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Clone Wars Movie Premiers AP says "Fun though forgettable"

#31 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:04 PM

"Lucas actually introduced Failoni as "My Padawan" and told him 'Look, I'm teaching you guys how to make Star Wars.' (Failoni said he listened 'very seriously')."

Huh, strange thing is, I had a feeling that Lucas was going to play Emporer here. Lucas just had to do it, didn't he? Filoni is not a padawan, he's Lucas' new sith in training.

If Filoni knew about shows like Cowboy Bebop, then he's got to know a Samurai Champloo. Why didn't he do a writing approach like that? Being that Jedi seem to be intergalctic "samurai" in a sense from SHoSW, Filoni could have watched a number of stable anime and made a really good plot from there.

"we were looking at things like Cowboy Bebop and we were looking at Naruto and Hayao Miyazaki, and we were just amazed by that. But I had to tell the crews I had, "Look guys. We can try and be fans, but we also want to try and be there and say, 'Wow, we like that. Let's try and make something that good"

All I can say is, if Filoni wanted this, then it had to be Lucas to stomp it down. It sounds as if Filoni had a style that he was going to emulate and possibly make it work, but I do not have a doubt that Lucas stood over his shoulder and shot down anything that could have been "mature" based on an anime upbringing. Lucas, like Disney is taking away the real meat & potatoes of film and making all this "family oriented" crap that only takes away from the overall impression that these films are supposed to make.
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#32 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 11:56 PM

QUOTE (Vesuvius @ Aug 20 2008, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Filoni knew about shows like Cowboy Bebop, then he's got to know a Samurai Champloo. Why didn't he do a writing approach like that? Being that Jedi seem to be intergalctic "samurai" in a sense from SHoSW, Filoni could have watched a number of stable anime and made a really good plot from there.

"we were looking at things like Cowboy Bebop and we were looking at Naruto and Hayao Miyazaki, and we were just amazed by that. But I had to tell the crews I had, "Look guys. We can try and be fans, but we also want to try and be there and say, 'Wow, we like that. Let's try and make something that good"

Well, if you read between the lines there note that Failoni says "we were looking at...". He didn't say "I watched", "I watched all of", "I loved" let alone "I've always been a big fan of". He doesn't launch into discussions about what impressed him about them either. Nope. He says "We were looking at..." which suggests to me he's not really familiar with any of these works. Bebop and Miyazaki in particular have been around for a long time. You could only be "just amazed by that" if you'd been locked in a deep freeze since 1979 say... Now compare that to someone like Tarantino who when he talks about films that inspired him will talk long and hard and very passionately about them.

Nah. Failoni is lying through his teeth here. Since the guy seems to be a schleb, he may well also be a phoney trying to associate himself with the greats by throwing their name around with his. I wonder if he can answer story or technical questions about the above works, or if he'd just splutter and start talking about "How great it is to be here" again.

QUOTE
All I can say is, if Filoni wanted this, then it had to be Lucas to stomp it down. It sounds as if Filoni had a style that he was going to emulate and possibly make it work, but I do not have a doubt that Lucas stood over his shoulder and shot down anything that could have been "mature" based on an anime upbringing. Lucas, like Disney is taking away the real meat & potatoes of film and making all this "family oriented" crap that only takes away from the overall impression that these films are supposed to make.


I don't buy that he did want to use those styles. We've already seen he has a weak CV, which means he must have used his fanboy charm which Lucas so responds so to talk himself into that job. Lucas for his part would have given Failoni the "Marquand Interview", in which the willingness of the applicant to submit to anything that Lucas has ever said, done or thought is of paramount importance. Since in his Press Interviews Failoni gushes about how great it is to be working with George and how this is his dream job, brown nosing is at least one thing he is very good at.

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#33 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE (Toru-chan @ Aug 20 2008, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now compare that to someone like Tarantino who when he talks about films that inspired him will talk long and hard and very passionately about them.

Yeah, got a point. Did you see "Lady Snowblood 1 & 2?" Tarantino got a lot from these films to make Kill Bill.

QUOTE (Toru-chan @ Aug 20 2008, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't buy that he did want to use those styles.
...Since in his Press Interviews Failoni gushes about how great it is to be working with George and how this is his dream job, brown nosing is at least one thing he is very good at.


