[Just your average movie goer]

I loved that post, Despondent. You have a way with words.

[AdmiralViscen]

Boba Fett has only 4 purpose in ROTJ, 1. to strengthen Han Solos character and background. 2. To give insight on the Clone Wars 3. Scenery for the gangster underworld that exists in the SW Universe 4. Deliver Han from the imperials to jabba. That's it.

Uh, number two is bullshit. Keep revisionist history out of here.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

Boba Fett has only 4 purpose in ROTJ, 1. to strengthen Han Solos character and background. 2. To give insight on the Clone Wars 3. Scenery for the gangster underworld that exists in the SW Universe 4. Deliver Han from the imperials to jabba. That's it.



Uh, number two is bullshit. Keep revisionist history out of here.

In the screenplay and in the ESB and ROTJ novels it is stated that Boba Fett wears the armor and uniform of a clone soldier. The concept of Boba Fett being connected with the clone wars was conceived WAAAAYYY before the prequels were even a thought in Lucas mind. Read the novel adaptation of ESB and ANH.

[Just your average movie goer]

Admiral Viscen's point is still valid though. If it wasn't in the movies, then it doesn't count as far as I'm concerned. If Lucas was serious about using Boba Fett to make a link to the clone wars during the filming of the original trilogy, then he should have put it in the movies. If he left it out, that's his problem.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

so of course he needs to be in JEDI. As with the long time ago referred to by obi-wan in SW, I'd imagined some grand and glorious shootout with the mysterious boba fett in Jedi.

Again it comes down to how much of a character do you want to make out of Boba Fett. And also can 2 hour and 15 minute movie that needs to explain a lot use up time in a battle with a minor character.

To accomodate that type of a shoot out fight you would have to go with a different diretion with Episode VI.

I think all of us can agree that hate or love ROTJ, it is still a competent made movie. {unlike the PTs}

One of the nice things that was done in ROTJ is that the "Han solo" rescue was not intertwined with any of the imperial-rebel war plotlines. The movie begins with the Vader entrance and emperor's mention, then the movie concentrates with the "Han Solo" rescue and goes on to the other plotlines after it is finished. In fact the first scene is the entrance of the emperor. Any other scenes during the "Han solo" rescue would have taken away from the intrigue of the rescue

I think people forget that the whole point of the "Han rescue" was not that it was a sinificant plotline or cliffhanger but that it was symbolic to Luke's development. Luke came home {Tattoine} asa jedi knight and rescued the man that needed nobody to rescue him, and the man that had rescued Luke several times. The student has learned and come home. That was the significsnce of the movie and the real plot and theme of ROTJ and the OT. This star Wars trilogy is about he develpment of a person.

ANH- You start of young, board and naive, you dream of winning the girl and being a hero, and of becoming as a good a man as your father. You meet a teacher that is sympathetic. You win a battle

ESB- You mature a little, you realize the tragedies and seriousness that life can have but you still retain your dreams, unjaded. Soon you meet another teacher harder than the previous and one that you think is completely wrong. You think you are now ready for the great event you set your life around. You meet the challenge, but lose. In fact you lose a lot, your idealism, truth and something irreplaceable. Suddenly your value systems have been turned around.

ROTJ -You have matured due to your losses. You have finally understood what your previous teacher was trying to tell you. You are now wise, concious and skilled but you no longer have that idealism or youth that you once had. The loss will stay with you forever. You realize that your relationship with the girl of your dreams has changed, but you knew that from the beginning and realized that those feelings were really different. You go back to the teacher and realize that the lessons have already been learned, there are no more teachers to back you up, your are alone. The thing you wanted to do from the beginning is no longer wanted {the revenge against Vader} now you do what is the improtant and right thing to do {defeat Vader and somehow turn him to the darkside}. You finaly live up to your father, and most importantly you get to know him. You are now a man.

That is what Star Wars was really about----the individual man and the journey that each man must make in their life. This particular journey was done in the background of an intergalactic space battle.

Wow, this is one of my better posts in a while . I am gonna post this as a topic. to explain it further...

[civilian_number_two]

I'm not sure how long I was gone, but you guys just went nine rounds over the relevance of Boba Fett in RETURN OF THE JEDI. Wow.

I know Mike wants JEDI to be perfect, or as good as it can be, and is as willing as a force.net member to create an elaborate backstory for a villain who was no more than a cheap costume. I say I know this, because this is what you're doing, Mike, in the same way you like to believe that Darth Maul might have been a good character, based on nothing but some goofy makeup and a lot of jumping around.

