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What could be better than a kangaroo court? A kangaroo court sentencing people to die.

#46 User is offline   Snake Logan Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 12:58 AM

QUOTE (Otal Nimrodi @ Feb 17 2008, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wait a minute... That doesn't make much sense. Because he made a logical fallacy, you're making one too? So you're intentionally weakening your point? That doesn't seem like a good idea...


Just trying to make him understand by using his tactics against him.
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QUOTE (Game Over @ Feb 14 2008, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee, you are the Oscar Wilde of the 21st century.

QUOTE (Patch @ Feb 14 2008, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee is gay?!
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#47 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 11:41 AM

Now I really doubt that's true, because you have a history of logical fallacy after logical fallacy, and never in response to someone else's logical fallacy...
I am writing about Jm in my signature because apparently it's an effective method of ignoring him.
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#48 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 02:33 PM

Snake - I read that link. It's about the Taliban oppressing women. Just because you post a link it doesnt make it a source relevant to the debate. If you remember correctly I was asking for evidence of the talibans strict economic planning. Making women wear sheets is not economic planning.

Oh wait... I see what you were doing now. That article used the word "economic restrictions" once so you consider it a source and proof of their economic PLANNING (note, totally different thing). That's bloody impressive man.

QUOTE
The Taliban were created by the west. If it wasn’t for America, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, the Taliban would have never got off the ground.


Ah I see.... so do you consider them "westernized" then? And no, the movement was not created by the West. It was funded and helped a great deal but the basis for the movement was in Afghanistan and the peoples discontent with being dragged into the 20th century too quickly. Also, they may have been western stooges at some point, but something tells me theyve kinda stopped.

QUOTE
Why would he support western stooges in Afghanistan? If he supports western stooges in one part of the world then he probably supports western stooges in another part like Indochina
.

My "support" entails rebutting your insane quest to make the Taliban and Islamic nationalist movements out to be the third reich. Its funny how it works. You say they're fascists, I say no, so you say I'm supporting American stooges. Now you say they're american stooges and I say no, so next I'm sure you'll jabber about my support for fascism.

You can say Stalin was poppa smurf and I'll still say he wasnt, eve nthough I don't like him. If you want me to stop supporting people you dont like, stop making crazy statements about their supposed political orientation.

QUOTE
Well he assumed that because I called them clerical fascists, that I was a supporter of Bush and have something against an organization that has nothing to do with me. I am just playing by his rules.


I prefaced that statement with "you like dichotomies so heres one" which to any sensible person indicates that I knew it was silly and I was using it farsically. Also, using terminology coined for someones enemies against those enemies is indeed grounds to allege support for that someone. For instance. The minute I call you a bourgeoise of the oppressing class its fair to assume I'm a communist.


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#49 User is offline   Snake Logan Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Feb 18 2008, 06:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Snake - I read that link. It's about the Taliban oppressing women. Just because you post a link it doesnt make it a source relevant to the debate. If you remember correctly I was asking for evidence of the talibans strict economic planning. Making women wear sheets is not economic planning.

Oh wait... I see what you were doing now. That article used the word "economic restrictions" once so you consider it a source and proof of their economic PLANNING (note, totally different thing). That's bloody impressive man.


Here is an idea, rather then just dismissing the sources I put to you, how about you try to contribute something to the debate by proving to me that they didn’t have a planned economy.

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Feb 18 2008, 06:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ah I see.... so do you consider them "westernized" then? And no, the movement was not created by the West. It was funded and helped a great deal but the basis for the movement was in Afghanistan and the peoples discontent with being dragged into the 20th century too quickly. Also, they may have been western stooges at some point, but something tells me theyve kinda stopped.


I do consider them by-products of western meddling. They certainly aren’t westernized but then how many western stooges are actually westernized?

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Feb 18 2008, 06:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My "support" entails rebutting your insane quest to make the Taliban and Islamic nationalist movements out to be the third reich. Its funny how it works. You say they're fascists, I say no, so you say I'm supporting American stooges. Now you say they're american stooges and I say no, so next I'm sure you'll jabber about my support for fascism.

