3 white characters in the whole thing... and the 'main' hero was white, but his chinesse friend was more competent in every way (there could be an argument that it pushes the stereo type that all chinese men know kung fu, but Eddie doesn't so i think that's covered well enough for everyone to just back off!!!).
and jet lee, chow yun fat, jackie chan... are always the stars...
of course these are all kung fu films or such so i guess there's still something that needs to be sorted out there... i would find it welcome change to see a chinesse or japanesse man as a lead in a romatic comedy or something, or a black man now that i think about it, but black americans do get good roles in films... and let's not forget spawn, before someone says they never play the heros... not often, granted.

but "asian" men do get good roles... usually the same ones, but at least their not indian right?

i mean indians are the worlds fucking joke.... name one movie (not made in india) where the indian guy was a hero, or a character who was there for any other reason than to laugh at his accent and head wobbling... huh? fucking tell me!!!

but when this "asian" debate comes up, no one's thinking of india... and you know why? 'cause no one cares...

it's just first world perspective...
it's slowly getting better, but the fact of the matter is that a majority of filmmakers are white... and when they wriote a story the write it from the perspective of the main characters... and all they know is being white... that doesn't make them a racist!
if you want a story about a vietnamese trucker turned hero, or a black doctor in love, or whatever... it needs to be written by someone who has some insight on that race... otherwise it will be unrealistic and the product of stereotypes...

to end the stereo types and restriction to background... the best way to represent your race is to start the ball rolling yourself, because everytime you say 'I wanna be in a white mans film' you are asking to be in the a white mans interpretation of who you are. where he has seen you... and you get no where...

so protesting for better parts is a waste of time...
if 'asian' writters are having trouble getting anywhere - then THAT is thr real problem....

no white middle american male director/writer knows well enough what it is to grow up in a white comunity as a black, asian, or jewish person...
so how the are they going to write a descent part when they have no idea...

???
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#37 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:37 PM

I think you sold your point there Hannibal, with the buck tooth/slant eyed guy.

That is chilling.

Of course, that is something pretty much everyone was saying right after THE PHANTOM MENACE came out, until hoards of Asian writers jumped up and down saying they didn't find it offensive, and we were all white liberals, and that we could read something into it said more about us than about the material.

So too the army of black critics (well, troop, anyhow) ranting about how Jar-Jar was not black, and white people should check their attitude. Fine. So we all said, "fuck it." Anyway, there's far more to criticize in TPM than possible racism that apparently didn't offend anyone, and only made less of the would-be liberals who tried to speak about it.

The rest of that story I don't know so much about: the dearth of Asians in the original series of STAR WARS films raises the question of where were all the token Americans and blacks in YOJIMBO. Goodness, the source story was written by an American! I don't think it's necessarily racist to exclude a race; I agree with you on the inclusion + sterotyping, but the exclusion? You turn around and end up with tokenism when you try to correct that one.

Granted Lucas is an idot on this topic. The sig I've been running for some time now (see below) was Lucas's official response to the lack of ethnic characters n STAR WARS. He claimed that it made more sense to him that all three main characters be of a common race, and that it went from there. I may agree; however, Lucas found the worst way to defend himself. It's hysterical, almost panicked.

The story about the way mass hysteria led to an economic boycott, because someone might have "overheard" something: that is the other frightening end of the PC movement. Who knows what that guy said: ah, who cares? Better get in with the crowd! Those are the same people who form lynch mobs and praise films like PHILADELPHIA.

Anyway, I think this writer makes the opposite point of what he wanted to say: the mere whisper of perceived racism in the case of the auto retailer led to a mid-scale protest. Open criticism of Lucas's "depiction of Asians" led to massive success in Asia, "Asian" EU characters, a worldwide shrug and claims that the liberals who noticed it were the real racists. That is, a backlash.

So, la.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#38 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:58 PM

Wow! Never thought I'd see this thread be resurrected. Indeed, it was good to see the original article which made me start this thread in the first place.

