[bobsickle]

I'd say that whether she read his mind or not, she wasn't particularly angry with him. She could easily have known, but giving the away would mean that Greg couldn't be exorcised. They're all professionals, Greg wasn't needed. Hopefully my and Gobbly's opinions from #FR will appear soon.

[DreamerM]

I'm guessing that actually doing mind-reading is an active power as opposed to a passive one. So she would need to actually read his mind.

That or she knew that Trilby was conning the kid, and wanted him out of her hair. I'd be damned annoyed too if I gave him the best days of my life and he was still all emo.

Hm, but if she knew and was going along with it, she wouldn't have been all annoyed and angry at the end of the story would she?

I don't think I've ever seen Telepathy as an active power before: from what I can imagine, the problems with mind-reading come from reading private thoughts that really SHOULD be kept private and in other cases, becoming so overwhelmingly receptive that their own self gets lost and overwhelmed in the cacophony of information they're always getting from those around them. In one of the novels I read as a kid, the strongest telepaths had to drug themselves stupid every night so that they could get some sleep.

Could be though that there aren't any psychics in this particular universe that are that powerful. Or, Claire has enough control over her gift that she's only receptive to thoughts when she wants to be.

[DreamerM]

I'd say that whether she read his mind or not, she wasn't particularly angry with him. She could easily have known, but giving the away would mean that Greg couldn't be exorcised. They're all professionals, Greg wasn't needed.

Heh, for a moment I wondered if this was an origin story for what might, in the hands of some other writer, have become a mascot character: someone who literally haunts the office, popping up to provide comic-relief aggrivation or be on the receiving end of exposition but not really doing anything important.

Bless, Yahtzee's imagination doesn't work that way. His characters don't have time for that kind of nonsense.

I do wonder sometimes what he has against the American South. Then again, then I just have to look at my dad's shotglass collection: he received one from a grad student now working at a university somewhere in Southern Carolina. The student assured my dad about the logo: "The cross is NOT on fire. It's just very holy!"

This same grad student then went on to talk about a school function that needed to end before a certain time because there was a Klan rally that evening. Course, it wasn't written down as a Klan meeting, but as the last students were leaving the new guys in the parking lot started pulling out the white sheets...

He actually tried staying for the rally, so as to better understand The Enemy. He said he didn't last ten minutes and left feeling sick and dead inside.

God bless America.

[Game Over]

*Notices that Yahtzee is already gone and his question is ignored*

Can't be bothered to download the game right now.

Goodbye.

[bobsickle]

Notice the distinct lack of editing.

