[Toru-chan]

Nailed it! It's a shame that even less popular actors have a better standing.

I'm happy to watch films with unknowns. Ok; Harrison Ford *is* Indiana Jones. He made that role his, but what's with Shia Lebeoff? (and I don't care if I spelled that wrong). And did having Liam Neeson in PT make any more people see it? Did the movie help his career? Much as I like him as an actor, I would have enjoyed the movie more with unknowns. (Well, let me rephrase that, *good* unknowns). Oh yeah. Shia's just been busted for drink driving, not too long after he was busted for being drunk in a Chemist. Cauley McCulkin must be his role model.

I for one am still impressed with Vin Diesel as a convict in Pitch Black, yet outside of acting, he's nothing like that character. The four actors you've mentioned are pretty much those people IRL. Oh, and don't forget, Billy Zane!

Never seen any of his movies, but that's interesting. As for Billy Zane, haven't heard about him in years.

BTW I'm not sure Will Smith has ever really acted anyway. He did kind of act in "Six Degrees of Separation (1993)", but the director was frustrated that he refused to kiss another male actor. He claimed he spoke to Denzel Washington who told him if he did that his fans would lose their respect for him. Will may be a Celebrity, but he's not an actor. Search your poorly acted feelings, Will. You *know* it to be true!

Yeah, this happened to me after watching Samurai Champloo. Jin was awesome and many people accused me of "acting like" him, but I was always like that. They just found a character that resembled my personality type.

There's a Dark Manga called "Berserk" set in medieval Europe about a band of mercenaries. The author said most of the characters were based on his friends at University. Best quote I ever saw about Bersek is: "I love Berserk. It's the most depressing thing I've ever seen." :-)

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 27 July 2008 - 08:43 PM

[Vesuvius]

I'm happy to watch films with unknowns. Ok; Harrison Ford *is* Indiana Jones. He made that role his, but what's with Shia Lebeoff? (and I don't care if I spelled that wrong). And did having Liam Neeson in PT make any more people see it? Did the movie help his career? Much as I like him as an actor, I would have enjoyed the movie more with unknowns. (Well, let me rephrase that, *good* unknowns).

Liam Neeson was cool in TPM! He was the only Jedi I respected in that film. I had no idea who he was niether did I know this Ewan Mcgregor kid, or that Jake Loyd, or that Portman chick...

After that film, then I started seeing them around in earlier or later films. Except Jake Loyd, that kid hasn't gotten a role since TPM. He was in Jingle all the Way, but that was a Schwarzenegger movie. Ewan Mcgregor had a stable trilogy to put out and he was much better in EP II and III. As for his other films, I don't think I'll be watching them. Seriously, I just wanted to see Star Wars.

Bleah, same goes for Natalie Portman. I only saw her because of SW. Then I stumbled over her when I saw Leon: The Professional.

[Toru-chan]

Liam Neeson was cool in TPM! He was the only Jedi I respected in that film. I had no idea who he was niether did I know this Ewan Mcgregor kid, or that Jake Loyd, or that Portman chick...

While Liam's always welcome to drop over for dinner, I didn't care for him in TPM. To me it was just too much "HEY! WOW! IT'S LIAM NEESON!" much like ChefElf's "HEY! WOW! IT'S JIMMY SMITS!" (And Jimmy is welcome too). I like the actors, but It just keep dragging what was supposed to be escapist fantasy back to Earth. Of course LOTR had some famous names too. Somehow they got away with it. Tom Cruise has shown he can be a good actor when he wants to be, but I'm glad they didn't cast him as Gandalf say. :-)

Ewan... hmm... He's proved himself as an actor too. I saw him in Trainspotting before he did this, and he's smart enough (or at least his agent is) to play a wide variety of roles. I've noticed this with new-stars-on-the-block. If their next movie is your typical Hollywood fare and it doesn't do well, they either disappear or drop a few pegs (Viggo Mortensen). But if they make their next movie something arty or a historic piece (Keneau Reeves), even if it doesn't make a lot of money, they've established themselves as a serious actor. Ewans played enough varied roles (his arty "The Pillow Book" is weird but interesting) to have set himself up *despite* the PT.

