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A Lost Hope Title and Duel Confirmation

#16 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 18 May 2004 - 11:05 PM

QUOTE (CowboyCurtis @ May 18 2004, 07:26 PM)
"The Phantom Menace" is about the most atrocious title that has ever been, and ever shall be for a SW movie.

The Ewok Adventure: Caravan of Courage??? biggrin.gif
Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter.
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Posted 19 May 2004 - 12:24 AM

Oh, you've brought back painful memories, Supes. That movie was.... bad...

let's just leave it at that.
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#18 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 06:15 AM

Episode one: There's a menace. It might be Maul, it might be the trade federation, and it might be Palpatine. Then again maybe it's Sebulba or Watto. I just don't know.

Episode two: There are clones and they're attacking the bad guys. The ability to use such terms for what the good guys are doing has given me some ideas for other good titles.
Saving private Ryan will now becalled "Attack of the Allies!"
Three Kings will now be called "George Clooney attacks!"
Dogma will now be called "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back!"
Star Trek will now be called "Attack of the enterprise!"
Deathstalker 2 will now be called "Duel of the Titans" Oh wait... that one already dosn't make sense...
Star Wars ep5 will now be called "The rebellion attacks!" For absolutely no reason.

Episode three: The sith are getting revenge for something. Possibly the death of Darth Maul. Why was Darth Maul even fighting? We'll never know.

Compare this with the rather concise and unquestionable titles for the OT.

A New hope. There's a hope and it's new. Obviously this refers to Luke becoming a Jedi.

The Empire strikes back. You can see it throughout the film that the empire is striking people. And if you bothered watching the previous film or the opening scroll you'd notice that their attacks are in retribution. Why it's almost as if they're "striking back"

Return of the Jedi. Luke is now a Jedi and he's returning to face his destiny.

I think the Japanese have a better tongue for titling movies than Lucas currently does. Sure if it had been up to them the title of EP1 would be "Super red faced horn man attacks! Might Naboo Jedi defend the elected monarch!" But that's a lot more topical and interesting than the other title.

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#19 User is offline   HK 47 Icon

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 11:42 AM

That's a really major issue. What exactly motivates the Sith? Why do they want revenge? Surely George can't possibly be so stupid as to leave this out of Ep III as well? Kidding, of course he will.

By the way, japanese titles are great! Here's more:

"Episode II: Bounty hunter supreme multiplies! Mega attack on insect planet!"
"Episode III: Whiny gaijin stalker falls in lava! Bad! Super dark lord of revenge appears!"

Something Awful had an entire section devoted to japanese movie posters. The US Godzilla was brilliant: "Godzilla: Ha ha, white devil! Your monster box-office poison!"
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#20 User is offline   Sagacity Icon

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (HK 47 @ Dec 23 2004, 11:42 AM)
That's a really major issue. What exactly motivates the Sith? Why do they want revenge? Surely George can't possibly be so stupid as to leave this out of Ep III as well? Kidding, of course he will.



Sure, he'll leave it out so he can concentrate on other stuff, like how to fit midichlorians back into the story. I'm not kidding here, unfortunately. ermm.gif
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#21 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 12:19 PM

You guys are forgetting the most forgettable villian of the PT of course. Darth Maul.

Wasn't about half his dialogue something like: "At last we shall have our revenge..."

fairly obvious loose end. happy.gif Couldn't have been unintentional!
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#22 User is offline   azerty Icon

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 02:53 PM

Allow me to gush a while...

The Phantom Menace is is not stupid title for movie number 1. There is a menace starting in the galaxy, but nobody can tell exactly what it is... it is a kind of phantom menace. The roving Jedi seem to be cool, the shiny ass Jedi are rotting away in that temple from within. The Republic seems to be rotting from within. Palpatine seems to be a kind of weaslely menace, and Darth Palpatine is a mysterious menace. (The argument that you knew all along that Palpatine was really Darth-whatever is lame. Of course if you are going to spoil the movie for yourself before you see it, it will be spoiled.) So, to sum up, there is a Phantom Menace growing in the galaxy. So why not call the movie Phantom Menace!