* Gobbly (~zephyr@c-67-180-174-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #fullyramblomatic
* Gobbly casts 0,1HAIL
* bob_teatime is now known as bobsickle
<Gobbly> (that's the point where you're supposed to scream and run)
* bobsickle screams and runs
* Gobbly nods
<Gobbly> Nice.
* bobsickle is now known as bob_fleeing
<Gobbly> So, Trilby and the Ghost...
<Gobbly> I dunno... I liked Trilby's characterization, but that Ghost somehow felt like Mr. Yahtzee just wanted to vent somehow...
<Gobbly> And it was also such a weak concept... way beneath his ability
<bob_fleeing> But still enjoyable.
<Gobbly> Yeah.
<Gobbly> Still, I think we should expect a bit more of Mr. Y
<Gobbly> His style is far too blurry as of now
* NanakiXIII (WinNT@ppp-70-225-37-37.dsl.covlil.ameritech.net) Quit (Ping timeout)
<Gobbly> He's good and has a lot of excellent insight and thoughts for certain topics, but there are always some distractions in those stories of his
<Gobbly> Like Ghosts who fell in love via MSN
<Gobbly> That's a milieu that doesn't fit the picture
* bob_fleeing is now known as bobsickle
<bobsickle> There were few of the geek references that could have been better I must say. And the computer joke could have been better too.
<bobsickle> But on the whole it was good, just not quite the maximum standard possible.
<bobsickle> That what you wanted to hear?
<Gobbly> Kinda.
<Gobbly> I think of it more as a constant problem and a hinderance for his development as a writer
<bobsickle> I know what you mean though.
* Gobbly nods
<Gobbly> Okay. Then it's clear what we have to do.
<Gobbly> Thrust as many George R.R. Martin books into his face as possible.
<Gobbly> Alternatively, we could also arrange for him to get a woman pregnant.
<Gobbly> That would definitely solve the problem, albeit being a rather harsh method.
<bobsickle> There is an indecisiveness between whether to go humorous or serious in his stories. There needs to be more subtlety than all-out "genre".
<Gobbly> Precisely.
<Gobbly> He seems to be wavering.
<Gobbly> Also, his own personality seeps through far too much in everything he writes
<Gobbly> His influences are far too obvious
<bobsickle> Then again, I write similarly sometimes...
<Gobbly> Nobody's without flaw, but then that's what time's been invented for
<bobsickle> But I rarely put myself in my writing. Even if it's personal.
<Gobbly> I've read his stuff since I was 17, I guess.
<Gobbly> And everything he comes up with seems to somehow tell me "uh~huh, that theme again... yeah, that was to be expected... oh, another Silent Hill reference..."
<bobsickle> I see your point.
<Gobbly> It's just too obvious.
<Gobbly> It happens with a lot of authors, once you know what they're about.
<bobsickle> He has the talent, but it's not utilised properly.
<Gobbly> Yeah... he's sorta childish
<Gobbly> You can always imagine that little boy inside of him dreaming his fantasies, donning a Trilby and pretending to be a Gentleman Thief and all that
<bobsickle> Although I often prefer a childrens' book, as long as it's well written. They're less tied to the author.
<bobsickle> I prefer writing as someone else. If it';
<bobsickle> *it's fiction, keep it entirely fictional.
<Gobbly> Aye.
<bobsickle> Not base things on what you know, or half know.
<Gobbly> Do you know those certain kind of scenes in books, where people "note" something or follow a certain thought or suddenly seem to take interest into something that seems to be totally out-of-character for them? That's what I really hate, because that's usually pure self-insertion from the author.
<Gobbly> I think Mr. Y does that a lot
<bobsickle> Yeah. I see your point.
<bobsickle> I mean Trilby is entirely Yahtzee in a suit.
<Gobbly> Exactly.
<Gobbly> His childhood fantasy.
<bobsickle> Even down to his height.
<Gobbly> And that character is really good, but he could still do so much better than that.
* Dritz (~asoborov@CPE-65-27-46-232.kc.res.rr.com) has joined #fullyramblomatic
<Gobbly> Howdy Dritz
* L sets mode: +v Dritz
<bobsickle> He's a bit too "Yahtzee". There's little to make him stand out, and poor descrpition of his cool abilities.
<+Dritz> 'Lo.
<bobsickle> Hi there Dritz.
<Gobbly> Or over-exaggerated descriptions of his abilities
<bobsickle> Yeah, childish again.
<Gobbly> Well, now all that we have to do is to shout that into his face.
<Gobbly> Too bad I missed him when he was here in San Francisco
<+Dritz> Who?
<bobsickle> It doesn't balance and sit comfortably with the rest of the text.
<bobsickle> Yahtzee
<bobsickle> We're talking about his writing.
<+Dritz> Yahtzee is a bit to Yahtzee?
<+Dritz> too*
<Gobbly> Yup.
<bobsickle> Trilby.
<+Dritz> Huh.
<Gobbly> I liked how he abbreviated Ministry of Ocultism
<Gobbly> That was a bit stupid
<Gobbly> You're reading through one of his more serious stories, and then stumble about "MoO"
* Gobbly moos
<Gobbly> Classic.
<bobsickle> I thought that too. I knew what it was, but still checked to make sure he'd written it in full first.
<Gobbly> Authors just shouldn't do that
<bobsickle> It was wrong, like MSN.
<+Dritz> Well, looks like the VM won't work for games :<
<Gobbly> Yeah, MSN was understandable, but it made it too real.
<bobsickle> Aw. A long time for nothing.
<bobsickle> If it had been a nerdier reference or a more generalised IM, it would have been better.
<Gobbly> There's a point in writing where a breach through to full reality just ruins it all
<Gobbly> Nah, that was just bad writing, in my opinion. The whole character of that nerd
<Gobbly> He shouldn't resort to stuff like that
<bobsickle> I mean even just "'I met her on Quakenet IRC' said the nerd. 'Wha?' enquired Tribly. 'Never mind...'"
<Gobbly> Still too real, in my opinion.
<Gobbly> Too much detail
<bobsickle> Which one of us do you think the ghost was based on?
* Gobbly laughs
<Gobbly> That's exactly what I thought.
<bobsickle> Or "I met her on the internet"
<Gobbly> "Oh, he's taking it out on all the fanboys and internet idiots he has to deal with now"
<bobsickle> Something simple, if the character's necessary.
<Gobbly> Yeah, that would have been better.
<Gobbly> As soon as you go into detail, people can start to relate it to full reality. And that's where it's getting boring and uncomfortable, because reality just doesn't sparkle as much.
<bobsickle> I mean, we know it's a nerd, stop baby-feeding us hints about it!
<Gobbly> Maybe we should send him a log of this conversation
<bobsickle> and that's something Yahtzee's complained about.
<bobsickle> Maybe we should...
<Gobbly> Or we could just summarize our best points and open a new thread on the forums
<Gobbly> Start some controversy
<bobsickle> I like the way we're not arguing though.
<Gobbly> Gekko would be proud of us
<bobsickle> I sure hope so!
<Gobbly> Well, I really am a fan of Mr. Yahtzee, but he's far from the god that others make him out to be.
* bobsickle shakes fist at general Finnish direction
<bobsickle> Yeah, I know.
<Gobbly> What he needs is some constructive criticism and a punch into the face.
<bobsickle> He's (shock horror!) not even as funny as he's made out to be on ZP.
<Gobbly> Lest he makes the same mistake he did after 5DAS and 7DAS back in the days and becomes a bit too vain for his own good
<Gobbly> Yeah, I'm not constantly laughing through those ZP shorts
<Gobbly> I enjoy them, and they're really good
<bobsickle> There's good stuff, but do you ever feel some of it's forced?
<Gobbly> Hmm... not sure
<bobsickle> Like he has to invent spite sometimes.
<bobsickle> Because that's what the public want.
<bobsickle> Personally, I thought HL2:OB, was better because he liked it.
<Gobbly> Exactly
<Gobbly> But I don't think he's stressing it too far right now
<bobsickle> No, but I fear he will.
<Gobbly> Most games had been cheesy rip offs so far
<Gobbly> He had no problem tearing them apart
<Gobbly> Yeah, ZP won't be as hot as it is forever
<Gobbly> I wonder what he'll be doing then
<bobsickle> Probably have a job, working.
<Gobbly> He'd better pull the right strings now and secure a few good connections to the gaming industry
<bobsickle> I think he might be going into some sort of game design. He's still young, despite the facial hair.
<Gobbly> Heh
<Gobbly> His best bet would be to write Peter Molyneux back and offer his creativity
<Gobbly>
<bobsickle> Possibly...
<Gobbly> But I guess he'll be going for Valve before that
<Gobbly> Then again, he's more into more... colourful and funny characters, so who knows
<bobsickle> I think he might like them a little *too* much.
<bobsickle> Valve I mean...
<Gobbly> I can't hold it against them
<Gobbly> or him
* CloudSlepz is now known as Clouddark
<@blueskirt> Hahaha, Trilby a Mary Sue, I think that everytime I see a pic of Yahtzee with that hat
* Clouddark (~clouddark@ip68-227-47-28.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout)
<@blueskirt> Sounds like Cloud kill conversation by changing his nick now.