Bleah, same goes for Natalie Portman. I only saw her because of SW. Then I stumbled over her when I saw Leon: The Professional.

She didn't do much for me. Ok; nice abs, but as a heroine couldn't care if she lived or died. Based on her interviews I think she was to Padme what Will Smith is to his roles. I saw Hayden Christensen in a drama called "Shattered Glass." I didn't really push him dramatically, but he played the role well enough. Unlike Portman, he does at least *try* to act.

As for Jake Lloyd. Poor kid. I hope he divorced his parents.

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 28 July 2008 - 11:41 PM

[Vesuvius]

Tom Cruise has shown he can be a good actor when he wants to be, but I'm glad they didn't cast him as Gandalf say. :-)

Based on her interviews I think she was to Padme what Will Smith is to his roles. I saw Hayden Christensen in a drama called "Shattered Glass." I didn't really push him dramatically, but he played the role well enough. Unlike Portman, he does at least *try* to act.

As for Jake Lloyd. Poor kid. I hope he divorced his parents.

Heh, Tom Cruise as Gandalf.
If you get a chance, watch the hour long documentary on EP II's seconf disk. Portman was somewhat out of it as of what's to be going on around her, I blame Lucas though, but Christopher Lee actually began taking small bites out of everybody elses acting!

Hayden wasn't bad as Anakin, especially in the beginning of EP III, but I believe it to be more of a demotivated or untalented director that's the problem here. Hayden smelled in EP II for a number of his scenes, but I don't blame him... GL can't do drama or emotional plight.

Jake Lloyd. The first review I read about TPM strongly pointed out how bad this kid's acting was. When I saw the film, this stuck out like a sore thumb. I still can't get over his lines and the way he delivers them.

Young Boba only gets my notice because of his scowls and laughing at misfortune. But we didn't really need to see HIM as a child.

[Toru-chan]

Heh, Tom Cruise as Gandalf.

It's a good party game to miscast movies. I think we got Eddie Murphy as Frodo, Danny Devito as Aragorn, The Rock as Gollum, Liv Tyler as Arwen, etc.

If you get a chance, watch the hour long documentary on EP II's second disk. Portman was somewhat out of it as of what's to be going on around her, I blame Lucas though, but Christopher Lee actually began taking small bites out of everybody elses acting!

EP II? That sounds like Christopher Lee. He looks cool on screen and I heard he got some stuntman's lifetime achievement award, but later heard he doesn't do his own stunts? Too lazy to google that one to see if it's true though. BTW In one of the making off things I saw a CGI Ewan McGregor being knocked back by that force-hand thing. I was disgusted, because it was a pretty simple stunt.

Hayden wasn't bad as Anakin, especially in the beginning of EP III, but I believe it to be more of a demotivated or untalented director that's the problem here. Hayden smelled in EP II for a number of his scenes, but I don't blame him... GL can't do drama or emotional plight.

Ok. Serious question. How *do* you do drama or emotional plight? Once day I'd like to take a crack and making a DV movie for the fun of it, so I'm curious.

Jake Lloyd. The first review I read about TPM strongly pointed out how bad this kid's acting was. When I saw the film, this stuck out like a sore thumb. I still can't get over his lines and the way he delivers them.

Yeah, kid or not, he was a lousy actor, but it's the directors job to spot that and counter it, and not to cast him in the first place. Lucas is pretty crap at picking actors. To me Mark Hamil *is* Luke Skywalker, but I'll be honest I'm sure they could have put a better actor into the role. He did pick Harrison Ford though. As a friend once said 'Even a blind pig gets an acorn now and again'.

Young Boba only gets my notice because of his scowls and laughing at misfortune. But we didn't really need to see HIM as a child.