Boba Fett should not have been in JEDI. According to you this all happens nine months after EMPIRE. Ok: so Boba is now Jabba's employee. That's as good as it gets? Boba is working as Jabba's henchman / bodyguard, and is somehow serving a vital narrative role in establishing the criminal underworld of the galaxy, an underworld that naturally plays no further part in the entire film. I think it's no secret I was disappoined by JEDI, but I think everything after the stupid muppet show that was Jabba's barge was at least nine times better than what it followed.

And I think that Boba Fett being there was the worst aspect of the entire scene, worse still than the robot torture or the little gremlin ripping out 3P0's eye. I just can't suspend disbelief when I can actually hear Lucas talking to Kenner about how popular this "character" is and all the toys he will sell. Boba was in JEDI for the same reason he's in the prequels: Lucas is not a storyteller; he's a salesman. A good storyteller knows when to put a character away. A good salesman invests in the product that sells.

[Just your average movie goer]

A good storyteller knows when to put a character away.

Exactly! You've hit the nail on the head, Civilian.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

Quote

I know Mike wants JEDI to be perfect, or as good as it can be, and is as willing as a force.net member to create an elaborate backstory for a villain who was no more than a cheap costume. I say I know this, because this is what you're doing, Mike, in the same way you like to believe that Darth Maul might have been a good character, based on nothing but some goofy makeup and a lot of jumping around.

What the heck are you saying civ :angry: . I am the person that has been saying on this forum that Boba Fett isn't an important character. That's why his death didn;t have to be anything to dramatic and significant.

I am not the one that created the concept that Boba Fett was a clone warrrior or had some connection. I clearly remember this point coming across in the novelization and in various Star Wars memorobilia way back in 1984!!!! Hell there is a 1985 Frosted Flakes trading card I have that states that Boba fett was a Mandallrian warrior and wore a uniform of the clone warriors. So complain to lucas for the backstory not me!!!!! :angry:

Quote

Darth Maul might have been a good character, based on nothing but some goofy makeup and a lot of jumping around.

[/QUOTE]


Absolutely not!!! Darth Maul would be a good character if he was developed properly had a background story and actual had some significant lines in the story. He is far more important a charcter than Boba fett in the Star Wars mythos, I will tell you that. And was the Emperor's apprentice before Anakin. You don;t think that that role is more than a little significant? I commend Lucas for creating a unique character in Darth Maul and not going for a "Darth Vader" clone which is what I though he might do in the prequels. Darth vader is different from Darth maul, which was a good idea. The proble I have with Darth Maul is if you are going to go down that path at least get a decent actor and have some actuall points of dialogue with him. And for godsakes, don't kill him off in the first movie!!! And don;t let him get replaced by a far more boring character in Count Dooku, that has absolutely NO relevance to the story.

[Vwing]

You know what, Dooku may be boring, and he may have a stupid name (2 stupid names actually, Darth Tyranus sucks too), but at least he was a CHARACTER. He had motivation, he was a good Jedi gone bad, perhaps signifying how Anakin will as well. Darth Maul has makeup, horns, and a cool lightsaber. I don't know about you, but if Dooku is done right, he is a MUCH more interesting character than Maul. Not to mention the fact that he is human. Don't want to sound like I'm prejudiced against aliens but we as an audience, I believe, relate much more to a human bad guy with human emotions than an alien bad guy. Also, it's cool to make Dooku older and experienced, so that we can see how the Dark Side can corrupt even older, wiser Jedi.

However, what was beyond stupid was having TWO apprentices before Anakin, also confirming my thoughts that TPM, even if you think it was better than AOTC, was a pointless movie that stunted the growth of the Prequel Trilogy. Maul was pointless. Dooku should have been the villain introduced in TPM who we get to know and "root" for (as we "rooted" for Vader), or if you like Maul so much, then Maul should have been the villain in all 3. But not 2 apprentices. That's just downright silly.

And Mike, again, that was a big problem with ROTJ for me, that Fett dies like a pussy. He does deserve a noble death, not to be on the short end of a burp joke (one was enough with that toad thing). If you don't want Han to kill him, then fine, have Luke kill him, or Leia, or Chewie, or Lando, but have it done INTENTIONALLY. In my opinion, that, more than the Ewoks which I will defend as a Force.Net person, was the precursor to the prequels (such as when Jar-Jar is accidentally defeating the droid army). This guy is supposed to be a badass bounty hunter. Give him a good death. Not necessarily long and drawn out, but good. And I do think Fett should have been in it. Don't make him there as a bodyguard, maybe have him come by delivering a bounty, and then he stays for a bit. Then during the battle, since Boba sees Han, his bounty, escaping, he tries to kill him, but Han knocks him down. He's hanging on to the ledge and Solo, with the pike, can easily knock him off into the Sarlaac pit. Fett says "You know, it was never anything more than business with you." And Han replies "Yeah. I know." Fett nods, and Solo pushes him into the pit, a 30 second scene that takes nothing away from the rest of the battle and gives him a proper bounty hunter death.