Bleah! Then he turns right back around and talks about how he's going to mess everything up. Yeah, I can see why you don't buy into Filoni using real creative styles. It's just a sick story of revenge at this point. That fans are the ones that suffer from this.

Maybe Filoni and Lucas' actions on making the CW should be made into a movie. It would be quite entertaining to see a fanboy with a dark past, meet the creator with a dark future! Together they colide to make an epic story of hate, revenge, seduction, and plenty of unintentional lulz.
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#34 User is offline   Commodore Icon

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 12:49 PM

I've been cruising around other Star Wars/SciFi sites to get a better range of reactions, and the general opinion seems to be "it was corny, glitzy and a bit childish, but what else do you expect from Star Wars?". This attitude that Star Wars wasn't really that good to begin with, so we shouldn't expect a quality experience from any new Star Wars media, seems to be pretty widespread throughout the fandom, and it drives me up the wall. It's whiny apologist bullshit, pure and simple. Believe it or not, there was a time when good acting, solid writing and a character-driven story where not too much to expect from a Star Wars film. Star Wars was not always a mediocre, popcorn-wolfing experience fit only for small children. There was a time, not all that long ago, when Star Wars was the holy grail, a sweeping space opera that revolutionized moviemaking and fired the imaginations of a generation. And George Lucas just couldn't handle that, so he came along and shat all over it and turned Star Wars into dreck.

Never forget that once, Star Wars was great. We don't have to settle for garbage.
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#35 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 11:19 PM

My theory is that Lucas by accident tripped the religion-switch. That's why fanboys and ex-fanboys like us have a hard time walking away. We all saw Star Wars when we were young, and there was very little else out there. Evolutionary Biologist Richard Dawkins argues kids are very impressionable, because it's a good survival trait. Young kids in particular believe everything their parents tell them, e.g. "Don't swim in the crocodile infested river" and the kids that don't listen are removed from the gene pool. Dawkins argues this impressionability is how religion takes root, and I think he says something like 11 out of 12 kids will follow their parents religion. Once it's embedded it is possible to throw it off, but usually it sticks.

It's hard to throw your childhood beliefs. Even when I saw TPM, I didn't hate it, I was expecting it to be better, I knew some stuff like "The Pod Race" was there just to sell stuff. I didn't talk on the net in those days either and TESB is the only Star Wars movie my wife didn't sleep through. Took me about a year of quiet contemplation before I woke up one day and said "HEY! THAT MOVIE STANK!" I did think Lucas was a creative genius, so it didn't seem right that I couldn't like it. I mean, the guy had the Midas touch, right? SecretHistoryOfStarWars.com has been great therapy because it showed me that Lucas isn't the creative genius he's made out to be. Until I read that, I was always expecting Lucas to reform to his former greatness. Obviously, isn't going to happen... I guess there are a lot of fan boys out there who will never make the jump. Check out this reviewer:

QUOTE
‘The Clone Wars’ … Latest ‘Star Wars’ saga is aimed at capturing younger audiences
Kevin Carr, DL-Online

Moreso, there’s a special tenderness I have for “The Clone Wars,” and it comes from watching the film’s effect on my two sons, ages five and seven. For years, I have been trying to interest them in the Star Wars saga. A few months back, I even made them sit down and watch the original film on DVD…and they were underwhelmed.

Maybe it is a generational thing, but they were more interested in watching “Jimmy Neutron: Boy Genius” than anything Star Wars. Even when I pulled out the more contemporary Clone Wars cartoons, they were left somewhat disenchanted.

Now, they are all about “Star Wars.” We’re planning on watching the movies now as a family over a series of Friday nights, and after seeing the film, I was giddy at the fact they were running around the house with toy lightsabers. So, no matter how many warts can be found in this new and lighter version of “Star Wars,” I will have a special love for it because it has now brought my children to the fold, and for a self-admitted Star Wars baby like me, that is a beautiful thing.

http://www.dl-online...n=entertainment

These are pretty typical:

"The Clone Wars — Mediocre, Not Detestable"
http://www.free-time...012008083806620

"'Star Wars: The Clone Wars' is OK for the Kids"
http://www.sanfernan...i...11&Itemid=1

However, he has got a roasting this time from some serious fanboys like Harry Knowles who finally realized that wasn't refried beans in his Taco after all. Even theforce.net doesn't say anything one way or another. (All they say is "The BIG Clone Wars Post! The links keep coming (8/20)" LOL. Is that the best they can do?) Lucas may poo-poo the reaction of grown up fanboys, but won't be many kids screaming for an $80 Ashoka Tano Figurine. Harry said he was going to buy that $200 Falcon before he saw the movie. Now he decided to pass. IMDB has a lot of positive user reviews for Clone Wars. Curious. I wonder if any / how many of those as Astroturfers? (If a studio could make $700M for a movie, wouldn't you think they'd have people out there looking to "mold public opinion"?)