Not at all. It was a crap character because there was no depth to it. Anyway, we're lucky we didn't see young Han Solo pointing at a Millenium Falcon and saying 'When I grow up I'm going to fly one of those! Maybe even that one! (turns to camera and winks)' You can imagine the force.net fanboys in the audience wetting their Depends™ over that one.

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 30 July 2008 - 12:50 AM

[Vesuvius]

Ok. Serious question. How *do* you do drama or emotional plight? Once day I'd like to take a crack and making a DV movie for the fun of it, so I'm curious.

I'm no film student or guru, but to me, the music, depth of character, and his/her important relations to supporting characters and/or villains should make sense. Take ESB for example, Luke was stunned, confused, and we saw that he felt betrayed after Vader drops the knowledge on him. But in RotJ, it wasn't much a shock when we learn that Leia is his sister, but... get this, when Vader discovered it, it all of the sudden had importance.

Notice the music in these scenes. It built with suspense while impacting the audience.

Anakin leaving Tatooine wasn't tearing up anyone, let's get that out of the way now. If we had known Anakin longer, or if we had an older Anakin already a padawan, we could relate better with him. If the audience was given a look at Anakin's trials, not only as a Jedi, but as a flawed person, the audience could better relate to that.

What made the opening of Bram Stoker's Dracula work so well? We had a quick narrative, a man in love fighting for his land, wanting to go home to his wife, and it's all ruined because of the fight he was in, but it wasn't his fault. The music builds and this dude goes batsh*t insane on everything, but we understand why!

Anyway, we're lucky we didn't see young Han Solo pointing at a Millenium Falcon and saying 'When I grow up I'm going to fly one of those! Maybe even that one! (turns to camera and winks)' You can imagine the force.net fanboys in the audience wetting their Depends™ over that one.

It would then be a rehash of young Anakin saying he wants to visit all the stars in the galaxy. Some people love the blatantly obvious, whilst some of us cringe.

Made me laugh though, nice one.

[Toru-chan]

I'm no film student or guru, but to me, the music, depth of character, and his/her important relations to supporting characters and/or villains should make sense. Take ESB for example, Luke was stunned, confused, and we saw that he felt betrayed after Vader drops the knowledge on him. But in RotJ, it wasn't much a shock when we learn that Leia is his sister, but... get this, when Vader discovered it, it all of the sudden had importance.

Interesting. I've read a bit of writing fiction (as in novels): authors like Orson Scott Card, Dean Kootz and many others talk quite a bit about how they do it. I may be wrong, but it could be that the sort of thing important for writing a novel ("make them want to keep reading") take a different form on the screen. In a novel you can make the whole thing about a single character. If you did a movie like that, it'd look pretty weird. So ok, Critical: interaction between the characters is a big part and you need the audience to care about characters.

Next question: Why do we care about characters we know are made up? That suspension of disbelief thing, sure. But how is that achieved? I guess easy way is to compare where it did work (above) with where it didn't (below):

Anakin leaving Tatooine wasn't tearing up anyone, let's get that out of the way now. If we had known Anakin longer, or if we had an older Anakin already a padawan, we could relate better with him. If the audience was given a look at Anakin's trials, not only as a Jedi, but as a flawed person, the audience could better relate to that.

Likable actors is part of that. The kid was a lousy actor. Liam was still Liam. Portman was annoying: loud and what emotion she did express seemed feigned. Ewan wasn't taxed as an actor, and we knew he lived anyway. Same with the droids: In OT 3PO lived in fear of being broken up. In PT we knew he lived anyway. If they get blown up they get fixed. I'm detecting a stuff up here: In heroic stories we know our hero lives, so a good storyteller places characters we care about close to them, and we place our fear for them. Lucas never did that. The only expendables were Qui Gon and Jar Jar. Qui Gon was always Liam to me, and even if you liked him in the role a good warrior's death is still a good warrior's death. And I guessed he died anyway because his character wasn't in the OT. And Jar Jar was a fricking cartoon character, an annoying one like that.