An Indian is an Asian. So an Asian Jedi there has been.

But is it all semantics?

I loved the picture of the Rebel fighter pilots getting ready to blow up the Death Star.

SW has always been the subject of racist criticism. Was James Earl Jones's voice a bow to inclusiveness? Was Lando a token black? Is Bultar Swan the Oriental pearl for the male audience?

My original post was a comment that GL includes no Asians males as Jedi even though he has admitted his indebtedness to the samurai tradition. I heard rumors decades ago that GL originally wanted Toshiro Mifune as the lead role. With this being the last SW film, I just thought it might be nice to see an Asian Jedi.

My subsequent posts were rails against those who would say "get over the race thing." If you don't see it, step out of your shell. If you're not open to the idea that there still a lot of people who are racists (and general all-purpose bigots), you'll never see it. (That is until you see a black man dragged behind a pick up or a fag tied to a fence and left to die.)

So will there be an Asian Jedi in EP 3? I guess it's not necessary. Just a nice thought. Of course, the argument could be made that the stormtroopers, originally clones of the Australian Jango Fett, are technically Asians. And you know how they end up: pawns of the Emperor who can turn them on or off at will, minions of an evil Emperor.
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#39 User is offline   azerty Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 09:21 PM

Yep, if there's one thing I hate more than racism, it's those damn Gunguns. Thinking they are as good as us! And When Amidala and Obi wan actually get on their knees and admit that the Gunguns and the humans should be equals and friends, that was the worst part of the movie. ... To quote HofMarN, "But the Gungans sucked monkey dick so who cares. What precisely did they have that they felt elevated them above the humans? Slobber? A fat leader?" That's the attitude! Down with the inferiors! Long live the beautiful people, the tall people, the athletic people.

P.S. I hope there are some Innuit jedi's in episode 3, and a Khoikhoi or two. I personally find the exclusion of those ethnic groups from most movies shocking.
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#40 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 11:01 PM

well i thought i brought up some good points... but it doesn't sound like my huge post was read in it's entirety...

so i'm going to leave this argument with a much simpler notion...

i want to see the patrionizing inclusion of all miniorities by all white directors as much as i want to eat in a korean resteraunt with a completely french staff...

you want you're race explored on film... write a script, or see your self through someone elses eyes...

This post has been edited by barend: 07 November 2004 - 11:09 PM

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#41 User is offline   HK 47 Icon

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 04:23 AM

QUOTE
i want to see the patrionizing inclusion of all miniorities by all white directors as much as i want to eat in a korean resteraunt with a completely french staff...
you want you're race explored on film... write a script, or see your self through someone elses eyes...


Well put Barend. Would anyone ever criticize an asian movie for not including caucasians and africans? Eskimoes? Ask yourself if you would feel discriminated if a successful movie did not include your own racial heritage. It does not imply racism. But nowadays people are so scared of being labeled this or that, that many jump at the opportunity to declare their innocence by accusation.
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#42 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 04:55 AM

the madness continues.

Lucas is not a racist. in fact, hes way past the 'lets hire a few token minorities to keep the critics happy' school of casting. Lucas includes actors who he thinks are good and right for the part.

and he cant win either. he hires Temmura Morrison, and suddenly its "yeah but the clones become the puppets of the Emperor! dont tell me lucas isnt a rasict now!"

or "yeah but...but...Jar Jars ears look like dreadlocks a bit...and he was voiced by a black voice actor! explain that one Lucas! and listen to how he talks!!"

Jar Jar talks, if anything, like a baby. ive yet to hear anyone, Jamaican or otherwise, speak in a way that even remotly resembles Jar Jar. and how does JJ fulfill the role of a black servant? Qui refuses his help when its offered. he helps JJ out because he doesnt want to see him killed, he helps him out of compassion (where Obi doesnt want to) but not once from that point on do we see JJ supplicating himself to his masters whims, or any of those other staples of black exploitation films/literature.

its also never stated that the Gungans are inferior to the Naboo. and at the end, its the Naboo who bow down to the Gungans- an often ignored or conviently forgotten fact.

