Chefelf.com Night Life: Old school style - Chefelf.com Night Life

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Old school style there aint no school like the old school....

#31 User is offline   FFreak3 Icon

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 01:37 PM

FF8 had potential. It had a system that could've been fun. It had a story, that, if made a bit more non-linear, could've been acceptable. It had characters, that, with a little more work, could've been very fun to play. I was looking forward to FF9 after declaring FF8 was a piece of crap. Than FF9 ruined me for all FF's ever after.
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#32 User is offline   Maggot4Life Icon

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 09:14 PM

Well this is a change of pace. Normally people on forums think 'ah stupid kids dun know shit, lets kill them!'
Is secret of Evermore the one on SNES? and you turn into a werewolf or something? Oh wait i think that was called 'something something Densetsu' forgot the name but it was a great game.
Also Final Fantasy 9 was the first FF game i played which made me like it. then i played FFIII and FFX-2. the ps2 final fantasies arent really that great and since almost everyone says the seventh is the best i have to hunt it down and play it, some day.
Tactical shooters are pretty much all Tom Clancy games. Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six and the likes. yeah, you pretty much command a squad, choose points of entry, strategically choose entry methods and take out the enemies and stuff. I think the most strategic and tactical shooter game would probably be 'Rainbow six: Rogue Spear' where you can modify your weapon loadout, choose your squad members, and plot the squad's entire movement on a map before the level starts. Kinda confusing but if you master it you can finish the level in about thirty seconds flat. That or run around spraying lead into everything that moves.
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#33 User is offline   Spann Icon

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 01:58 AM

'Something something Densetsu' is Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3, known to us Western Infidels as Secret of Mana 1 and 2.

It's fucking years since I played SoE, but I don't remember any werewolf transformations in it. The annoying thing is though, I can picture the sprite, but can't remember the name of the game for the life of me.

The FF games up to VII are generally regarded to be utter works of art. VIII's junctioning system left alot of people (myself included) a little jaded, IX was too cutesy for some (although I enjoyed it), X and X-2 were fangirl central, XI is an MMO, and XII is somewhat of a return to form, although the battle system is horrible, in my opinion.

As regards to tactical shooters, the best ones I've played are the SWAT games, because at almost no point is spraying lead into everything that moves a viable 'strategy'.
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#34 User is offline   FFreak3 Icon

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 03:31 AM

There was a magacian in number one that had a spell to turn into a werewolf, (I think it might've been the sprite, possibly it was a summon, not a transform), and a wolf character in number two that could . . . ahhh . . . turn into a more powerful wolf. SoE didn't have any werewolf tranformations in it, though.

Seiken Densetsu 2 & 3 didn't have one particular main character, but 6, from which you chose three to play with. Usually you followed the story from the first character you picked and the others had little details of their stories pop up, (and you got quite a different story overrall if you actually played through 6 times and put everything together). So I don't think it's the one you're thinking about maggot.


I don't think much of tactical shooters. If nothing else, then because I keep thinking of ways I would've avoided the necessity of the mission altogether. I'm too much of a strategist, I suppose.
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#35 User is offline   Man Of Doom Icon

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 04:06 AM

I always thought 9 was the best FF actually. For me, the best ones are 4, 6 and 9. The only really bad games were 2 (because in order to get stronger you had to beat yourself up) and X-2 (because although the gameplay was alright, the storyline made me want to vomit everywhere.) 12 wasn't amazing either.

I don't really like tactical shooters. I like something a bit more fast paced. I think the closest thing to a tactical shooter I play is Gears of War.
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#36 User is offline   Spann Icon

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 12:07 PM

Seiken Densetsu 2 (Secret of Mana 1)'s main character was Randi. Seiken Densetsu 3 (Secret of Mana 2), was the one with the six different characters. SoM1 was pretty linear, as it goes.
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#37 User is offline   Maggot4Life Icon

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:10 PM

hmm.... maybe I'm off with the fairies. Sucks because i stupidly deleted my SNES emulator and all its roms for more hard disk space. ahh i wish i could go back in time. Oh well at least i have The Elder Scrolls: Arena to cheer me up.
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#38 User is offline   FFreak3 Icon

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:14 PM

Right, right, I was mixing up #2 with a fan-made SD3 wannabe.

