[Toru-chan]

One theme I liked in the original Star Wars movies was how robots were second-class citizens. Threepio lived in fear of being broken up into scrap. Humans either ignored them or abused them. But by the time the Star Wars prequels rolled out this was all forgotten. Suddenly Padme is giving an unknown R2 unit a medal for 'bravely fixing the spacecraft while under fire'. LOLWUT? Anakin treats the robots with far more respect then Luke, Han or Leia ever did. Even when Anakin flips out, he's still nice to R2 (like the guy who knows, even if he had a lousy day at work, don't take it out on your dog).

Suppose if you ask George what happened here, he'd retro-invent some excuse to explain this, but suspect he just forgot about it. Robot rights didn't really tie in with the Pepsi-Phantom Menance promotional campaign... George may have moved on, but I stumbled on this Science-Fiction Series which picked up the theme nicely:

Riiko is an unlucky-at-love office worker, sick of being used or ignored by guys. She's overheard in a bar by Doctor Namikiri who might just have the answer: His company Kronos Heaven has just built their first-ever prototype of the Nightly-Series Robot Lovers. He wants Riiko to test "it". It sounds fine, but what happens when Riiko finally meets a nice (human) boyfriend? Did you hug your toaster before you threw it out? Or are you the sort of person that just *sells* your car when you want a new one?



It's pretty funny. You may find Robot "Night" annoying at first and Riiko a real rhymes-with-witch, but the characters quickly grow on you and it's very well made. It also does what Star Wars once did but long since gave up on: Making you think.

The "Absolute Boyfriend (Zettai Kareshi)" Series is unlikely to be licensed outside of Japan so you can find all 11 Episodes here (with English subtitles): http://tinyurl.com/6av55h

[Vesuvius]

Whoa! Isn't this Japanese sereies based on an American film, possibly made by Disney in the mid to late '80's? This looks somewhat familiar and really silly. I don't know if I want to check that link...

Speaking of "robot love" in Star Wars, it seems all the droids seemed like comodoties rather than companions. In a few of the books however, droids were a bit more important. I must say though, that with Anakin being so unstable, he did respect the droids. Giving a droid a medal of appreciation I think is going overboard.

Ahh, this makes me recall "The Second Renaissance 1 &2" on the Animatrix DVD, when the people turned against the droids and starting smashing and dumping all of the worker and "hooker" models.
As it was so eloquently said in that short, "Man is the architect of his own demise."
Then all the machines turned on them and (long story short) 3 entertaining philosophical Kung-fu movies.

Maybe the next frenchise in SW films would be a droid rebellion agianst the organics (meatbags). Possibly led by an HK model from the Old Republic...

[Toru-chan]

Whoa! Isn't this Japanese sereies based on an American film, possibly made by Disney in the mid to late '80's? This looks somewhat familiar and really silly. I don't know if I want to check that link...

Disney? Egads, man! Nothing like Disney. Japanese dramas are nothing like American ones, least of all Disney. They're deeper, happy endings aren't guaranteed and they usually only ever run for one season. This particularly story is based on a Japanese Manga, although adultized. This one starts silly... you can't suggest someone try a love robot with a straight face.. but, well, I don't want to give away the plot. Anyway, we liked it. You may or may not. To each their own. (BTW my avatar is from this.

I must say though, that with Anakin being so unstable, he did respect the droids.

Even if it didn't match up with the original movies, I did like that. The way he told R2 to wait with crazy eyes... it just sort of worked.

Ahh, this makes me recall "The Second Renaissance 1 &2" on the Animatrix DVD, when the people turned against the droids and starting smashing and dumping all of the worker and "hooker" models.

Nooooo!!! Not the "hooker" models!

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 21 July 2008 - 09:05 PM

[Vesuvius]

I haven't seen any Japanese dramas, but I must say that I am impressed with Ju-On (only seen bits and pieces) Ringu, Pulse, and a few comedies, like Kikujiro and Nonstop.

The thing I like about the Japanese films is (like you said) no guarantee of a happy ending.

I'd say my favorite Japanese filims would be out of Lady Snowblood 1&2 and Azumi 1&2.

Heh, although my like of Japanese films doesn't make me a "Japanophile" the way some of these crazed kids in the States act. It's so bad that they'll use chopsticks for anything! ANYTHING!