So I'd say a major flaw in PT wasn't just the plot - or lack thereof, but the fact the fact the characters were crap. Now a good actor should be able to save that, but even if they could can you imagine them going up against GL's direction? No way. And truth is until we saw GL stumble so badly with PT, they had no reason to question him either. They just assumed something wonderful would pop out the end.

And I'm thinking through AOTC and ROTS and I don't recall any bit character who I cared for. We had the permanents, and people we knew who were going to die (Mace Windu and Jimmy Smits. Sorry. I mean Bail Organa). These characters were written like idiots. Mace continually acted like a fool. And then when he finally confronts CGI-spinning Palpatine (what idiot thought that up?) him and his merry men (deserved to) lose. And then there was a huge CGI cast of wookies, roger-roger bots and cartoony insect things. There was no one to care about.

I'm watching a (non Sci-Fi) Japanese Office drama at the moment. It's pretty amazing, because it's a fricking office about a bunch of office workers. Yet within a few episodes you're in love with them, rooting for them; you care what happens to them. If good writers can make a fricking *office* come alive like that (and nobody even dies!), then how could you write a sci-fi fantasy and not have it lift the audience out of their seat?

GL can certainly make stuff happen and obviously he's been able to deliver some fantastic stuff in the past. But I guess through ego, he never realized what his weaknesses were. He should have hired the best people he could to fill those roles, and left himself as the creative force behind the series. Come up with the ideas. Let others refine them and make them come alive. I'm guessing pride got in the way, because Kasdan said not long before TPM began shooting they met and Lucas asked him to give it a look over. Kasdan realized he hadn't even written it. I guess Lucas procrastinated, didn't ask for help, and when it was too late, did it himself, and it sucked, but blinded by toy sales and a honeymoon period that lasted a year, he never realized how bad he screwed up. Well, I think he eventually realized, but he still did the other two episodes all by himself and I don't think learned much.

Notice the music in these scenes. It built with suspense while impacting the audience.

It makes a difference. Peter Jackson was quoted he felt a huge change in LOTR when the score was mixed.

It would then be a rehash of young Anakin saying he wants to visit all the stars in the galaxy. Some people love the blatantly obvious, whilst some of us cringe. Made me laugh though, nice one.

I'd suggest doing a satire for it, but you couldn't do a better Star Wars parody than the PT anyway!

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 05 August 2008 - 05:44 AM

[Vesuvius]

When you mention characters that no one cared about, here's the problem, there was no development for these characters.

I can honestly say I hated it when Darth Maul died! He was an elusive character that needed a bit more developing in the sense of the PT, not EU comics and novels. Seriously, what made Darth Vader the villain that we cheer for in the OT? His elusive quality, broken history from Obi-wan, and the desire to know more about him.

Backstory should have been included for the characters that we're supposed to like and cheer for. Because no real backstory was given to Mace Windu, or his buddies, we didn't really care if they got killed. TPM should have started off completely different. I'm thinking in a way that will quickly estabish character formations, all while enticing the audience to keep watching because these characters are friggin' cool! And it doesn't have to be done with non-stop "edge of your seat" action.

[Dorothy]

Liam Neeson was cool in TPM! He was the only Jedi I respected in that film.

I found Neeson super annoying in TPM. He always came across to me as borderline Sith, and it honestly bugged me. I thought the character was wrong, and neeson was wrong for the role. This was supposed to be a time when the Jedi were strong, and you've got this flake, sneaking about, disobeying orders, training up stray waifs. It made no sense to me.

Ewan Mcgregor had a stable trilogy to put out and he was much better in EP II and III. As for his other films, I don't think I'll be watching them. Seriously, I just wanted to see Star Wars.

He seems to be a pretty odd guy. He usually picks odd roles. And he's pretty. I liked him.

Bleah, same goes for Natalie Portman. I only saw her because of SW. Then I stumbled over her when I saw Leon: The Professional.

Funny, I was talking to my friend about how portman ruined The Other Boleyn girl, and I told her that she could trace it back to GL. It will be fascinating to see what other movies GL ruins, vicariously.