Where to bashers start their bash point? You don't like Qui Gon as a jedi, but like Luke as a jedi in Return of the Jedi? You like Boba Fett's 5 minutes in Empire, but don't like Darth Maul's 5 minutes in Menace? You find Uncle Owen interesting, but Watto boring? You believe in rubber faced Greedo, but not in Rubber faced Trade Aliens. The fight between Luke and Vader is exciting, while between Maul and Obi Wan isn't. Despite the fact that Empire makes no sense and Menace makes some sense, you think one is the best in the series, and the other is the worst. You hate extraneous characters but like Lando.

I try and find reasons behind people's views, but opinions don't seem to stand up to scrutiny. I bashed the hell out of empire and praised the hell out of menace, and nobody has done anything other than tell me I'm wrong, but without reasons. "Oh, I just can't read this anymore, because I love empire... when Harison says Gundark it's witty and cool, but when Ewan says it its's stupid..." I can see how you might like the movies or be indifferent to them, but mostly you guys are like political party affiliates - "tell me which movie it was from, and then I'll tell you if I liked it or not."
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#23 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 12:56 AM

azerty, nice gush. And I really like your bold thinking in suggesting naming the film “Phantom Menace.” That would be cool in a way. By not directly referring to THE phantom menace” it kind of veils the obvious a little bit, I guess. But it Does Sound different in a non SW (read: Good) manner.
Of course they couldn’t call it that, because ever since Empire was released the Star Wasr logo has framed the film’s name (OT) or preceded it. They couldn’t have it called “Star Wars, Episode One: ‘Phantom Menace,’” could they?
It certainly doesn’t carry the essence of prominence. wink.gif

I Liked Qui-gon. By the time Luke was revealed as a jedi, I was let down already. I liked Boba’s ESB duty, but don’t think he deserves the media hype they gave PM’s DM, for his 5 minutes of fame. Maul deserved 10 more minutes just for all the coverage. He was the New Darth Vader, remember?
Lando did get the 15 minutes, and was rewarded handsomely. He was made a General biggrin.gif

A lot of us are here because we share something in common. (We can differ on the details.)
If you don’t feel the same, well, I can’t imagine that so I’ll just wish you well in your efforts. smile.gif

QUOTE
but mostly you guys are like political party affiliates - "tell me which movie it was from, and then I'll tell you if I liked it or not."


cute. But I think we know which scenes we liked, and what movies they're from.
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#24 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 08:42 AM

QUOTE (azerty @ Dec 23 2004, 08:53 PM)
Where to bashers start their bash point?  You don't like Qui Gon as a jedi, but like Luke as a jedi in Return of the Jedi?  You like Boba Fett's 5 minutes in Empire, but don't like Darth Maul's 5 minutes in Menace?  You find Uncle Owen interesting, but Watto boring? You believe in rubber faced Greedo, but not in Rubber faced Trade Aliens.  The fight between Luke and Vader is exciting, while between Maul and Obi Wan isn't.  Despite the fact that Empire makes no sense and Menace makes some sense, you think one is the best in the series, and the other is the worst.  You hate extraneous characters but like Lando.

Maybe the reason you don't understand our views is because you just made half this stuff up? Just to take the very first point, if you had actually paid attention to the discussions we've had on Qui-Gon, I think you'd find that most of us do like him as a character. The reason we have a problem with him is that according to the OT he shouldn't even exist - or at least not as Obi-Wan's Master.

'You like Boba Fett's 5 minutes in Empire, but don't like Darth Maul's 5 minutes in Menace?'
There is no comparison between them. Boba Fett was a minor character who served his purpose and didn't need any further screen time. Darth Maul was the main villain of TPM, yet he had even less dialogue than Boba!

'You find Uncle Owen interesting, but Watto boring?'
When did anyone say this? There may be other reasons why people like or dislike these characters, but I don't remember anyone saying they found Owen particularly interesting or Watto particularly boring.

'You believe in rubber faced Greedo, but not in Rubber faced Trade Aliens'
Again, I don't remember anyone saying this. But if one was done well and the other badly, why not?

