[njamilla]

First, this is not a debate about the mythology of Star Wars. So please read this entire entry and stay on topic before posting.


Principle Question:

Do I use the word "mythology" in the title of the Shimmering Sword rewrite?

The new title would be "Sword Fighting in the Mythology of Star Wars".


My editor (and his team) feel the word "mythology" refers to a general perception of the Star Wars universe.

I feel (and state in the text) "mythology" refers to the incorporation of Joseph Campbell's monomyth into GL's storyline.

I could go into all sorts of details but I simply list plain facts about the book and see what your thoughts are. 1) The new book does not include one chapter and the afterword of the original text; the new book does include two new chapters and several chapter expansions. 2) Its thematic focus is on the links between the martial culture of swordsmen and the Jedi. 3) It also includes commentaries on the realism (or not) of lightsaber choreography in the saga.

My concern is that the title with "mythology" creates a false impression about the book. A more pointed characterization is that it is a bait and switch tactic for selling the book. My editor feels that "mythology" will be easily distinguished from the arguments I set forth in the book, and that the title will be captivating a title to help sell the book.

Do you agree with my editor? Or you think I should go with my line of reasoning (and gut feeling).

[Supes]

Hi Nick,

It's a pity that this has not received a response as yet. I think there is a valid point in your editor looking to include "mythology" in the title. I personally find it more of a reasonable point given your examination of sword play in the Star Wars Universe as compared to the "real world".

It's been a little while since I read the original publication so please excuse me if I get a little wayward as I may be muddling some of your concepts.

One of the major things I got out of the orginal was you comparitive approach to the Star Wars fighting styles when compared to actual sword techniques such as Bushido (defined here specifically as the sword style not so much the Japanses code of the Samurai). Upon first read it did not have as great an impact until after I had seen the new films and talked with people about the martial styles portayed in the films. I know a few people who worked on the new films and one of the things that has come out of our discussion was that there were a number of skilled swordsmen who worked in these films as extras. It was noted that one of the constraining points was that their style, was quite restricitive when trying to display an open and flowing combative style. Many of the sword techniques are very quick and linear. I do not mean back and forth, but rather, with the eastern styles being cut and thrust with minimal stroke play. A 'real" sword fight is likely to last a matter of seconds, with true masters facing off, perhaps for a matter of minutes.

As such the sword play that has been developed for Star Wars is one that has tried to meld both art and cinema into a higher level of combat. The idea is that the Jedi transcend the physical and emotional cues that are inherant in a "normal" fight between swordsmen. They must involve a higher level of interaction, that being the force. In order to be a better swordsman (or a lightsaber master) the combatant needs to employ techniques beyond that of even your sword masters. In doing so the nature of their fight extends to a new level. The combatants are taking on the roles of mythological figures in order to be able to reach such levels and thus obtain an advantage over their opponent.

I think the inclusion of the word "mythology" is suitable as you are making a real life comparison to an imaginary world that has taken on an epic level. Star Wars is no longer, and has not been for some time, merely a story. It has become an ingrained part of many of our cultures. That we have people seeking to add Jedi as a recognised religion is example enough. The very essence of Star Wars has seeped into our everyday lives and that which was celluloid has become part of our make up. Whether it be a truth or not is irrelevant. As the ancient civilizations had a mythology so do we now have a mythology. Is the creation of that mythology any less real than it was for those that set the planets to being gods?

I think when taking the real and placing it in a world such as Star Wars it is more than reasonable to include the term "mythology" when describing Star Wars.

Regardless of what you have ended up going with (given I have now posted 4 months after your original) I do look forward to the release of the new edition.

[Chefelf]

Nick,

I too missed this original post, and for that I am sorry.

I don't have anything nearly as insightful as Supes to say. I think I would slightly prefer leaving out the word Mythology (like 60% to 40% in favor). I think that word gets thrown around a lot in reference to Star Wars where it's really not necessary. Largely I think this is thanks to Joseph Campbell (as Supes pointed out).

I don't think the word, or the absence of, will make a huge difference overall.

[J m HofMarN]

Starwars theory sounds too dry, mythology sounds a bit better... maybe you could try synonyms..... or, better yet.......