Tom Cruise has shown he can be a good actor when he wants to be....

Everytime I see him, I mistake him for the mayor of crazytown. I can't help it.

Unlike Portman, he does at least *try* to act.

Hayden wasn't bad as Anakin, especially in the beginning of EP III, but I believe it to be more of a demotivated or untalented director that's the problem here. Hayden smelled in EP II for a number of his scenes, but I don't blame him... GL can't do drama or emotional plight.

Are you kidding me? You forget who Anakin was supposed to be! Hayden never grew out of the whiney faze to a mature "holy crap, it's the dark lord of the frakin' sith!!" I found his "acting skills" to be as lacking as the material handed him. Ok, I rate him right at the acting level of a Paul Walker. "HEY!! LOOK OVER THERE!! WHAT ARE THOSE JEDI OVER THERE DOING??!?" Sorry, I can't do a PW justice. Comparing the progression of Luke from farm boy to Jedi, to Anakin from freak of nature to freak of nature, you can really see how the characters are similar. The problem is, that while Luke eventually grew up, and stopped whining, Anakin never did. It would be different if Anakin wasn't supposed to be frightening.

Jake Lloyd...Young Boba...

All children shoud have been banned from the trilogy. They were pointless. Like replacing a sitcom character mid-season with an adorable kid. Vomit.

EP II? That sounds like Christopher Lee. He looks cool on screen and I heard he got some stuntman's lifetime achievement award, but later heard he doesn't do his own stunts?

Also, he is 400 years old.

I can honestly say I hated it when Darth Maul died! He was an elusive character that needed a bit more developing in the sense of the PT, not EU comics and novels. Seriously, what made Darth Vader the villain that we cheer for in the OT? His elusive quality, broken history from Obi-wan, and the desire to know more about him.

I was sad because he didn't get to flip around more. And with his shirt off.

Backstory should have been included for the characters that we're supposed to like and cheer for. Because no real backstory was given to Mace Windu, or his buddies, we didn't really care if they got killed.

You don't even need a backstory, as such, if you have really likeable and compelling characters. Or characters with names. Names help.

[Vesuvius]

I found Neeson super annoying in TPM. He always came across to me as borderline Sith, and it honestly bugged me.

Heh, this is why I liked him, because he knew the Jedi had their flaws, even in all of their "order." I could and still can easily relate to the character. Not Neeson, just the character.

Are you kidding me? You forget who Anakin was supposed to be! Hayden never grew out of the whiney faze to a mature "holy crap, it's the dark lord of the frakin' sith!!" I found his "acting skills" to be as lacking as the material handed him. Ok, I rate him right at the acting level of a Paul Walker. "HEY!! LOOK OVER THERE!! WHAT ARE THOSE JEDI OVER THERE DOING??!?" Sorry, I can't do a PW justice. Comparing the progression of Luke from farm boy to Jedi, to Anakin from freak of nature to freak of nature, you can really see how the characters are similar. The problem is, that while Luke eventually grew up, and stopped whining, Anakin never did. It would be different if Anakin wasn't supposed to be frightening.

Okay, I laughed about your PW anology. Nice. And although I can't so much blame Hayden, I do blame Lucas for casting him so readily and not working with him to be who we know him to become.
You said it very well in your last sentance and I have to agree fully with it.

All children shoud have been banned from the trilogy. They were pointless. Like replacing a sitcom character mid-season with an adorable kid. Vomit.

Hmmm, no kids in the OT whatsoever, why was it done in the PT so much? Failure resulted.

I was sad because he didn't get to flip around more. And with his shirt off.

See! They could have shown some serious Jedi whippin' in EP II and III if this guy had lived! Possibly the worst mistake Lucas made besides directing the PT.

[Dorothy]

Heh, this is why I liked him, because he knew the Jedi had their flaws, even in all of their "order." I could and still can easily relate to the character. Not Neeson, just the character.