I might do it later. If I can...

[DreamerM]

Notice the distinct lack of editing.

I might do it later. If I can...

I'll do it right now, if you'll please allow me.

It was a bit difficult to follow given all of the disjointed Chatspeak, but your main points, as closely as I could follow them, were that you expected More from Yahtzee: more funny, stronger story-line, more funny, and the Trilby character is a blatant, self-insertion Gary-Stu whom he should have outgrown long ago, and that he's misapplying his talent by making this kind of stuff.

I'm not sure though, how seriously I can take the statements of some people who argue that he Fith relief that the two of you still see eye-to-eye. I'm not going to read any biographical subtext into the piece, because nothing pisses writers off more then for their work to be viewed as some kind of decoder-key for their personal soul (something just about every literary scholar in the world chooses to ignore) so instead I'm just going to say I enjoyed it in all the areas that really matter: the characters seemed like genuine people, I sympathized with their plights, and the twist provoked a genuine emotional response from me. I particularly respect Yahtzee's ability to give ALL his characters, even the bit-players who appear for a sentence or two like the Louisiana guy or Yarrow (a simple passing reference) their own distinctive personalities and motivations. And hell, I like Trilby's voice: time spent in that wry, irreverent, but oh-so-poised head of his is always time well spent.

And if you really don't think good story, charming and distinctive characters, witty prose and a genuinely emotional twist are enough to more then enough to make a short story well worth the twenty minutes or so it takes to read through it, then, frankly, your opinions can be safely ignored.

For what it's wort though: I doubt any of you would actually tell Yahtzee he was wasting his talent to his face. The guy is tall enough to trample most normal-sized humans under one foot. Plus there's that weird gravity-defying gait of his where he kinda glides weightlessly around instead of walking, which could be a symptom of any sort of demonic power....