QUOTE (Commodore @ Aug 21 2008, 03:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Never forget that once, Star Wars was great. We don't have to settle for garbage.

Yes!

For a Star Wars film, Clone Wars hasn't done that well at the box office. Pundits reckon it'll make $40M-$50M; numbers many indy film makers dream of, but for Star Wars, it's not very good. My only hope is that this movies intended audience, kids, don't take to it. If they stop watching the TV show and don't ask for the toys, he may comprehend he's screwed up. But with Yes-man Rick McCallum already producing the Live Action TV Series, I'm not expecting any improvement.

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 20 August 2008 - 11:20 PM

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#36 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:24 AM

Well, I got home not long ago after seeing it at a local theater with a friend of mine for something fun to do before classes began again. We both know it was probably going to suck. Saw the 9:30 show and there were 20 minutes of previews and we were the only people in the theater.

I was expecting it to be horrible, but it really wasn't. Dull at times, but overall just mediocre. Not offensively bad at times and cool at other times like Episode I, not boring and horrible like the Holiday Special, not half boring, a quarter bad and a quarter awesome like Episode II, and not mostly awesome with a few stupid parts like III.

The stiff animation I got used to after a time. I noted the utter lack of text anywhere in the film (other than the title "Star Wars: Clone Wars" graphic). Kids can read, right? Or are the parents too lazy to read the subtitles to their kids? (I remember my dad reading Greedo's lines to me in the theater).

Yes, it felt like a video game, and the childish humor I got used to.

I don't know what else to say, except there were a few cool "moments" (like cool moments in a video game), rather than great scenes that leave you feeling satisfied or are so cool you don't want them to end (like in so many good movies). Yes, I feel like the "Clone War" is just getting more and more drawn out. How many more ways can we see the battles of Episode II replayed? Agreed there.

The characters were fine, but they didn't act like the live action versions of themselves. Basically you had two types of characters... over the top spunky characters who didn't take their surroundings seriously and boring talking head types.

So it wasn't terrible, just not really great either, not standout stuff, like showing this in theaters was an afterthought (and my main motivation for seeing it was that it would never look this good on the small screen).
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#37 User is offline   HK 47 Icon

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 04:22 AM

QUOTE (Toru-chan @ Aug 20 2008, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My theory is that Lucas by accident tripped the religion-switch. That's why fanboys and ex-fanboys like us have a hard time walking away. We all saw Star Wars when we were young, and there was very little else out there. Evolutionary Biologist Richard Dawkins argues kids are very impressionable, because it's a good survival trait. Young kids in particular believe everything their parents tell them, e.g. "Don't swim in the crocodile infested river" and the kids that don't listen are removed from the gene pool. Dawkins argues this impressionability is how religion takes root, and I think he says something like 11 out of 12 kids will follow their parents religion. Once it's embedded it is possible to throw it off, but usually it sticks.


Totally and completely agree! It took me about a year to accept the Epic Fail of Episode I. I recall walking out of the theatre with a feeling of complete emptiness, very confused about my feelings for the film. Then I recall trying to justify all the crap I'd just experienced, telling myself it wasn't so bad after all. In the end I couldn't bear lying to myself, and that's when I found Chefelfs list...

The connection to Dawkins you make is most interesting. I read his books too, a brilliant man. A lot of us experienced Star Wars at a very young age so I guess the theory is plausible smile.gif
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#38 User is offline   Itaritz Icon

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 11:47 AM

You know, I'm reminded of what George Lucas said on 60 Minutes just before the release of Episode III, upon being asked if there would ever be an Episode VII. I can't find it on youtube, but his response was something to the effect of "No, there is no Episode VII. I've had enough success to be able to fail for the rest of my life. I want to spend the rest of my life making little frilly films that no one will want to watch. *laughs*"

Congratulations, Mr. Lucas. You have achieved your goal.
When in doubt, plead sarcasm.


The ETSP - Worst. Website. Ever.
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#39 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:06 PM

Interesting.