Now I need to remember SoM1. I honestly can't. This calls for a replay!

(no need to read the below part if you don't need FF2 leveling strategy)
(I did actually write a FAQ on this, but it was taken off gamefaqs because people claimed it was inaccurate, citing other faqs on gamefaqs. Their own faqs, in fact. I don't expect you to believe me on any of this . . . you can test it yourself, I have the basic methods implied here).

As for FF2 . . . beating yourself up is one of the least profitable ways of leveling up until the very last dungeon, by which time you no longer need to level up.
Equip bad armour, bad weapons, and go into the hardest dungeon possible for one or two battles, then head back out and heal. With the starting sword and uh . . . dark statue dungeon capable characters, (at one point of the game, you need to get a white and a dark statue to dissolve the barrier on an island to a scroll that gives you access to a tower with a scroll for the spell ultima. The white statue is hidden in the palace, the dark statue is ina cave ona small isand in the middle of nowhere. That's about the best i can describe power levels) you should get from sword level 6 to sword level 11 in 5 battles.

This is much more profitable than beating yourself up due to a couple of things.

A) The Monsters you fight give some kind of xp modifier. Beat the stuffing out of yourself in front of a bee, and in front of a sand worm and you'll see a significant difference in max hp raise . . . even though both are in the first quarter of the game. (1000 -> 1020 for the bee, 1020 -> 1109 for the sand worm. Against a oglite, 1207 -> 1456. But then again, he beat the stuffing out of me, there).
B)Beating yourself up, the weapon levels stop increasing at all at level 8. There are other maximums on other stats, but this is the most restrictive, considering that I've beat the game with lvl-16 weapon stats before. (which I think is the absolute max, I haven't bothered to check because it is somewhat more than sufficient. (lvl-12 witha good weapon is overpowered enough, thanks)).
C) beating yourself up does not help with xp nearly so much as monsters beating you up.

For example, note that while magic spells are on a per use basis, magic points depend on how you use them. Many people disagree with this point, so I used save states to test this. First, I measured the increase on a control basis. Then I saved and made two copies. I went through once, and beat myself up, and cured myself through 10 battles and recorded the overall mp gain (around 50 or so, I think). I then went through and allowed the monsters to beat me up and cured myself every turn. (beating up was slower, curing was faster, it took about the same time). Mp gain was significantly larger, (around 200 points, i think . . . it was at least 4x larger than the mp gain through the beating myself up method). The control test, btw, was normal fighting with normal mp usage for me. The mp gain there was 65 across 10 battles. Not significant, and it would take far too much of my time testing whether my normal use gives, on average, more than beating yourself up. Particularly since there is a much better method to use. (letting really tough monsters beat you up, instead).

This actually does extend to weapon and stat gain. Beating yourself up, you gain less skill points per hit, assuming you aren't fighting the weakest monsters possible. Did you think that skill point gains were easily calculated for weapons? Sorry, not in the original NES game, at least. If you check in every battle and meticulously count your hits, you'll notice that if you beat yourself up, it stays at the same point per hit rise. If you don't beat yourself up, the number of points per hit you receive rises. This is easily testable, fire up your emulator and see. Unfortunetely, this does not extend to spells, as those will give you the same xp per use whteher you beat yourself up or not.

So, what about offensive spells? Monsters die quickly and you don't get much chance to use them (except on yourself), before the battle is over, and that's just time consuming.
So you COULD beat yourself up in order to get them to level faster, since you would need to spend less time finding monsters inr andom dungeons. That does work just as well . . . in respect to gaining only spell levels.
A brighter person would find a monster that gets healed by that type of spell, and in addition to spell levels, make a few other levels along the way.

There IS one way where beating yourself is much faster. The change spell. It switches the target's hp and mp, and gives you a nice amount of max HP and MP when you cast it on monsters, or party members, who have less HP and MP than you.
However, if you level up the rest of your stats the way I do, you'll have plenty of excess HP and MP. To say that I attain maximum HP and MP halfway through every replay of the game would be only mildly embellishing the truth.


