[Snake Logan]

I am all for this.

[Simperin' Fool]

What? Which part?

[Jordan]

The judge is making a political point. Islam is a shit religion and it's her own fault for adhering to it, which I agree with. However, the judge should have just said that as a "fuck you" and then allowed the divorce to commence.

[Snake Logan]

What? Which part?

That if a person follows a mainstream religion, they should be tried by the laws of that mainstream religion. If don’t want to be tried by those laws then get the hell out of that religion and practise a non-mainstream religion or a more liberal mainstream religion.

[Simperin' Fool]

That's insane, and goes back on the problem of "the law is supposed to be equal".

[Snake Logan]

Hey, if you want to apart of a religion that treats you like a second class citizen because you were born without a dick then its your fault. I mean, fuck, this isn’t Saudi Arabia, these women have made a consciences choice of being apart of this religion.

[Simperin' Fool]

That's where you're wrong. Not even considering the imperious nature of Islam (It's a capital crime to convert, and people are killed for it), children tend to feel a subconscious obligation to live up to the expectations of their family and peers. And it's all they know. So you have to deal with not only the weight of such a life-altering decision, but also with the knowledge that making that decision will bring down the wrath of your community, who will look upon you as a traitor and do everything they can to punish you for it.

Also, it's unfortunately very common for Muslim women to be tormented and harrassed by the men. They're oppressed, you see. If you don't wear the burkha, you're literally risking your life.

When you have to live in constant fear of your own life, it becomes a very difficult choice to make; you have to be sympathetic of that.

This post has been edited by Simperin' Fool: 08 February 2008 - 05:02 PM

[Snake Logan]

I can see your point. I withdraw my two previous statements.

[Jordan]

Lovely, so muslim women are enslaved.

[Casual]

Well I don’t care what the damn Koran says if you’re a woman in the UK you have rights whether you like it or not. Even if they are Muslim and agree to be bound by these laws I don’t want to see anyone in the UK being persecuted by the law that goes against MY beliefs.

[civilian_number_two]

How is chylds post racist? He used no racial slurs and didn’t bring being Arab into it at all.

I was referring to this bit:

I used to be fairly tolerant of immigration, raising an eyebrow at just about everyone I know complaining its fucking up our country. But they're right. I'm perfectly content with people plainly coming over here, working hard for their money, and obeying our laws. But they're sneaking in under the big train, scamming off of our (frankly ludicrous) welfare system, and now they're suggesting not just changing the law, but changing the whole freaking legal system to make them feel at home. Not to mention how nobody learns the language of whatever country they go into (I'll quite freely admit even I'd come under that banner)

Why I say that's racist is that it's the same claim made about every immigrant minority in every country in the world. No specific race was "slurred," but the same accusations were levelled. We don't have a large Arab population where I'm from, but every Arab I've met spoke English and had moderate religious adherence. Here the big slurs target Indians. And yeah, the older folks move in and at their advanced ages they take a lot longer to pick up the language. Usually the fathers drive cabs or get jobs as security guards, while the mothers get some production work in all-Indian workshops. The kids go to school and learn English and grow up Canadian. But if you ask White people, those folks refuse to learn the language, don't work, scam welfare and are ruining our society.

If you want less immigration, have more babies.

[Snake Logan]

Lovely, so muslim women are enslaved.

Aren’t they? Its a custom in Islam to cut off a boy’s foreskin and a girl’s clitoris. They have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Its always a reminder of what they are or what they are supposed to be.

[Casual]

I was referring to this bit:

Why I say that's racist is that it's the same claim made about every immigrant minority in every country in the world. No specific race was "slurred," but the same accusations were levelled. We don't have a large Arab population where I'm from, but every Arab I've met spoke English and had moderate religious adherence. Here the big slurs target Indians. And yeah, the older folks move in and at their advanced ages they take a lot longer to pick up the language. Usually the fathers drive cabs or get jobs as security guards, while the mothers get some production work in all-Indian workshops. The kids go to school and learn English and grow up Canadian. But if you ask White people, those folks refuse to learn the language, don't work, scam welfare and are ruining our society.

If you want less immigration, have more babies.

The reason I don’t think its racist is because in the UK we get immigrants from all over black, white Asian everyone and the white ones can be as irritating to deal with as anyone else therefore the blame goes on culture not race. Secondly what he says is exactly true; while many immigrants are a benefit to the UK I'm not exaggerating when I say the majority I've come across make my life more difficult. These aren’t people who are sitting at home sponging off benefits (though some do exist); these are people who hang around air ports being taxi touts and other equally annoying illegal jobs. Even ones who get perfectly legal jobs are a nuisance because they get jobs in the service sector where they have to interact with the public yet they can’t speak/understand English well. It’s not racist or a lie to point that out it’s simply a fact. Your comment is a perfect example of how political correctness has made it “racist” to make any criticism of immigration whatsoever even if your criticism raises valid points. I realise it doesn’t help that such things are usually said by the worst kind of idiot as excuses for their bigotry.

I'm not one of these hysterical people saying I'm losing my country and we should send them all home that would make me a hypocrite because my own grandfather was an immigrant (as everyone else’s family is at some point in the past). But he came to this country was able to speak English fluently, got a job, contributed and respected the laws. The reason I believe so strongly in my argument is because I'm not asking anyone to do anything me and my family haven’t done. Learn the language respect the laws/culture and contribute to society rather than take from it, is that so much to ask of any immigrant?

[Snake Logan]

(as everyone else’s family is at some point in the past)

Not if you are living in Britain. There are people there whose ancestors were the original proprietors of the land. Those people are known as the Welsh.

[Casual]

Firstly there are immigrants in Wales, secondly show me proof that the "welsh species" evolved into sentience on that spot and I'll accept I'm wrong. Yes the Welsh family groups go further back in history than English or Scottish ones but they still came there from somewhere else at some point. The Silures came to Wales from Iberia (ancient Spain).