When I got into SW, I loved every bit of it. When EP I came out, I was just out of highschool, turned 18, and saw it. I felt very confused after the film because to me, it didn't feel anything like what any of the OT gave me. I liked EP I the first time I saw it, because the sound was great in the theater, but I could not get over Anakin or a few of the scenes that lingered on pointlessly.

Before EP II came out, I came to dislike EPI quite a bit. EP II was a step up but even that died in me rather quickly. EP III was seen only for closure and it did nothing for me. I felt that the entire PT lied to me and I was reminded by fanboys that this is all from Lucas' "certain point of view."

This will all come to an end, one day... and hopefully someone makes the real PT as described by the events in the books of the OT.
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#40 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:38 PM

I thought it was alright.

Nothing special, but a pretty fun way to waste an hour and a half nonetheless. I just don't understand why it was released in the cinema- it plays like exactly what it should be, a straight to DVD stocking filler for the kids.

I haven't read this site for a while, but a quick scan of the comments on this thread made me remember why I used to like coming here so much.

QUOTE
Believe it or not, there was a time when good acting, solid writing and a character-driven story where not too much to expect from a Star Wars film. Star Wars was not always a mediocre, popcorn-wolfing experience fit only for small children.


Classic fantasy land fanboyism!



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#41 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 01:39 AM

Thanks for the reviews, KurganX and Jariten. Glad you 'liked' it! wink.gif Maybe Chefelven alumni know better than to let their expectations get high when walking into any LucasFilm production post 1980? Reaction from Harry Knowles and other fanboys is understandable if they were still thinking Star Wars Universe + CGI + Many Episodes = Awesome. And really, it should be.

We've had many Sci-fi productions over the years, but none of us have given the swashbuckle that Star Wars once had (including the Prequels). Star Trek was always too full of "solve this episode quickly using bullshit pseudoscience" for my taste. Lucas owns a rich expanded Universe, and with the right people this production could have been awesome. With CGI, used properly, could have given us Star Wars movie every week really... Instead he's thrown up his hands at pleasing adults and chosen to play to the lowest (littlest) common demoninator.

Star Wars 1977 was a kid's film, even though it showed a smouldering Beru homestead and Berus. Star Wars 2008 gives us a Bratz Jedi and Fart Jokes. This could of and should have been awesome, but I don't think anyone here is suprised Lucas screwed the Tauntaun yet again.

QUOTE (HK 47 @ Aug 21 2008, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Totally and completely agree! It took me about a year to accept the Epic Fail of Episode I. I recall walking out of the theatre with a feeling of complete emptiness, very confused about my feelings for the film. Then I recall trying to justify all the crap I'd just experienced, telling myself it wasn't so bad after all. In the end I couldn't bear lying to myself, and that's when I found Chefelfs list...

Thanks, HK 47. Interesting that many of us went through a similar process. Guess it was too big a jump to walk out of the cinema after TPM and declare "Love it? No. Star Wars sucks. It truly sucks. I have lived my whole life a lie. Hey! Who's for icecream?"

I laughed...

QUOTE
The 22 Most Awful Moments in Science Fiction

#9: The Force

"The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." - Obi-Wan Kenobi, Star Wars

"The reading's off the chart - over 20,000. Even Master Yoda doesn't have a midichlorian count that high." - Qui-Gon Jin, Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace

In the original Star Wars trilogy the Force was a mystical energy that suffused all things and could be manipulated and sensed by a Jedi. In the prequel trilogy the Force isn't so much sensed as detected by a CSI blood test and the Jedi Powers are derived from microorganisms inside their DNA. Comparing the two approaches is like comparing years of martial arts training to picking up a floating video game power up.





#18: Star Trek fans often jealously ponder why Star Wars fans are allowed to walk around in Stormtrooper and Darth Vader costumes with a modicum of dignity, while their Borg and Klingon suits get them ejected from Ponderosa Steakhouse. The answer to their cosmic question is complex and likely painful, but it is best summarized by a single image. ...

http://www.something...cifi.php?page=1


BTW here's their Clone Wars Review. LULZ the Disembowled Zebra on Ashoka's Head.
http://www.something...e-wars-ziro.php

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 22 August 2008 - 01:40 AM

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#42 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 01:26 PM

Nice, Toru-chan, those links were a fresh helping of cynicism.
Delightful. And the "Home Jedi pregnancy kit" pic is classic. happy.gif
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#43 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 08:05 AM

This review and thesis is my personal chemo to Star Wars cancer :-|

TORU-CHAN'S REVIEW OF THE "CLONE WARS" MOVIE

"Clone Wars" is like watching someone else play a video game. At that, an old and not very good video game.