You can say Stalin was poppa smurf and I'll still say he wasnt, eve nthough I don't like him. If you want me to stop supporting people you dont like, stop making crazy statements about their supposed political orientation.


Its not crazy just because you don’t agree with me. You are yet to rebuttal my argument with a counterclaim. If they are not clerical fascists then what are they?

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Feb 18 2008, 06:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I prefaced that statement with "you like dichotomies so heres one" which to any sensible person indicates that I knew it was silly and I was using it farsically. Also, using terminology coined for someones enemies against those enemies is indeed grounds to allege support for that someone. For instance. The minute I call you a bourgeoise of the oppressing class its fair to assume I'm a communist.


Well I have spoken out against fascism and democracy… so what does that make me?

This post has been edited by Snake Logan: 17 February 2008 - 05:52 PM

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QUOTE (Game Over @ Feb 14 2008, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee, you are the Oscar Wilde of the 21st century.

QUOTE (Patch @ Feb 14 2008, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee is gay?!
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#50 User is offline   Simperin' Fool Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 06:07 PM

QUOTE
If they are not clerical fascists then what are they?


"Batcrap Insane"? That has a nice ring to it.

Why is it so important to have a label for them, anyway?

QUOTE
Well I have spoken out against fascism and democracy… so what does that make me?


http://www.youtube.c...h?v=OPYKZCVRBBk

Do-do-do-do, do-do, do-do-do...

This post has been edited by Simperin' Fool: 17 February 2008 - 06:08 PM

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#51 User is offline   ?!! Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 06:24 PM

I may be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure that it was the mujahideen that western states funded, and the taliban were created as a response to mujihadeen activity. The Taliban were never funded nor supported by western states.

And as far as the Taliban never getting off the ground thing goes, there were plenty of extremists who were opposed to soviet rule, especially because it went against what they stood for. Eventually the Taliban or something like them would have formed as an opposition force, with or without the interference of other groups.

This post has been edited by ?!!: 17 February 2008 - 06:27 PM

We're whalers on the moon
We carry a harpoon
But there ain't no whales so we tell tall tales
And sing a whaling tune

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#52 User is offline   Snake Logan Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 06:48 PM

QUOTE (Simperin' Fool @ Feb 18 2008, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Batcrap Insane"? That has a nice ring to it.

Why is it so important to have a label for them, anyway?


The thing is I made a statement and he is yet to offer an alternative.

QUOTE (?!! @ Feb 18 2008, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I may be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure that it was the mujahideen that western states funded, and the taliban were created as a response to mujihadeen activity. The Taliban were never funded nor supported by western states.


They came to power with the help of a western proxy.

QUOTE
In 1994, the predominately Pashtun Taliban Movement was formed in southern Afghanistan with Pakistani support.


QUOTE (?!! @ Feb 18 2008, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And as far as the Taliban never getting off the ground thing goes, there were plenty of extremists who were opposed to soviet rule, especially because it went against what they stood for. Eventually the Taliban or something like them would have formed as an opposition force, with or without the interference of other groups.


The west destabilized Afghanistan.

This post has been edited by Snake Logan: 17 February 2008 - 06:49 PM

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QUOTE (Game Over @ Feb 14 2008, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee, you are the Oscar Wilde of the 21st century.

QUOTE (Patch @ Feb 14 2008, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee is gay?!
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#53 User is offline   Simperin' Fool Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 07:14 PM

QUOTE
The thing is I made a statement and he is yet to offer an alternative.


You've yet to explain why it matters.
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#54 User is offline   ?!! Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE
The west destabilized Afghanistan.


Oh. Well if you put it that way, I win. Yay for me. Also, pickles are clearly made of hamsters.

This post has been edited by ?!!: 17 February 2008 - 07:38 PM

We're whalers on the moon
We carry a harpoon
But there ain't no whales so we tell tall tales
And sing a whaling tune

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#55 User is offline   Snake Logan Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 07:49 PM

QUOTE (Simperin' Fool @ Feb 18 2008, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You've yet to explain why it matters.


You have yet to tell me why you give a shit.

QUOTE (?!! @ Feb 18 2008, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh. Well if you put it that way, I win. Yay for me. Also, pickles are clearly made of hamsters.


