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How NOT to become a Jedi

#16 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 10:38 AM

Children should not be taught how to use pencils! Those things can stab someone's eye out or stab someone in the jugular! rolleyes.gif I agree that children should not start actual weapons training until they're a fairly mature teenager and have a good bit of martial arts training behind them as well, but this is a plastic toy. You can hurt someone with any kind of toy. A kid could swallow a Lego or get hit in the eye by Barbie's pointy toes. My little brother and I have been play-fighting with the same kind of toy lightsaber you describe since he was 5, and the worst that's happened is a slight bruising, and that was my fault. He knows better than to hit someone as hard as possible, and even if he did, at 5-8, he's not really strong enough to do much damage, and around 9, he starts learning really pretty good control. And any kid that puts that up to an eyeball and then sproings it out has not been raised well, and that's the fault of the parents, not the toy.
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#17 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 06:02 PM



What does JTA teach to its participants?

Patience, following directions, the proper ways to handle and wield a lightsaber, the history and ways of a Jedi, the mysteries and power of the force, bravery, trusting in yourself, good versus evil, the awesome feeling of accomplishment, to name a few.
http://starwars.com/...0123/index.html


Above is a quote from the sw.com. Kind'a silly. Reaching a bit. And naively hopeful.

When I did my book talks in 1999 and 2002, I made it a point NOT to teach the kids anything because I knew they would just go home and try it out on someone else. I must qualify that I did show them basic posture, proper grip, and the basic movement, but I was not teaching. One of the things I showed them was how quick a strike was, and how perfectly I could stop the strike inches from a volunteer's head. "Very impressive." Actually, "quite impressive." It was all part of the "show."

First of all, neither Disney nor LFL should be teaching people how to use weapons, even mock weapons. Play is one thing, but "playing" with fake weapons -- be they Halloween props, fallen branches, or fencing equipment -- will inevitably lead to injury. Instruction of fencing (sport), stage fencing (skill), or authentic fencing (combat) should always be done with supervision.

But we all know kids (even adult "kids") will fool around. I did it. You did it. Just about every boy (and many girls) did it. And did it lead to injury? Probably not. Usually one gets smacked on the hand so hard that he drops the stick and refuses to play any more. Here's the caveat. Teaching combat is teaching someone how to hurt or kill an opponent. No respectable teacher does this except under very controlled situations.

The other thing is that even if a general audience is shown real technique, they are typically inept in copying it. It takes a very long time to train an actor in any martial activity. And even then, the true expert can easily discern their imitation. In SW, Ray Park is the best technically and artistically.

We all understand the need to have an interactive show, but the lightsaber performers should be the stunt people, not the audience. Just like any Renaissance fair.


Look at the pic above. Is Disney not simply looking for a lawsuit? The actor in the Vader suit can barely see through the mask's eye peices and his lightsaber looks pretty solid. The little girl's got a flimsy toy.


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#18 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 02:53 AM

Well ok, Saberist. Kids should be taught proper weapon use then. Since they're not likely to use actual swords, they should be taught safety protocol and storage of handguns. They should be encouraged to keep their guns clean and separate from the ammunition until such time as they should be put to use. Foremost, they should be taught that a handgun is a tool, and its use is to put destructuive holes in the bodies of other people, preferably bullies and rival rap artists. It is not a toy nor a subject for show and tell.

And they should be encouraged to play with toys, like plastic lightsabers. When I was a kid the lightsabers were flimsy garbage, so my friends and I would whack at one another with dowelling we bought at the hardware store, or with discarded poster tubes. We belted one another pretty hard. We also had guns we made from clothespins, that fired the metal part of one clothespin out of the mouth of another using elastic bands. Those things hurt like an assfucking, and I remember one game ending abruptly when we saw that friend of ours, struck square in the forehead, was bleeding so heavy it looked like he'd had the front of his skull torn open with a machete. Those were good times. I suppose with proper weapons training we wouldn't have done those things, because kids when properly counselled by adults seldom get into any horseplay, like the time we dove into a dumpster and, finding a rotting discarded ham, chose to throw it at the windshield of a passing car. I'm sure a clever lawyer could have blamed that one on Starskey and Hutch.

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#19 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 03:28 AM

Are people in this thread actually complaining about kids being shown how to play with lightsabers? I hope not because if so the "think of the children" set has invaded these boards and there are few lower on the ladder than them. The reasons for this are two fold:

First of all, if you dont show a kid the proper way to swing a stick, theyre still going to swing a stick. Probably in an improper way. And if you keep your children away from sticks entirely, youre a fucking jackass and the first time your kid finally DOES find a stick, that fucker is going straight through an eye.

Second of all, any kid who kills themself with a toy lightsaber is not a kid I want contributing to my species gene pool so I look at it as a gain for the human race. Sorry, mom and dad, but if you cant teach your kid that blunt neon rods shouldnt be shoved in the eye socket, you do not deserve successful reproduction.

Anyhow, toy lightsabers are totally rad. I had no one to teach me to play with lightsabers or, later, swords, so me and my friends just winged it. I have scars to prove it. These kids are being tought by an instructor in an environment of respect and safety similiar to martial arts or any athletic thing. And speaking of athletics:

JESUS FUCK KIDS HAVE WIFFLE BATS THRUST INTO THEIR HANDS EVERY DAY HUMANITY IS TEH D00MED!!!!1111

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#20 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:37 AM

I, for one, am all for strengthening the gene pool. Anyone see Idiocracy? Great movie. What's worse is that I actually find myself in situations as if I were in Idiocracy.

Lightsaber toys are terrible things! They're oversized, unbalanced, short-bladed, and break so easily. How would you ever become a Jedi playing with such things?!? You should see some of the custom-made blades people have crafted.