I can understand the character as well, I just don't like that the Jedi weren't ever set up as "the people to beat." They just sat around like a bunch of old biddies, complaining and making rules that no-one followed. In the OT, they were pretty much the most awesome thing about the universe, and in the PT they were senile. I could understand the "balance to the force" thing a lot more if the force were in some way, uneven. The sith were plotting and not entirely powerful, the Jedi were sitting around and not entirely powerful. How is this not balance? Neeson just embodies, for me, everything cool about the jedi that was lost in the PT.

Okay, I laughed about your PW anology. Nice. And although I can't so much blame Hayden, I do blame Lucas for casting him so readily and not working with him to be who we know him to become. You said it very well in your last sentance and I have to agree fully with it.

It is one of the joys of my life to mock PW. As far as whether Hayden can act or not, clouded his future is. There is much doubt in me.

Hmmm, no kids in the OT whatsoever, why was it done in the PT so much? Failure resulted.

Exactly. The OT was for adults by adults. Everything that GL has done for or using children has been disastrous. All children should be banned. From most everything.

See! They could have shown some serious Jedi whippin' in EP II and III if this guy had lived! Possibly the worst mistake Lucas made besides directing the PT.

I dunno, he probably knew that D.Maul would be beloved, and cut his part short to make people crazy. Imagine what the PT had been if it'd had a Vader quality baddie. Makes me sad, inside.

[Vesuvius]

I can understand the character as well, I just don't like that the Jedi weren't ever set up as "the people to beat." They just sat around like a bunch of old biddies, complaining and making rules that no-one followed. In the OT, they were pretty much the most awesome thing about the universe, and in the PT they were senile. I could understand the "balance to the force" thing a lot more if the force were in some way, uneven. The sith were plotting and not entirely powerful, the Jedi were sitting around and not entirely powerful. How is this not balance? Neeson just embodies, for me, everything cool about the jedi that was lost in the PT.

I dunno, he probably knew that D.Maul would be beloved, and cut his part short to make people crazy. Imagine what the PT had been if it'd had a Vader quality baddie. Makes me sad, inside.

I understand now further your sight in this matter (Neeson). And in addition to the first paragraph and your view of the Jedi ruined, Maul made it all happen due to his devotion to the Sith. I see that the problem was with the Jedi that didn't care about the Order. All while Maul on the other hand lived strictly to his beliefs. Heh, this reminds me of a quote, "The bad work harder to get to hell while the good don't work hard enough to get to heaven."

Maul was too powerfull a character for even Lucas to control it seems. The Jedi order needed some serious hard@sses, not just fickle, careless, or rugrats, to "investigate" problems. They were complacent and weak... yet I highly doubt that this was the intended message given to us.

Aside from Maul being an action figure sales pitch, he was a solid character that should have been THE bad@ss that Jedi feared in the PT. If Anakin beat that guy, then I can believe him being Darth Vader that we know and respect in the OT.

This post has been edited by Vesuvius: 07 August 2008 - 01:21 AM

[Toru-chan]

When you mention characters that no one cared about, here's the problem, there was no development for these characters.

You don't even need a backstory, as such, if you have really likeable and compelling characters. Or characters with names. Names help.

Liking a character on the screen is similar to liking a character in real life. In RL within a minute of meeting someone you've made initial judements about liking them. Lucas did this in the EP IV fairly well; Alec Guiness immediately personified as the kindly grandfather figure, comforting Artoo (remember everyone else ignored the droids), Harrison Ford's smug and cocky smile. Different things can make a character likeable to you; it's influenced by your own personality, likes, dislikes, culture and what memes appeal to you. They don't need to be a superhero even. I'm noticing this in the dramas I've been watching. The people are pretty "normal". Dressing them in a brown desert^H^H^H^H^H^H robe and giving them a light sabre doesn't in and of itself make them "likeable". A few other things: Likeable also means the characters can't behave like idiots. If they keep doing dumb things, are slow to grip the bleeding obvious, you lose patience with them.