SHIMMERING SWORD TWO! THE REVENGE OF THE ATTACKING MENACE!

and you could have the first sentence be something onomonopoeia-esque like "War!" or "Turmoil!" or "Skub!"

[njamilla]

The mythology-in-the-title debate is already settled. I convinced my editor to keep it out. The new title is SWORD FIGHTING IN THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE.

Supes:

Thanks for your comments. I hold them in great esteem, especially for taking the time to share them.

We all come from different perspectives, so surely it has to be understood that my perspective is a particular one drawn from my experience training in sword forms in fencing and Japanese swordsmanship. For many people, their concept of Jedi swordsmanship is drawn from both what they know from cinema and fantasy, which therefore leads them to fantastical ideas about the sword art. My goal was to go to history and draw a picture of the reality of swordsmen and then contrast that with Star Wars. What comes out in the process, then, is that while SW choreography is ultimately fiction, an understanding of real history actually enriches how the Jedi can be appreciated.

The understanding of "mythology" when used in the context of SW, has a very particular use as propaganda. From my research, GL origanally created a fairy tale for kids, not a modern cultural mythology about today's society. Lucas associated himself with Campbell well after EP V, as a way of revising the academic importance of the saga. My book seeks to reject that kind of revisionism because it becomes popularized and accepted as truth uncritically. By looking at history, I hope to recognize Star Wars as a proper academic subject, not simply the marketing of a fantasy franchise.

If one wants to look at the Jedi as fantastical superheroes (demi-gods, as David Brin puts it), then you get cartoon characters. My perspective is that the Jedi come from a long tradition of sword fighting with honor at its heart. At the outset, I imagined SW simply being a popular sword flick. What I found instead was that under all the high fantasy, GL makes quite a profound comment about war and peace. Unfortunately, one does not get to this commentary if one sticks to the fantasy elements. This is the problem! Unless a person has an understanding of honor among swordsmen (which is not even culturally taught in fencing clubs today), then the message will be missed.

Supes, I certainly do appreciate your perspective on including "mythology" in the title. Let's face it, if it sells the book, then it was the correct decision. The issue that eats at me, however, is the fact that swordsmen live by a stoic code of here and now; not myth, fantasy, or utopia. Swordsmen already perform acts that border on Jedi-like. They can know where an opponent will attack even before the opponent knows. A swordsman's blade actually moves faster than a blaster bolt in the movies. And the sensitivity to another person's energy is normal for many who have been properly trained in the martial arts.

Discipline and ascetic and austere practices already border on the mystical in this world. I don't have to find it in a fantastic construct of flying spears or lightning bolts. To me, the Jedi are more interesting when compared to the real world, than when they are simply looked at as dots and pixels on a computer screen or comic book page.

[J m HofMarN]

WEAR IS TEH EXKLAMATIONB PONT/? GEORGE LUCAS DEAMNDS IT!

[Supes]

Hey Nick,

Well based on what you have said here I woudl say that I agree with the revision of the title.

I think it also important to note that the choreographers of the fight scenes actually share your view of the Jedi and did also try to demonstrate the code of honour that is inherant in modern day swordsmen. The concept of a code of honour was something that they tried to tell within the story of the actual fight scenes. I think I posted somewhere else on the Forum that the final fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith was something close to a 10 - 12 minute sequence that was a story within itself. This unfortunately was never seen as it was cut to pieces in the editing room and much of the sequential performance was lost with moves and scenes being shuffled around so that the message didn't really get presented the way it was originally intended by the designers.

I also agree that "real" swordsmen are able to achieve extraordinary things depending upon the degree of training they have undertaken. The small amount of training I have done has shown me the value of practice when developing blade sensitivity and the "anticipation" of your opponents movements. I guess what prompted my views of mythology is that which has already been developed and put in place as opposed to that which you are specifially looking at here. From this point I would revise my position and say you have gone with the better title option for the book you have written.

As noted in my first post I feel that the Jedi still represents that next stage in skill. Where you have referenced bordering on Jedi-like skills this is where I liketo think the gap exists. They are that one step further in the discipline and their devotion to their training has seen them reach that "mythic" level of skill ;-)

Again thanks for keeping us updated in how things are coming. Please let us know when released so I can get my revised copy.

Cheers!