GAME OVER


The animation is bad. It has a cheap and nasty feel to it. You soon notice the Clonetroopers almost always talk behind closed helmets, even for scenes where it isn't a good idea. It saves on time-consuming facial animation and eliminates the need for actors to lip synch, but the result is one of detachment for the audience. A faceless clone is a faceless clone. You don't care if they live or die.

Lucas tried to personalise the Clonetroopers - kind of - by giving two of them names and others assorted hairstyles (which you only see in one short scene), but they all act and talk alike anyway. Even in one scene where Sith Ventress does a force neck crush on one of the named Clonetroopers, his helmet stays on. This saves the animators the time and effort of animating his face, but the scene would have worked better if, you know, we could actually see the look on his face.

Someone described the animation as "snap to pose" and that would be right. There's very little fluid animation here. The chiseled-wood look of the characters doesn't work. The backgrounds have very little detail. Honestly I felt like I was watching an old video game.



Ugly Animation is Ugly


Lucas and Filoni explained the dated, jerky animation as "paying homage" to the marionettes of "Thunderbirds". But after seeing far too many helmeted Clonetroopers talking, droids who of course don't need any facial animation or lip synching either, the low poly designs and cheap and nasty looking backgrounds, I'm left with the feeling Lucas was just being a cheapskate.

The direction is bad. Very rarely does a scene open with an establishing shot. You don't know the geometry of the battle, where the enemy must be held off, etc. It's just a lot of shooting. There are never any brilliant manouveres, flanking or counterattacks that might have you on the edge of your seat. (Even Tartakovsky had managed to pull this off in his three minute shorts!) Instead, Filoni has the two armies just walk straight at each other and shoot. (Take a look at the battle scenes in "Lord of the Rings" and compare them to "Clone Wars". Filoni is absolutely hopeless.)



This happens a lot...


Filoni claims to have been inspired by Japanese Animation Classics like Cowboy Bebop and Hayao Miyazaki. I find that very hard to believe, to the point I think he made that up. (The interview where he reveals his inspiration is thick with "weasel words"). He's been billed in the PR as "The Director of Avatar" and "The Writer of Avatar"; a popular American Cartoon. But a little digging shows he only directed 7 out of the 61 episodes of "Avatar", and only ever wrote just one. Before that he was a storyboard artist on a few features. He played no role in creating "Avatar"; that was two other guys. From what I've seen of "Clone Wars", I have to say Filoni is way out of his depth.

The story is bad. It's confused, meandering and boring for kids and adults alike. You can guess how it ends within the first few minutes: (Spoiler, like you care: Jedis rescue Huttlett, deliver to thankful Jabba the Hutt). The pacing of a movie is supposed to be what makes you want to keep watching; every five or so minutes a new development or piece of information. Here the pacing is bad. I just wanted it to be over.

The obstacles that stand in the characters way are solved by plot devices that come out of thin air. When the Huttlet gets sick, Ashoka takes him to the freighter's medical bay. A hologram medical droid appears out of thin air a la Star Trek (I guess fanboys were supposed to giggle excitedly) and cures him. Problem solved. You get the impression any problem can be solved in this film by having a character walk 30 metres and wait for the solution to appear. This is writing at its worst.



Yoda's transformation into a pompous, boring windbag is now complete


Promised scenes don't happen. When a Republic fleet is closing with a Droid fleet for a big space battle, Yoda makes some windbag comment, and next thing you know, it's all over.

When the "exactly as I imagined" end of the movie arrived, it was a let down: Jedis hand Jabba his Huttlet and fly away. There was no spontenous clapping, cheering or exhilaration from me or the woman asleep next to me.

There are a few new characters in the movie. Bratz Jedi Ashoka Tano is obviously intended to be Everygirl U.S.A. Ziro the Hutt with the Truman Capote voice is a bitchy, back-stabbing Gay stereotype. Other than that the characters are pretty much what you expect. Anakin is now "nice" and CGI Padme is just as wooden as Flesh-and-blood Padme.