'The fight between Luke and Vader is exciting, while between Maul and Obi Wan isn't.'
Which one is the most 'exciting' is not the point. The TPM duel may have looked cool and been well-choreographed, but it was entirely missing the emotional resonance of the fight between Luke and Vader - largely because Maul is such a completely uninteresting villain.

'Despite the fact that Empire makes no sense and Menace makes some sense, you think one is the best in the series, and the other is the worst.'
Well, Empire made perfect sense to me when I watched it (which was after I watched TPM, by the way), and the same is apparently true for just about everyone else here. In TPM, on the other hand, all the illogicalities stuck out like a sore thumb.

'You hate extraneous characters but like Lando.'
Again, I have no idea where you got this from. None of us have a problem with extraneous characters as long as they a) serve some purpose and b) don't take up too much screen time or detract from the main story. But in any case, Lando is not 'extraneous' - his role is fairly small, but impotant to the plot.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#25 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 09:06 AM

Helena- Well said, well said.

I think something Azerty forgot to mention is that Lando actually has a conflict and a resolution that makes him a complete character "I don't want my people to suffer but I also dont want my friends to suffer" that's a pretty hard choice and it's interesting. Some of us might have not been able to predict that Lando was going to save everyone.

Maul's conflict however seems to be that he wants to kill the Jedi. Oh, wait, that's not a conflict at all.

Uncle Owen, once again, is troubled by the urge to keep Luke home and protect him from becoming like his father, and the recognition that Luke is now a man and needs to go his own way. It might not come out and say this but you can see that he's worrying over it and once more that created depth of character.

Watto however only seems to be motivated by money.

I don't think anyone here loves the fact that Boba Fett is in ESB or hates it. He's simply a part of the story. Maul however is supposed to be the ominous and evil force in the entire first episode. However all he ever does is have stupid saber battles with the Jedi. Just fighting the good guys does not make him a friggin arch fiend. He has no lines and noone even knows who he is. Do the heroes even know his name by the time ep1 is over? Do they ever even speak to him?

Boba Fett however IS a one dimensional character and theres no problem with this since he has very little screen time and dosn't play a very great role in the story arch of the trilogy. However Maul does. Maul kills the PT's version of OT Obi Wan. Can you imagine if in the OT Obi Wan was just randomly killed by some nobody instead of Darth Vader?

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#26 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 09:20 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Dec 24 2004, 03:06 PM)
Uncle Owen, once again, is troubled by the urge to keep Luke home and protect him from becoming like his father, and the recognition that Luke is now a man and needs to go his own way. It might not come out and say this but you can see that he's worrying over it and once more that created depth of character.

Watto however only seems to be motivated by money.

This is true, and I certainly prefer Owen as a character. But you can't really compare them as their purposes are very different - Watto plays pretty much the same role in TPM as Jabba the Hutt did in the OT, so you wouldn't expect him to be a particularly deep character. Would have been nice if he could have had more depth, of course, but remember that it's Lucas writing the script.

QUOTE
I don't think anyone here loves the fact that Boba Fett is in ESB or hates it. He's simply a part of the story. Maul however is supposed to be the ominous and evil force in the entire first episode. However all he ever does is have stupid saber battles with the Jedi. Just fighting the good guys does not make him a friggin arch fiend. He has no lines and noone even knows who he is. Do the heroes even know his name by the time ep1 is over? Do they ever even speak to him?

Boba Fett however IS a one dimensional character and theres no problem with this since he has very little screen time and dosn't play a very great role in the story arch of the trilogy. However Maul does. Maul kills the PT's version of OT Obi Wan. Can you imagine if in the OT Obi Wan was just randomly killed by some nobody instead of Darth Vader?

Yes, this is pretty much what I was trying to say - only a much better explanation.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#27 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 10:37 AM

QUOTE
Allow me to gush a while...


Permission denied. This forum is supposed to be a sanctuary of sanity, where people with good taste in movies can have intelligent conversations about how one of the most wonderful cinematic creations deteriorated into the rubbish that it is today.

The gushing forums can be found at the Force.Net.
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#28 User is offline   use the force Icon

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Posted 26 December 2004 - 12:43 PM

gladly, this spy report is entirely false.
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