I'm not actually going to click "submit" on this rambling thing, am I?

Yes. Yes I am.

Damn it.

[Game Over]

DreamerM, you type a bit too much. I'm gonna go for the guess that you're a girl--I mean, female.

[bobsickle]

I think you missed some of it... We enjoyed the story, it was a good read, but Yahtzee falls at a few common hurdles. For a start, the ghost - however realistic - was a weak character. The ghost was like Yahtzee desperately wanting to cause those stereotypical nerds some harm, for being stereotypical nerds. We didn't want "more funny" we wanted his style to be more clear cut. He tends to try and make it a comedy and a drama, which doesn't work well, so he should either go all out humour, or be more subtle about it. Abbreviations are bad! MoO? No, write Ministry of Occultism in full, or invent some kind of nickname to put in for it. We didn't like "MSN" at all either, it made it too real. We were snapped out of the story and into reality, which interrupts the story and some of the magic of being lost in the story's world is lost. Gobbly thinks Yahtzee should get a woman pregnant too. His writing's a little too predictable too. Then we started talking about how Zero Punctuation won't last forever, we will eventually tire of it, so hopefully Yahtzee will get another job and stop at the end of its peak. Don't keep milking the cow after its dry!

And I basically said that so Yahtzee could read it, but I would say it to his face. I don't like not being honest, and he's only like 3 inches taller than me. Anyway, I somehow doubt he'd react violently.

[Sniffles]

And I basically said that so Yahtzee could read it, but I would say it to his face. I don't like not being honest, and he's only like 3 inches taller than me. Anyway, I somehow doubt he'd react violently.

Yahtzee shot my dog because he looked at him funny. Just felt like telling you that.

[Gobbler]

I'm not going to read any biographical subtext into the piece, because nothing pisses writers off more then for their work to be viewed as some kind of decoder-key for their personal soul (something just about every literary scholar in the world chooses to ignore)

It's not like I would actually want to read stuff like that into it, but when it's there, it's there, and it catches my attention. It happens to most authors, regardless of their skill - read up on Hemingway if you like.
And do trust me, a real literary scholar is aware of that and takes it into account. Self-insertion is always present, and it doesn't even have to be a bad thing - I think Hemingway actually did it right. J.K. Rowling on the other hand...

[DreamerM]

And do trust me, a real literary scholar is aware of that and takes it into account. Self-insertion is always present, and it doesn't even have to be a bad thing - I think Hemingway actually did it right. J.K. Rowling on the other hand...

A case could be made for ALL writing being self-insertion of some form or other, even historical texts. The writer needs to stick their voice in there somewhere, wither through one specific character or through some omnipresent witness, or they can't hope to tell us, the readers, about what's going on and expect us to understand, let alone care.

As for the JK Rowling comment... I really don't know what to say to that. In my own opinion those books were triumphs of genre-bending: containing elements of everything from the boarding school drama to the Coming of Age quest to the Hero's Journey to the Classic Romance to the Screwball comedy. Rowling's voice switches from hilarious to terrifying to easily that you're never really safe, and all her characters, even the tiny ones, are well-developed and three-dimensional. History will tell wither her stories will become classics (I think they will) but if you dismiss her, I really can't take you or your opinions at all seriously.

Hemmingway's a different kind of writer. The thing about his writing is not what he says but what he leaves out: he was a master of the unwritten statement and his three-page short stories contained more subtext then most novels. His focus was never on the enjoyment of his readers and while his stories are incredible, his gift tormented him, because he was a nilhist and everywhere he looked he saw just one man against the apathetic, violent, destructive universe and nothing else was real.

I really don't think it's fair to hold him up as a standard.

[David-kyo]

but if you dismiss her, I really can't take you or your opinions at all seriously.

That's a killer argument: if you no likey what I likey then you no count.

Although I really liked this short story, I had the same feeling, that is, meshing comedy with drama has an odd effect.

This post has been edited by David-kyo: 09 March 2008 - 02:43 PM

[Sniffles]

Does Yahtzee's writing remind anyone of Christopher Moore's? I don't know, he has a very similar style.

[Game Over]

The only person who I can compare Yahtzee is Oscar Wilde (yes, I've said this so many time before).

[Simperin' Fool]

Anyway, I somehow doubt he'd react violently.

Ah, but that's probably what he would want you to think!

I thought the story was alright. Brief and entertaining, definitely worth the twenty or so minutes it took to read.

This post has been edited by Simperin' Fool: 09 March 2008 - 03:20 PM