You win nothing, Puto. If it wasn’t for the west, there would have been no war. The west funded and led the proxy war in Afghanistan against the communists.
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QUOTE (Game Over @ Feb 14 2008, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee, you are the Oscar Wilde of the 21st century.

QUOTE (Patch @ Feb 14 2008, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee is gay?!
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#56 User is offline   Simperin' Fool Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 08:22 PM

QUOTE
You have yet to tell me why you give a shit.


Because that's the whole point of this place.
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#57 User is offline   Snake Logan Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE (Simperin' Fool @ Feb 18 2008, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because that's the whole point of this place.


It matters because this can help me win the debate.
Word Vault
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QUOTE (Game Over @ Feb 14 2008, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee, you are the Oscar Wilde of the 21st century.

QUOTE (Patch @ Feb 14 2008, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yahtzee is gay?!
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#58 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 09:07 PM

America funds oppositional leaders like its the last day if the coup d’état sales. I imagine they probably haven't thought it through most of the time. I mean, they're consistantly getting applications for funds from mass murderers, and given that they probably don't even know where most of these leaders are from, they just give them a bit of cash and send them on their way.
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#59 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 04:39 AM

QUOTE
Here is an idea, rather then just dismissing the sources I put to you, how about you try to contribute something to the debate by proving to me that they didn’t have a planned economy.


That was not a source. that was an article that off handedly accused the taliban of making economic restrictions (ordering stores to close on friday is an economic restriction, not economic planning) If that was a source then your source needs to site its sources. And once again theres no way to prove a negative. But when I think state economic planning I do not think Taliban. Neither would any other sane person.

QUOTE
I do consider them by-products of western meddling. They certainly aren’t westernized but then how many western stooges are actually westernized?


Theyre really not Westernised. The Talib had very little connection with the US but were handled by Pakistani intelligence who shifted US materiel to them. The West happened to have interests that coincided with the taliban, thats it. I doubt they ever actually took orders from the US.

QUOTE
Its not crazy just because you don’t agree with me. You are yet to rebuttal my argument with a counterclaim. If they are not clerical fascists then what are they?


A counterclaim is not a requirement of a good argument, and the Taliban don't need a label. They were a theocracy if you absolutely need some label for them.

QUOTE
Well I have spoken out against fascism and democracy… so what does that make me?


Like the iroquois before you you are a communalist.

QUOTE
The thing is I made a statement and he is yet to offer an alternative.


Snake: Outer space smells like lilacs
JM: I've never been, but I doubt that.
Snake: You have failed to offer an alternative. Outer space smells like lilacs.

QUOTE
They came to power with the help of a western proxy.


Once again your citations are general statements. The main article that that statement SUMMARIZES is incomplete and has nothing on Pakistan's amount of involvement in the formation of the Taliban. The only thing it says is exactly what you quoted. It's the bare bones of an argument at best and at worst its just another sentence that you read and took for gospel without looking into the details in the slightest.

QUOTE
The west destabilized Afghanistan.


Ummm yeah man I'm not a big fan of the West here, and imperialism did do some fucked up shit... .But in this instance I'm not going to blame the west for the existence of the taliban and al qaeda entirely.

QUOTE
You have yet to tell me why you give a shit.


I expect because hes wondering why we need to have our own thesis just to argue against yours. I'm not a taliban scholar and I'll admit that, but I do know they're not western stooges so I'm happy to make that statement. If there was an actual problem and I criticised your solution without offering one of my own that would be grounds for calling me on it, but in a theoretical debate a conclusion is not required to know that someone else's conclusion is wrong.

QUOTE
The west funded and led the proxy war in Afghanistan against the communists.


Funded yes, but I seriously doubt they led the war or instigated it.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#60 User is offline   Ninja Duck Icon

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Feb 14 2008, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe I'm alone here, but between being told I couldnt pray and being tortured relentlessly for six years and then murdered, I think I'd take the former.


QUOTE
The threat of death and burial in some unmarked grave is no deterrent to those who love freedom. Indeed it holds a certain promise. Many of the best leaders of the twentieth century were laid in unarked graves by the US government, and my only fear is that I would not be worthy of their company.


Hm.
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