Character development lets an audience build an emotional bond with the characters. Anakin and Ashoka bicker like a big brother with his kid sister. I'm not sure that qualifies as character development though. It just seemed pretty annoying. On the whole, the character development was very limited: Just the odd smile or kind word between Ashoka and Anakin. That's it. Mostly we are left with the feeling there is no bond between the characters at all. Obi-won and Anakin talk but there's no feeling or love, hate or even like between them - just nothing. The Clonetroopers are brave and all, dying in their hundreds. But apart from one fifteen second sequence (below), quickly brushed off, we're left with the impression they don't care and neither do the Jedi who lead them. If the audience doesn't care, maybe it's because the characters don't either.



If bickering is character development, then yes, this movie has character development


The voice acting varies between a reasonable impression of Obi-won by James Arnold Taylor to Samuel Jackson's dull monotone. I'm getting tired of Christopher Lee - his Dooku should be an awesome character, but he's just another bore. I'm tired of Yoda too; The amusing wizened gnome of the OT has been replaced with a pompous fool whose windbag of backwards-talk is wearing thin. As for lip synching, sometimes the lips don't even match the dialog.

There was only one moment of emotional resonance for me in the whole film: When Anakin has to tell one of the Clones he can't help him. It lasts fifteen seconds, and the Clone isn't bothered anyway. A ridiculous somersault leap by Anakin at the beginning (not to mention the return of flying R2-D2) establish that the rules of gravity can be turned off here whenever the story demands it. There's no situation they can't escape. We already know that all the characters live through to the adjoining movie anyway, and that they didn't introduce a Bratz Jedi to kill her and alienate a segment of toy buyers.

Throughout the whole movie, I couldn't find anything to care about. We have faceless expendable droids fighting faceless expendable Clonetroopers in deserted cities, using walk-towards-each-other-and-shoot battle formations. We've seen it all before, and this time is the least spectacular. The light sabre duels are completely devoid of suspense or tension, because we all know everyone lives. You just don't care. There's never anything at stake here.



How can a liberal director with a black g/f come up with so many racial and now sexual stereotypes?


The humor isn't funny; Jabba calling his son "Punky Muffin", Ashoka calling Anakin "Sky Guy" and him calling her "Snips". It's not funny, and how long did it take the writers to come up with that anyway? Near the start Obi-won stalls a Clone general with a "tea party". The Clone general gets angry at his stalling. I think this was meant to be funny too, but no one laughed.

Some people said "turn off your brain and enjoy it, it's just for kids". It's been pointed out the old Star Wars movies were for kids and adults alike, but lets go with that for the moment anyway. Is this really a kids show? I think Lucas really got his wires crossed here.

The plot is convoluted, boring and leaves nothing to the imagination. For adults, this is tedious but kids may be less demanding; able to tolerate a poor plot so long as there is plenty of action and CGI eye candy. But the battles are boring and repetitive. The light sabre duels too. The CGI eye candy? Watching "Clone Wars" is like watching someone else play a video game. Kids may be more likely to shrug and put on a video game instead, or watch something else. "Clone Wars" is violent too, particularly for the (parents of) the younger kids it is pitched at. Now kids are used to violence. It's "cool", but I'm not sure kids would find a decapitated clone, his head blown clear off, or another held up by a robot and shot at point blank through the chest, "cool." This makes the introduction of teen girl role model Ashoka Tano really weird. In trying to broaden the appeal of Star Wars, he may have made something that will appeal to no one.

I'd give the movie 1 (*) star out of 4
4 = Excellent
3 = Good
2 = Just Ok
1 = Poor, but I didn't walk out
0 = I walked out

Will this Make George Lucas Even Richer?





Production costs for the animated series are claimed to be $1M per episode. That's bandied around over the net, but I can't find an original quote saying it is true. (The Live Action series is supposedly being produced for exactly this amount too... Crossed wires maybe?) But even so, there would be a lot of work that would go into pre-production work. There may be other millions to spend before they even started work on the first episode. They used a team of animators in Singapore (I count 34 people in their group photo); Singapore may be cheaper than the US, but Singapore is no third-world country. Commercial rents are high. Lucas has been quoted as saying feature animation costs 20-30 times what TV animation costs (although from the quote wasn't clear which series he was refering too), so they were going to use lots of techniques to cut costs. Even so, $1M per episode seems a little too low. Even with his jerky, crappy animation, and even if saving money by hiring your Filonis and Kiners instead of your Tartakovskys and Williameses, he still had your Lees, Jacksons and Daniels which I don't think work pro-bono. $1M an episode seems too cheap, even for cheap and nasty.