Backstory helps flesh a character out. I've noticed the more time I spend with "likeable" characters, the more I know about them, the more I can relate for them; The more they become like old friends. Novelists use backstory a lot. So do Animes (which have a lot of episodes to work with). Movies often don't because they've only a couple of hours, but when movies become turn into the series (ie. like Star Wars) the film maker has a chance to give that backstory. The whole PT was *supposed* to be backstory.

Instead we got a cookie-cutter version of SW4; Both TPM and SW4 start off with a quick battle, followed by (some sort of) slower "character development". In TPM the effort fell flat on its face, which brings us to...

I can understand the character as well, I just don't like that the Jedi weren't ever set up as "the people to beat." They just sat around like a bunch of old biddies, complaining and making rules that no-one followed. In the OT, they were pretty much the most awesome thing about the universe, and in the PT they were senile. ... Neeson just embodies, for me, everything cool about the jedi that was lost in the PT.

Something bugged me about him. I didn't know what, but I think that's it: At the start of TPM that fish thing goes "Oh no! Jedi!", but when they show up, they're pretty unimpressive. Liam, Ewan act like a couple of bureaucrats. The Jedi council literally sits on its ass and can't grasp the bleeding obvious. GL may have said once that they fell from arrogance, but we never saw them when they were good.

I can honestly say I hated it when Darth Maul died! He was an elusive character that needed a bit more developing in the sense of the PT, not EU comics and novels. Seriously, what made Darth Vader the villain that we cheer for in the OT? His elusive quality, broken history from Obi-wan, and the desire to know more about him.

I got to say I liked him dying on principle: I hate bad guy lives to fight another day. The actor who played Maul was pretty good; aside from all the fight choreography, he used his eyes well - to me he was menacing and vulnerable at the same time. Vulnerable is good - it means people can die c.f. cartoon villains. I almost forget that there were small parts of TPM that worked: When Maul fought on Tatooine he was good. And the way he deployed those snooperbots to scout for them: Unlike the useless fricking Jedi, Maul actually used his brain. Also I assumed some equally cool badass would replace him. Instead we got Christopher Lee. Dooku never worked for me. What he was doing never made sense anyway. Maul on the other hand was genuinely menacing, but Christopher Lee was playing Christopher Lee. That triple-double-flip at the start of ROTS was perhaps one of the stupid pieces of CGI in motion picture history. I mean, come on.

The Jedi should have been badasses themselves. Instead of wandering around like bumbling idiots lead by Mace's stupid scowl and Yoda's annoying pomposity (saying dumb things in a wise voice), they should have been fighting the Sith. Only two Sith? Nice idea GL, but a bad choice. Lots of Sith would have made for a more credible threat.

They should have replaced the slow-witted government bureaucrats Qi Gon and Obi Won with a couple of sharp mystic warriors (no midichlorian blood test please). The Jedi council looked like a fancy-dress party, and spent more time polishing their asses than they did fighting. When they did fight, they lost. How are we supposed to root for these guys? But with Maul gone we only have triple-spinning Palpatine and brat-cum-whiny Anakin on the other side. We can't even root for the bad guys.

Looking back, I realise the PT could have been and should have been awesome. What an incredible wasted opportunity.

[Vesuvius]

They should have replaced the slow-witted government bureaucrats Qi Gon and Obi Won with a couple of sharp mystic warriors (no midichlorian blood test please). The Jedi council looked like a fancy-dress party, and spent more time polishing their asses than they did fighting. When they did fight, they lost. How are we supposed to root for these guys? But with Maul gone we only have triple-spinning Palpatine and brat-cum-whiny Anakin on the other side. We can't even root for the bad guys.

Looking back, I realise the PT could have been and should have been awesome. What an incredible wasted opportunity.

Awesome! Get rid of midichlorians completely. Lucas turned The Force into what seems like a disease or a mutation. The Jedi and Sith are no more than infected X-men now.

