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Philosophy are you made of philo or are you a sophist?

#16 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:51 AM

Well as far as the initil question goes I'm not really sure if I am "philo" or "sophist". I am not an American so as such cannot claim that I hail from Philo without renouncing my staunch "Australianism" that I have attempted to foster on this forum. I have from time to time been know to argue from a point of view that may be devoid of a sound argumentitive base, so in this sense I may be closer to a sophist, but for the most part I do tend to try and make some semblance of sense.

As such I will reject the question out of hand and move on to my philosophy. I think for me the simplest way to outline my philosophy comes from Descarte, "I think therefore I am." I know it's not original (in many ways) but it does help me determine a certain perspective when approaching such topics of conversation. I also like to temper this philosophy with a piece of fantasy from Raymond E. Feist, "I am the architect of my own imprisonment." (Magician).

I feel that my sense of understanding is constantly evolving. Things I thought I knew 10 years ago are not as I see them now. Even from the time I first join this forum my opinions and views have changed. I recall being involved in a conversation with Civ#2, Jordan and others in a thread a few years ago discussing religion and I'm certain if I were to find that thread and re-read it, my views would have changed somewhat since then. My philosophy in many ways is question that which is presented. I don't mean to the point of determining no opinion either as you can certainly go in circles if you really wanted too, but at least try to understand that for every point of view there is a counter point. This counter point often is determined by a point of view itself, thus the beginning of the circular arguement.

There are some questions I find silly, such as the tree falling in the forest. This to me makes no real sense. The idea that thing may not occur just because we are not there to perceive them is to me very egocentric and not at all how the world shows us it works. I was not at work today. But when I go there tomorrow there will be things that I need to do and respond to that occurred without my presence. My not being there did not make them not happen (ewww what a sentence).

Philosophy tends to also be a product of what you are looking for, be it religion or any other sort of perspective. I persoally don't subscribe to religion. I don't discount the existence of a higher power of some sort, but I certainly don't see evidence of this in religion. I see evolution in religion, but I don't see divinity.

I percieve the world around me. I take in information at any given time and I respond to the information. My learning grows (well at least I feel that it grows) and my opinions evolve. This is the one thing that I think was described so well in Dogma. I have realised that I don't have beliefs, but rather have ideas that I have seen evolve in the course of my life and most likely will continue to do so.

Seek ye the answers to life if you will. Me! I'm looking for the next question.
Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter.
Yoda
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#17 User is offline   z e w b Icon

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 08:42 AM

This is what I believe:

There is no God. There is no divine plan. Religion is archaic superstition from the dark ages, kept alive to this very day by bandwagon effect, false hope, fear of being outcast by loved ones for being an unbeliever, and in some less-civilized countries, the threat of violence and death. There's no such thing as fate; reality is a massive culmination of interconnected cause/effect relationships naturally keeping itself in motion.
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#18 User is offline   Cobnat Icon

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:02 AM

QUOTE (z e w b @ Apr 15 2008, 05:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is what I believe:

There is no God. There is no divine plan. Religion is archaic superstition from the dark ages, kept alive to this very day by bandwagon effect, false hope, fear of being outcast by loved ones for being an unbeliever, and in some less-civilized countries, the threat of violence and death. There's no such thing as fate; reality is a massive culmination of interconnected cause/effect relationships naturally keeping itself in motion.


I am an objectivist similar to this man.
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Posted 16 April 2008 - 01:35 AM

He may be an Objectivist, but I wouldn't come to that conclusion from his rant about religion. That's just common Atheism.

Objectivism is an incomplete philosophy, by the way, with no concept of what it takes to build a society, and we have fun here on the Internet commenting on its nonsense from time to time. Did you know that man's control of fire was such an accomplishment that the act of holding a cigarette had significance? It's man controlling fire in his very hand, sucking it in and feeling it mix with the air in his lungs. I didn't know that, but Ayn Rand told me! Boy she's neat.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#20 User is offline   z e w b Icon

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 02:13 AM

Atheism is itself a religion. I'm just a normal person with no religion.
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 01:19 AM

Atheism is not a religion. To call it a religion is to reduce the meaning of the word religion.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#22 User is offline   BigStupidDogFacedArse Icon

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 07:48 PM

It's been brought to my attention in past debates that my non-belief is in fact a belief (duh) and makes me no better than a believer (of god), you see. In short, I'm a religious atheist, my religion is non-god.