So lets assume he spent upwards of $1M per episode, the first series being 22 episodes, supposedly already sold to The Cartoon Network. No idea what he sold that for. Googling around, typical figures for cartoons come between $400K and high-end at $1M an episode. Let's assume Cartoon Network got giddy and agreed to pay him $1M an episode or even entire production costs. Could happen.

Now add the Movie; The reviews have hurt it - box office takings have dropped second week; let's say it still makes $25M-$40M at the box office. Now assume best case for Lucas that he managed to negotiate a sweeheart deal with the distributors and gets something like 75%. He still walks away with $18M-$30M. Add to that the merchandising deals for "Clone Wars" (they're making a novelization for crying out loud). Despite the negative reactions, Lucas has already turned a healthy profit for this, albeit nowhere near prequel takings.



I don't like where this is heading...


But... how much has it damaged the franchise? If kids don't watch, and the Cartoon Network have paid $22M upfront for a lemon, too bad. But Lucas has kept on making these cartoons; Last report I heard he was up to 40, so let's assume they're up to 50 by now. (Pretty dumb to make that many episodes, only having shown it to yes-men and Hasbro executives who can only see the toy tie-ins). That means Lucas would have shelled out a minimum $28M in advance. And if it doesn't deliver the toy sales, that half-a-billion payout will hurt Hasbro and maybe they'll cut their offer when their contract with him is up for renewal (circa. 2013). Worse, if the Cartoon Network show flops, the franchise itself will be in a lot of trouble. No Cartoon Network means fewer toy sales. It happened before to Lucas after the Original Trilogy ended its run. That still leaves the fanboys. They can shell out more (right now there's an Ashoka Tano figurine selling at starwars.com for a whopping $80), but even they have their limits. AintItCool Fanboy Harry Knowles said before he saw "Clone Wars" he was ready to buy a new $200 Millennium Falcon. After he saw it, he decided not to.

"Clone Wars" may end up being the first "Star Wars" project Lucas barely breaks even on, and based on quality and fanboy/critical reception, may have really hurt the franchise. Lucas isn't in this for the money any more: He's in it for the ego. He said he ignores reviews and Internet buzz. Money is the way he measures his success. This time I hope this time he gets the message, though on past experience he'd only blame his fans.

Will it kill the Franchise?



Dave Filoni: The perils of betting your franchise on an inexperienced yes-man fanboy.


One of the other fanboys at AintItCool said they wouldn't bother watching this even if it was on TV for free. I thought perhaps that was only said in anger, but now having seen the movie I can understand. I wouldn't either. Even if it's on TV, for free. It's tedious, the CGI primitive and the characterisations poor. As an adult, there are much better ways to spend my time. The real question is though, what do the kids think? Hasbro has a half-a-billion dollar contract with Hasbro, and the promotional CD-ROM on TV Guide was paid for by Toys R Us. If this isn't a hit with the kids, Lucas is in trouble.

One unintentionaly amusing review I read was by a guy desparately hoping that "Clone Wars" could spark off the same love for "Star Wars" in his kids that he had when he was young. But I think the difference is, when we were young, "Star Wars" was the only thing out there. At least, back then, "Star Wars" was pretty good. These days Kids have a huge choice. I just don't think "Clone Wars" stacks up very well to what else is out there.

There will always be diehard fanboys, theforce.bedwetters I call them, who stick to "Star Wars" no matter what. (I saw one of these saying "The negative press and the near-collective beat-down by movie critics did not help and I think CW could’ve racked up about $20-25 million had the press been more positive." LOL. You don't say?). But in the past we've seen some semi-popular TV series cancelled despite a small but vocal fan base.

We'll wait and see, but "Clone Wars" could end up being Lucas' equivalent of "Jaws 7".



IM IN UR RANCH, DESTROYING UR FRANCHISE

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#44 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 09:33 PM

Very good.

You saw it, gave your opinion, and it is nothing less than I expected.

I wonder, does this film fall into the category, "So bad, you have to see it?"
Because now this looks like a prime candidate to tear apart when you're bored. All for the LULZ.
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Posted 24 August 2008 - 11:21 PM

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! That guy in the hat is..... that's............. can it be?

TORGO?

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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