"ok then, the Neimoidians. theyre asians, the 'yellow peril'"

listen, if you want to find racial representations of asians, theyre everywhere. look and think hard enough, and you can apply whatever to whatever you want. i'll admit the voices were probably a mistake, and were the one thing to start this whole nonsense off. but even the voices sound like cheesy knock offs of 70's martial arts films, and who in their right mind is going to get offended at something as obviously intentionlly exaggerated as that?? desperate critics?? thats where it stops. the Neimoidians are buisinessmen, theyre capitalists!! but so are the banking clan and the commerce guild in AotC. if Lucas was attempting to show the asian takeover of the financial market (the idea sounds stupid, but i cant think of any other reason that people would be offended that the Neimoidians are rich, successful buisinessmen) why not make all these other seperatists asians too?? and come to think of it, if Lucas was so keen on representing the asian threat or whatever crap it is, why make the Neimoidians 6 foot 7??

i thought that the Neimoidians actually come off ok in the films. they certainly have the intelligence (as well as the power) to see that military might is the direction that the galaxy is heading. they will come off badly because of their dealings with Palpatine but so what? so will everyone else. and the asians as the bad guys? come on, knock it off. the two main bad guys are white. and the Neimoidians as greedy? Greed is a THEME in star wars, and natuarally the bad guys should portray it. its what sends the galaxy down the toliet- represented by Anakin, but also those alligned to Palpatine.

lets not forget Temurra Morrison, Ahmed Best, Hugh Quarshie, a lot of other asian and black actors that i dont know the names of. and if Lucas was a rasist, why on earth would have so many asian employees working on SW at Lucasfilm? can anyone explain that?

theres nothing worse than 'token ethnic minority' characters in films. Lucas, to his great credit, does not pander to that.

HK47- just read your post. good point.

This post has been edited by jariten: 08 November 2004 - 04:56 AM

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#43 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 07:00 PM

Agreed, Jariten.

IN the posts I wrote, but nobody read, I stated that too.


And who gives a flying fuck if the nimodian's look Asian. Asian's didn't. I did not hear one complaint from an asian person. I'm from Vancouver, I'd know.


It seems to me that the only people who complain about this shit on a regular basis is white liberal males/females. A couple of my friends are staunch liberals. They try suck up to minorties to be 'down' with them by saying how lame white people are and how much we suck.


"did you see that film about Policemen, Wang-FU, I was disgusted that it had no Asians, us white people are really arrogant and close minded, I mean, you're Asian and you could be a cop, right? Ya, I think so" *sips starbucks coffee.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 08 November 2004 - 07:02 PM

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#44 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 11:12 PM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Nov 8 2004, 07:00 PM)
"And who gives a flying fuck if the nimodian's look Asian. Asian's didn't. I did not hear one complaint from an asian person. I'm from Vancouver, I'd know."

This From GOLDSEA Asian American Issues
http://goldsea.com/A...s/starwars.html
Asian Men Deliberately Excluded from Star Wars?
(Updated Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003, 08:50:43 AM)

This ENTIRE article was posted above. You know what I think Mr.Whogivesaflyingfuck, who gives a flying fuck what you think.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
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#45 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 11:59 PM

"Darth Maul would have been a good Asian character," except:

Lucas Simply missed an opportunity and DIDN'T make DM asian because Lucas is racist. :angry:

or-

Lucas only makes Darth Maul an Asian because DM is the bad guy, or because he wears kabuki makeup, or because he's a Martial Arts expert, or because (insert stereotype here.) happy.gif

--


The point is, Racism is an explosive issue and I don't believe the man gives it significant thought one way or the other. He has creative people come up with stuff to fulfill his shifting whim of what's right. The end result has his name on it, and he approves of the outcome, whatever it is. You know he has. We also know that he accepts the acting, directing, screenplay, and 78 or so reasons to hate each blasted release. So call him Whatever you want. He deserves it.
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