It's cute.

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#23 User is offline   ion eon Icon

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:52 PM

yeah, atheism is just not having enough creativity to do l.s.d.
OH NO!!!
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#24 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:13 PM

Atheism isn't a religion, but I understand the idea that atheism is a "faith" because faith is believing to be true, something that can't be proven. Period. That's what faith is. And technically you can't prove that no god exists. And taken to the context of religion, a "faith" is believing something to be true, that can't be proven, that has something to do with religion. And believing that no god exists is both 1) having to do with religion and 2) believing something that can't be proven.

But a "faith" and a religion are not the same thing.

And I'm just rambling about nonsense. because I has tequila, and so are you.
I am writing about Jm in my signature because apparently it's an effective method of ignoring him.
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Posted 18 April 2008 - 03:43 AM

I'll use the old analogy again. I don't believe that ogres and dragons terrorised humans in the middle ages. I also don't believe in God. I can draw a straight line between the stories of ogres and dragons and their sources, men, and I can draw a straight line between the stories of god and their source, men. I can't find any proof for them, and in fact they defy reason and outwit any test of validity I can imagine (more god than the others; the others are simply scoffworthy). I also don't believe in the fairies, or the banshee, or the trolls of the Norse underworld, or ghosts or electronic voice phenomena.

A belief is a notion of something such that you cannot imagine that it is not the case. I don't say that I believe in not-god, requiring that I cannot imagine god to be the case. I say that I don't believe in god because like dragons, I don't see any reason to say "it is not possible that this could not be true." I need more evidence than ancient and frequently contradictory testimonial accompanied by unrepeatable visitation experiences and personal religious moments.

A religion is an organisation of ideas about god or gods (or in a few cases simply about intangible ideals and ethics). Atheism is not a religion. If you want to call it a "belief systme, go ahead. In that case any set of connected ideas is a belief system. So math is a religion, along with botany. But to call these things religions sucks the meaning right out of the word.

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#26 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 09:24 AM

I hope you're not responding to my post because I said it wasn't religion, just that I understand the idea of calling it a "faith" (or "belief-system" works too). But I don't even call it that, I just understand the idea from those that do.

Also I have to point out that there are some (many, actually) atheists that treat their non-religion as a religion. That drives me nuts. I think that's where some people get the idea that atheism is also kind of a religion, even though that's incorrect.

This post has been edited by Spoon Poetic: 18 April 2008 - 09:24 AM

I am writing about Jm in my signature because apparently it's an effective method of ignoring him.
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#27 User is offline   reiner Icon

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 10:48 AM

Militant atheists are awesome. Every time I think about them, that song by the Offsrping comes to mind: "Cool to Hate"
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Posted 18 April 2008 - 05:37 PM

I WAS responding to your post, Spoon, because of the whole "faith" business, where you said that atheists are making a statement of faith when they say that they believe in not-god. My response is that I don't say that I believe in not-god, just as I don't say that I believe in not-dragons. On the other hand I don't believe in god, and I don't believe in dragons. My statement of non-belief is not faith-based. I don't believe in the things because I have seen no reason to. I can see where the ideas came from and it's clear they didn't come from the places their proponents say they came from. So I can safely say those proponents are wrong, and that I don't believe in the stuff they believe in, given that.

I don't know what you mean by folks treating their non-religion as a religion. If you mean there are folks who aggressively argue against religion because they are atheists, a lot of the time those folks have reasons that have little to do with belief sytems and more to do with bad personal experiences with religious people in the past. If you mean something else, I really don't know what to say.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 18 April 2008 - 05:38 PM

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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Posted 18 April 2008 - 07:05 PM

Uhhh is it a good idea to start this debate again? It can only end badly.
QUOTE (arien @ Jun 29 2008, 03:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So this baby, while still inside its mother, murdered his twin brother and STOLE HIS PENIS.

That is one badass baby.

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 07:04 PM

change of topic

Where did conscience go? The root of every problem in the world today is a result of even a basic conscience. Everyone is out on their own agenda, no one cares for another. We're all humans, the only difference between you and I are a few links of dna, we're 99.7% the same, but yet we treat some people as animals. Why? Religious beliefs, territory, rivalry, bigotry, hate, conflicting views, are all reasons, but none of them a valid excuse. Its time for people to realize that we are all people.
OH NO!!!
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