I still think Disney should give a good performance, not teach the kids stuff. Parents should also tell their kids not to stick fight. It doesn't matter though. They'll go around the corner and do it anyway. If the parents think their kids are going to fight anyway, they should enroll them in some (any) martial arts class. Adults will play around -- very nice! -- but if they get serious about it, they'll eventually realize they look like shit and will possibly try to find someone to teach them more.

Anyone see Fight Club Dog Brothers on National Geographic? No holds barred, but with an emphasis on male bonding. Nick Gillard, who did choreography for prequels, is like one of these guys.
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#21 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 04:20 PM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Jan 29 2008, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think you're completely wrong that Star Wars toys are so potentially lethal. I mean, that weight you're talking about, it's all in the handle, right? Ah whatever, why don't you tell me how many injuries and lawsuits there have been in the 10 years since TPM, when these toys came out? I also express doubt if you don't mind that a flashlight could potentially blind someone "for life," but I'm sure you'll tell me it's a secret NASA high powered laser or some such nonsense. So Lucas not only makes stupid movies, he also has no sense of age-appropriate toys? That, or maybe you're taking this waaaaaaaayyyyy too seriously?

I agree with the original comment of course that that dude looks ridiculous holding the thing with his hands over one another like that. I scoff at all the other pretentious garbage about how you're a master warrior of the plastic flashlight-sword and how you object to this on the grounds that it is injurious to your noble and ancient art.

Please let me know how those lawsuits are coming.



Actually the toys have been out longer than that. My friend and I bought a pair on our way to the opening screening of "A New Hope: the Special Edition" (January 1997). There are lots of lightsaber toys on the market, some of them are a bit heavier in the telescoping plastic (the "light up" ones use a transparent hard rubber that's actually lighter and softer), but unless you smash somebody in the face or groin with the butt end, they're not going to do much damage. The telescoping parts actually break off if you swing it too hard against a solid object. The "whooshing sounds" only occur when you tap the edge of the "blade" against something (it's not the speed of the swing or stroke that triggers it). And the light is a pretty dim flash light, dimmed through the colored plastic (of course not all toy lightsabers light up).

As far as toy swords go, these are probably some of the least dangerous out there (unlike the ones that actually have sharp edges and aren't telescoping). About the worst danger for these is poking somebody in the eye (and you can't eat the batteries because most of them require you remove a screw to even get them out, though that's not the case with all of the sound/light up varieties, some just twist off, but the batteries are larger in those cases).



It could be worse... you could have dumb teenagers bashing at each other with metal rods or (even worse still) neon tubes full of potentially explosive/toxic gas!

This post has been edited by KurganX: 02 February 2008 - 04:23 PM

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#22 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 03:45 AM

What would be truly kick arse is if they had a Sith academy across the street. They'd send kids home after training them in force lightening and how you can gain strength through passion. I'm totally thinking of the crazy guy in Tulak Horde's tomb for the instructor.

"If you swing your saber wrong I'll torture you, but if you do it right Mikal gets zapped bwahahahaha"

I'm sure that would get a lot more complaints from parents who found themselves hopping around on flawlessly cauterized stumps, but its only natural that something that rad would have a price.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 04 February 2008 - 03:47 AM

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#23 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 09:35 AM

I imagine the Jedi dream academy ain't cheap. Probably less $ than Spacecamp. Of course, Disney could team up with Nasa because they're all about fairy tales anyway.
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Posted 06 February 2008 - 05:46 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Feb 4 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm sure that would get a lot more complaints from parents who found themselves hopping around on flawlessly cauterized stumps, but its only natural that something that rad would have a price.


laugh.gif


I would gladly save up the money
to send any children i may have to Camp Jedi.
Would go myself but too old am i.

I imagine Sith School would be cheaper
and geared toward the less fortunate
simply so they could harness all that hate

and focus it soley on those fatcat rich Jedi
that receive all the rewards none of the suffering
or at least thats what i would do as Headmistress Darth Jade devil.gif


or something to that effect


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There's a lightside, a darkside

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#25 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 09:46 AM

QUOTE (njamilla @ Feb 2 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I, for one, am all for strengthening the gene pool. Anyone see Idiocracy? Great movie. What's worse is that I actually find myself in situations as if I were in Idiocracy.


Fantastic movie!

I think the only thing those kids are in danger of is learning poor sword-handling skills.

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#26 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 11:58 AM

They're also up for some dumbed down star wars sword swallowing. Well meaning parents, I'm sure. But when I have kids, we'll go to Islands of Adventure.
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#27 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 06:58 PM

Ah yes, children with lightsabres. My favorite absurdity. I don't care how good your training methodes are, kids are going to get seriously wiped out amazingly fast in that situation.

As if you would introduce such a voloitile element at such an early stage. Those things aren't even realistically safe in teh hands of adults. They're more dangerous and prone to collateral damage than chainsaws.

At the very least, why not get the kids started on chainsaws? It would be 800% safer.

QUOTE (njamilla @ Feb 2 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I, for one, am all for strengthening the gene pool. Anyone see Idiocracy? Great movie. What's worse is that I actually find myself in situations as if I were in Idiocracy.


Movie?

That, my friend, was a documentary.
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#28 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 02:49 AM

QUOTE (barend @ Feb 7 2008, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At the very least, why not get the kids started on chainsaws? It would be 800% safer.

Yeah. "Jedi Academy. First Year deaths now down to one in eight (from eight)!"

(Please don't anyone correct the math)
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#29 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 09:23 AM

Like all of the other deaths at Disneyland, there'll be a settlement and it'll be swept under the rug.
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Posted 08 February 2008 - 12:29 PM

They sweep the kids under the rug?
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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