With Lucas taking so much from old J-cinema, you'd think the PT would turn out a little better than it did though.

[Toru-chan]

I haven't seen any Japanese dramas, but I must say that I am impressed with Ju-On (only seen bits and pieces) Ringu, Pulse, and a few comedies, like Kikujiro and Nonstop. I'd say my favorite Japanese filims would be out of Lady Snowblood 1&2 and Azumi 1&2.

Not familiar with those (except Ringu), but will keep an eye out for them. It's hard to recommend things, because they need to emotionally resonate with the viewer and there's nothing nicer than a pleasant surprise.

The thing I like about the Japanese films is (like you said) no guarantee of a happy ending.

There's a theme in American cinema where the character will try something, fail, try again, succeed. It's not bad idea, but it's recycled so often that it becomes predictable. It got to the point for me where 30 minutes into an American movie, I can tell you how it ends. In Japanese cinema, sometimes even the characters best isn't enough, and while happy endings do happen, they don't always. It makes it more interesting to watch.

There's also another thing they do with their drama: Because they only usually only ever run for one season, they tend to have a definite ending. The characters that go into the story aren't the same ones that come out. The story ends on a high and everyone moves onto other projects. Some American TV falls (e.g. X-Files) into a trap where they find a magic formula, and they repeat it season after season too scared to change it. The characters don't change, which takes the punch of the story. Episodes seem to reset at the end back to the beginning as if nothing ever happened. In the end the audience get bored and the show dies a slow and painful death. I would have happily traded a few seasons off the X-Files if they'd got to the point sooner and with more impact.

(Oh and BTW just to be fair, Australian Cinema mostly sucks: They're often cheap imitations of American movies and are made from (choose any two): a. ABBA, b. the outback, c. a homicidal maniac. "Hey Honey do you want to see "The Mad Disembowler from Dingo Creek?" No, I didn't think you would...")

With Lucas taking so much from old J-cinema, you'd think the PT would turn out a little better than it did though.

There was a "Twilight Zone" Episode where old Bruce Willis meets new Bruce Willis. Maybe we need one where old George meets new George? There's a nice quote by the guys that founded Google which might apply to George too: "What happened to us? When we had no money we took lots of risks. Now we have all the cash in the world and we take no risks at all."

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 22 July 2008 - 05:50 AM

[Vesuvius]

There's a theme in American cinema where the character will try something, fail, try again, succeed. It's not bad idea, but it's recycled so often that it becomes predictable. It got to the point for me where 30 minutes into an American movie, I can tell you how it ends. In Japanese cinema, sometimes even the characters best isn't enough, and while happy endings do happen, they don't always. It makes it more interesting to watch.

Yeah, that cycle has played itself very thin. A number of the super hero movies do that one. Hero is all bad@ss in the beginning of the film, hero looks bad@ss while kicking the crap out of a thug or two, hero then gets the snot kicked out of him by this REALLY bad@ss dude that's the villian, hero then miraculously beats up the villian because we learn that "he is the chosen one" then the hero continues to look bad@ss and the credits go up with some techno music. ....Yeah, I've seen that movie...

The only Australian film that I saw and ejoyed was "Romper-Stomper" with Russel Crowe. That film was pretty much anticlimactic and I enjoyed that about it. I've seen a film from New Zealand called "Once Were Warriors" with Temuera Morrison and that was disturbing but good. GL really toned down the way this guy can act with being Jango Fett.

As for GL, the love of money making is his downfall.

[Dorothy]

Disney Movie = Not Quite Human?

If the Japanese dramas are anything like Korean dramas, they are hardcore. They'll rip your heart out and leave you crying like a baby. I saw this one drama about a cop who had alzheimer's because he was beat up by some baddies, and he made these videos for his kids that they would watch at every birthday.

Then there was the one about the lady who had cancer, and her husband left her, then when he found out she was dying, he went back to her, and he tried to make her happy, but she never said she loved him until she left it on a voicemail just before she died. ...hardcore...

There was a "Twilight Zone" Episode where old Bruce Willis meets new Bruce Willis...

I'm pretty sure that was a movie, not a TZ.

I haven't seen any Japanese dramas, but I must say that I am impressed with Ju-On (only seen bits and pieces) Ringu, Pulse, and a few comedies, like Kikujiro and Nonstop.