That being said, my main gripe about the game is still the leveling system. You're just going about it wrong enough to make me want to correct you. It is much easier to play through the game with three warriors, (and one deadbeat), who only ever hit the attack button than it is to play properly. (assume you use healing potions between battles). They'll get pretty superpowered pretty quickly because they'll only level the stats they need, and those quickly. Such a team makes it to the last dungeon with around 8k health, and 20 magic, as well as lvl 14 weapon levels and very high strength. I can't imagine your playstyle could possibly differ from mine within those boundaries, although your luck or lust for danger and risk might make a significant difference in the stats you receive.
In playing properly, you basically have a number of attacks which will end up doing the same amount of damage because you try to balance them out, and which only work at certain times. If you try to play properly, but lose patience or don't try to balance out attacks, one method of attack gets much stronger, is used more often, and eventually becomes the only viable method of attack. Straight up attacking uses no MP, and is therefore the best method.

The good thing about the system is that encourages support magic, which is typically really ineffective, since support magic helps more than offensive magic. The bad thing is that you can only choose two or three spells to use unless you want to spend days making one spell effective. The worse thing is that even fully powered support magic helps less than another fighter instead of a mage, and the game is easily played through with only fighters, and fighters take much less time to train. Oh, yeah, and the reason that your support magic helps more in the first place is that a 120% boost to your fighter is more damage increase than you can get damage from any offensive spell you haven't spent days training.

The system does look good on paper, though. It had that much going for it before it was made and everyone realized it was crap for a combat system.

This post has been edited by FFreak3: 01 September 2008 - 05:17 PM

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#39 User is offline   Spann Icon

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:14 PM

You could turn into a Werewolf in Zombies ate my Neighbours...

Or a beast of some sort, anyway.

I've given in and preloaded Spore, so come Friday that'll be the end of my social life.
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#40 User is offline   Patch Icon

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 12:43 AM

QUOTE (Spann @ Sep 2 2008, 08:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You could turn into a Werewolf in Zombies ate my Neighbours...

Or a beast of some sort, anyway.

Hooray! A snes game I remember
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#41 User is offline   Relicc Icon

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 11:25 PM

You can get fallout 1 and 2 in a bundle pack on amazon.com, thats what I did, and they ship to aus.

Here is is


Speaking of old school, I wish someone would remake X-com: ufo defense(enemy unknown)

This post has been edited by Relicc: 03 September 2008 - 11:29 PM

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#42 User is offline   Spann Icon

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 12:45 PM

That's the one I was talking about. You can probably get it for next to nothing. I've just moved house, so I can't lay my hands on my copy currently.

The only problem with the Fallout collection is Fallout Tactics, which is a bit ass.
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#43 User is offline   FFreak3 Icon

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 09:18 PM

they, (the open source community), did remake XCOM.

See, UFO: alien Invasion, amoung a few others.

http://ufoai.sourceforge.net/
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#44 User is offline   joshofalltrades Icon

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 10:34 PM

Speaking of Fallout, I'm pretty excited about the new one. If you couldn't tell, first person atmospheric RPGs are definitely up my alley. And Bethesda is doing it. The criticisms of Oblivion were valid, but I still spent way too many hours on that game thanks to owning the PC version (hooray modding community). So it's definitely the PC version of Fallout 3 for me, too, since I need to validate my new computer purchase.
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#45 User is offline   Maggot4Life Icon

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 01:34 AM

Yes yes yes. First person RPG's are one of my favourite genres, or sub-genres i guess. Ever since Ultima: Underworld I'm addicted to the FPRPG thang. To be honest I only got Oblivion about three days ago and it is pretty good (haha same music as ARENA). But I just hope Bethesda doesn't completely revolutionise Fallout 3 annd turn it in to Oblivion in the future. Oh and thanks Relicc but maybe I'll just find someone here on Ebay and buy it off them.
GAMETRADERS OPENED YESTERDAY!!! THEY ARE PIMP! Yet they dont have the fallout collection... (bastards) Still, lots of PC games and PS1 games that I am dying to set my hands on. FF9 you will come to me. One day... wtf, I dunt know if this was a typo or something but the pricetag for FF7 was $99.95. What the hell?
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