I dunno, I'm hoping someone could resurrect life into this saga, but it will never be what the OT gave us. And anyone trying to make a film with a "laser sword" or "energy beam saber" is going to be quickly ripped to shreds for "mocking" SW. I'd say that SW was the first and last of sci-fi that could appeal to young and old alike, and instead of it peacefully dying out with an entire legend of history behind it, it keeps getting worse with each new instalment. SW is following the trend of Family Matters, Power Rangers, and few other shows that were a lot of fun durring their prime, but kept running on and on and getting rediculous.

It's like a tv series that was great with only 3 or 4 seasons. The first season instroduced something new and different, the second and third seasons were awesome, and the fourth season wraps it alll up. The problem comes when marketing takes over where the story should be finished. I'm not even bashing fan-finction or EU stuff because that's all fun anyway. My complaint would be with the creator of something that no longer holds his creation together because he's focusing on an audience that just wants toys and games.

[Toru-chan]

The Jedi and Sith are no more than infected X-men now.

Ha ha. It's funny because it's true. We could have had a much better Darth Vader. Instead of the whiny Anakin we could have had a charming, barrel-chested hero who turned to the dark side for more believable reasons; He believed it was the necessary to use it to win against the Sith, but thought he could control it. Or maybe he gets handed more and more morally dubious missions, but gets slowly sucked in by the prestige and the power. It happens a lot so it's not really hard to demonstrate the absolute power corrupts absolutely meme, and it would have been much more believable than the turn-to-the-dark-side-to-save-wife-because-you're-having-bad-dreams-and-then-strangle-her-anyway thing. It would have made a much better story. I just can't imagine Hayden in that Darth Vader suit. He's too skinny, and doesn't act or talk like him. Yeah I know fanboys will tell you the mask changes his voice but puleaze.

And anyone trying to make a film with a "laser sword" or "energy beam saber" is going to be quickly ripped to shreds for "mocking" SW.

The old Gundam anime series has laser swords BTW...

I dunno, I'm hoping someone could resurrect life into this saga, but it will never be what the OT gave us.

Is there still mileage in it? In theory, lots. The problem is GL is the gatekeeper, and it's clear he's deserted his original fan base for the easy bucks from kids and the bedwetting fanboys of force.net. I think on that South Park they made a good point: The movie doesn't belong to him; it belongs to all of us. Unfortunately IP laws, bought to you by the same Congre$$men that let Disney write their own IP laws http://www.peteryu.com/IPLB0403.pdf, says Mr. Lucas owns SW lock, stock and barrel and you'll never get it away from him. End of Story.

For that reason, the franchise is dead (from a certain point of view). When Lucas himself dies, it'll be remade one day and hopefully not by the Grandson of Michael *EXPLOSIONS* Bay. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. Star Wars is your childhood sweetheart, a crack cocaine junkie perpetually pregnant to a string of lowlife, but she wants nothing to do with you. She cannot be saved. She doesn't care what you think. She'll take any money you offer her, but won't change her ways. It's well and truly over.

I'd say lets make our own stuff. Software like 3DSMAX and Blender let anyone with a PC do pretty awesome SFX. You might not have ILM's renderfarms, but too much CGI isn't a good thing anyway. Digital Video (DV) cameras are getting cheap ... You can get Hi-Definition 24P semi-pro cameras for under a grand now. Torrent lets you distribute your movies over the net for nothing; much easier than getting a deal from a movie distributor (who will screw you anyway). You can make movies on a shoestring these days. There are web sites for connecting people who want to make films in their local area, and there's a ton of books and videos showing you how to do it (well). There are already fanboys out there making short Star Wars ripoffs, and there's a thriving DV movie scene (though they tend to do "art"). Lucas took an old meme, refurbished it and wowed us, and now he's driving it off bridges and into brick walls. Instead of watching with wide-eyed horror, yell out "GEORGE YOU SUCK!" and do your own thing. We've all got ideas how to do a better Star Wars than Star Wars. At first it might not look as slick as what GL churns out, but even your first one can be much better.

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 08 August 2008 - 02:36 AM