Audition...

Vesuvius - For that to be a downfall, it has to have hurt him in some way. So far, it would appear that it hasn't.

This post has been edited by Dorothy: 22 July 2008 - 05:22 PM

[Toru-chan]

Disney Movie = Not Quite Human?

I looked it up. Yeah, it's about a robot, but beyond that I'm not seeing any similarities. It's certainly not a remake. 'Absolute Boyfriend' was based on a Girls' Manga.

If the Japanese dramas are anything like Korean dramas, they are hardcore. They'll rip your heart out and leave you crying like a baby. I saw this one drama about a cop who had alzheimer's because he was beat up by some baddies, and he made these videos for his kids that they would watch at every birthday.

Ouch! Wow! For this one they soften you up with the humor, give you a chance to know the characters, then move into the serious stuff.

I'm pretty sure that was a movie, not a TZ.

Checked Wiki which says it was segment one of episode one of series one of the 'New Twilight Zone' series: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Shatterday (not to be confused with the 'New New Twilight Zone' Series which Forest Whitaker is still in prison for).

Vesuvius - For that to be a downfall, it has to have hurt him in some way. So far, it would appear that it hasn't.

Oooh! Nice Line! I'll have to remember that one.

Yeah, that cycle has played itself very thin. super hero .. bad@ss ... kicking the crap ... "he is the chosen one" ... techno music. ....Yeah, I've seen that movie...

Oh yes. And people still come to see them. Help me understand.

The only Australian film that I saw and ejoyed was "Romper-Stomper" with Russel Crowe. That film was pretty much anticlimactic and I enjoyed that about it.

I dug Mad Max II but that was a while back... It had an <R> rating, but I swear nobody in the cinema was over 15.

I've seen a film from New Zealand called "Once Were Warriors" with Temuera Morrison and that was disturbing but good. GL really toned down the way this guy can act with being Jango Fett.

That "Lord of the Rings" thing wasn't too bad either.

As for GL, the love of money making is his downfall.

Think you said you've read the Secret History of Starwars? George finally got everything he wanted, then did nothing with it.

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 23 July 2008 - 01:49 AM

[Vesuvius]

Hehe, okay, "Lord of the Rings" I didn't mention because it was under New Line Cinema, which hosts films such as Blade. Blade, was one of the films that I was (enjoyably) stereotyping about the token bad@ss that's "the chosen one" that always wins his fights due to techno music playing.

LotR is great, yes, but I was mentioning more of lesser known films by lesser known companies.

oh, and for the "downfall" comment, I mean more of it as a downfall in movie quality. Not so much as GL is going to learn anything from making crap.

Oh and Dorothy, I had only seen the coverbox to "Audition" when I worked in the local videowhore (blockbuster), never rented it, but I guess I'll check it from the library one day...

Oh, and I'm still reading the "History of SW" just got sidetracked for a bit.

[Toru-chan]

New Line paid for LOTR to be made in greenbacks and they used American/British leads, but AFAIK everything else about the production is Kiwi: Director, Writers, Design, CGI and Crew. I guess New Zealand has made some stinker movies too we've never heard about, but I'll give them there dues for this.

BTW at one stage Australia was making a lot of movies, but they were Hollywood productions being shot here to save $$$ (e.g. AOTC, ROTS). But then the Australian Tax Office got greedy and took away a tax exemption for the film industry. I had an actor friend who used to get a lot of work on these, but once the tax changes were announced, most of the production companies packed up and left. Well done, ATO!

LotR is great, yes, but I was mentioning more of lesser known films by lesser known companies.

Do understand your point. Without those greenbacks, LOTR wouldn't have been made.

[Dorothy]

I looked it up. Yeah, it's about a robot, but beyond that I'm not seeing any similarities. It's certainly not a remake. 'Absolute Boyfriend' was based on a Girls' Manga.

Oh, you know, once you've seen one robot movie...

Ouch! Wow! For this one they soften you up with the humor, give you a chance to know the characters, then move into the serious stuff.

I just really enjoy how they can portray interesting characters that you identify with in such a short amount of time. I haven't watched one yet that I wasn't sad when it ended. I agree that the short series' really help to keep the quality high. At least for the Korean shows.

Checked Wiki which says it was segment one of episode one of series one of the 'New Twilight Zone' series: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Shatterday (not to be confused with the 'New New Twilight Zone' Series which Forest Whitaker is still in prison for).

Yeah, but that's an alternate version of himself, not a past/future version. Willis did kinda the same premise in the Kid (I think that's right). I try not to watch the new TZs, they just don't compare with the old. I stay home every time there is a marathon.

oh, and for the "downfall" comment, I mean more of it as a downfall in movie quality. Not so much as GL is going to learn anything from making crap.

Yeah, that's true...

Oh and Dorothy, I had only seen the coverbox to "Audition" when I worked in the local videowhore (blockbuster), never rented it, but I guess I'll check it from the library one day...

You should, it's pretty good.

[Vesuvius]

Oh, you know, once you've seen one robot movie...

Heh, this just made me think of Will Smith's performance in "I Robot," which was named after an episode of the Original Outer Limits...

But what I'm getting at here, is once you've seen one Will Smith movie... you've seen them all. Seriously. His acting style hasn't changed a bit after Independence Day. He's the same guy, in all of his movies. Some actors can get away with being carefree and still make a good character for a film, and some actors can really alter their own ways of being to make a film better, (Heath Ledger=Joker anyone?) But...

Will Smith is Will Smith, in a Will Smith film, starring Will Smith! Produced and Directed by Emmy Award Winner, Will Smith, with best supporting Actress and Actor, Will Smith! Coming to a theater near you!

[Dorothy]

Actually, "I, Robot" was supposedly loosely based on an Azimov book series. Pretty much the only thing that was similar was the laws of robotics, though.

It's true though, about Will Smith. The only movie that I saw that was any different was I am Legend. I liked the WS version a lot better than the earlier ones, or even the book. I am a sucker for a "happy" ending.

[Toru-chan]

Yes, Will Smith, Robert De Nero, Jack Nicholson, Denzel Washington. Good actors who got lazy and play the same role in film after film. If they could lie in bed and phone their lines in, they would.

Oh, you know, once you've seen one robot movie...

Sure Robots will feel the same way.

I just really enjoy how they can portray interesting characters that you identify with in such a short amount of time. I haven't watched one yet that I wasn't sad when it ended. I agree that the short series' really help to keep the quality high. At least for the Korean shows.

Japanese ones sound similar. Yeah; I'm impressed at the way they can develop these stories. In a short amount of time they have you feeling a bond with the characters. It's amazing really. We know these characters and the story is made up, but when the series comes to an end I feel like I have some good friends I'll never see again.

The 'short' part seems important too: It does keep the quality high, and it also means a real story can be played out, c.f. the stringing things out until the audience gets bored (X-Files). There's also needs to be a trust between the audience and the storyteller: If they start using contrived shocks for no other point than manipulating the audience, they become disillusioned. The same for having the characters act inconsistently (Blakes 7 Series 2+ where they had lots of uncoordinated writers was a good bad example). Same for the the old "idiot in the attic" thing - hard to feel for characters doing obviously stupid things and wondering why it doesn't work out for them. The same for changing the story as the go and pretending not too.

Scene: Lucas Household at Bedtime Storytime

Amanda: Daaaaaad! You're making it up as you go!
George: AM NOT! AM NOT! AM NOT! AM NOT!
Amanda: ARE TOO!

[Vesuvius]

Yes, Will Smith, Robert De Nero, Jack Nicholson, Denzel Washington. Good actors who got lazy and play the same role in film after film. If they could lie in bed and phone their lines in, they would.

Nailed it! It's a shame that even less popular actors have a better standing. I for one am still impressed with Vin Diesel as a convict in Pitch Black, yet outside of acting, he's nothing like that character. The four actors you've mentioned are pretty much those people IRL. Oh, and don't forget, Billy Zane!

Japanese ones sound similar. Yeah; I'm impressed at the way they can develop these stories. In a short amount of time they have you feeling a bond with the characters. It's amazing really. We know these characters and the story is made up, but when the series comes to an end I feel like I have some good friends I'll never see again.

Yeah, this happened to me after watching Samurai Champloo. Jin was awesome and many people accused me of "acting like" him, but I was always like that. They just found a character that resembled my personality type.