This post has been edited by Vwing: 06 May 2004 - 02:12 PM

[AdmiralViscen]

Do you have quotes from those books? I've read them in the past, and I still own them, but I don't remember any mention of that.

[Despondent]

Is Palpatine old enough to be Dooku's (I just love how stupid that sounds. Dooku ) master? Seems Palpy's the younger to me. So, when his prodigy falls to a silent death (More noble than Luke's scream incidentally) he goes after the oldest human jedi around and says "let me share with you the secrets and the power of the dark side? (and doesn't get his ass kicked in return" )

[Despondent]

And what's with the secret identity? I suppose Darth Dooku sounded silly? why didn't get to have Maul have a secret identity?

[Despondent]

Why didn't Maul get to have a secret identity?


sorry for the sloppy post.

[civilian_number_two]

What the heck are you saying civ :angry: . I am the person that has been saying on this forum that Boba Fett isn't an important character. That's why his death didn;t have to be anything to dramatic and significant.

I am not the one that created the concept that Boba Fett was a clone warrrior or had some connection. I clearly remember this point coming across in the novelization and in various Star Wars memorobilia way back in 1984!!!! Hell there is a 1985 Frosted Flakes trading card I have that states that Boba fett was a Mandallrian warrior and wore a uniform of the clone warriors. So complain to lucas for the backstory not me!!!!! :angry:

I wasn't talking about any of that. I was talking about this:

The insinuation being made is that after capturing Han Solo, Jabba so pleased with Boba Fetts work, that he decided to give Boba Fett a permanent job as a bodyguard/enforcer in his crime organization. I imagine Boba Fett jumped on this opportunity. I mean what would you prefer scouring around the universe after low-lifes for commisioned pay or being in Jabba's court and having a fat salary each week and getting all the slave girls you want. No brainer. By going after Luke and Han Boba was doing his job, protecting Jabba and enforcing his wishes.

And this:

In Boba Fetts shoes what would you be, a vagabond or settle down in a palace with all slave girls you can get and money getting thrown at you. Plus you still get to go on adventures to slice up Jabba's competition hunt other deadbeats, and assasinate political officials.
Boba's in it for the money.

and this:

5. There is a genius to the way Boba Fett dies.

All of these comments come from the same place: Boba Fett is in the movie, he was used poorly (unless you're a big fan of dumb comic relief), and I need to justify his beign there, or admit that it was stupid to include him. The other place to start is this: there is no movie, there is no sail barge, or Sarlacc pit, or second Death Star, or anythong. you have a blank page. Now: WHY s Boba Fett important to the continued story? I'll buy any argument that Jabba, whom we've never seen, absolutely has to be in the movie, but why Boba Fett?

Absolutely not!!! Darth Maul would be a good character if he was developed properly had a background story and actual had some significant lines in the story. He is far more important a charcter than Boba fett in the Star Wars mythos, I will tell you that. And was the Emperor's apprentice before Anakin. You don;t think that that role is more than a little significant?

At the risk of being obvious, I think ANY character would be better in ANY movie if he is in a central role an is upgraded from no story and no dialogue to some story and some dialogue. I think even a shitty director like Michael Bay would agree to cut out a car chase if he absolutely needed a scene that showed a central character's motivation.

And at the risk of being fatuous, no I don't think the role of Darth Maul as Emperor's apprentice before Anikin is in any way significant, since frankly the prequels suck and I don't think anything in them is significant. I would not have made a two-bad-guy universe; frankly it's inane. Lucas ruined any possibility of a good prequel trilogy when he played out a few key concepts, being 1) jedi council 2) greedy Trade Federation 3) dumb cameos and 4) there are only ever two bad Jedi, a rule he was pretty quick to brak, I understand, by writing in count Poodoo in the next film. (Which I still haven't seen, at nearly two years and counting!)

[Jordan]

) there are only ever two bad Jedi, a

This is a great point. How could the sith ever be a threat? One sith lord kills all the Jedi, it's amazing how they stood for 1000's of years.

Arguing about the prequels is a waste of time, since they themselves are wastes of time.

Starwars was never a good movie. It was the first good sci-fi. It had a couple cool elements, namely 1) Vader is Luke's father 2) um, that is it.

Sometimes I wish that starwars was never created. This way I could use the father versus son story for my script that I'm working on. It's powerful and also a nice plot twist.

I wonder if Starwars would have such a cult following if Lucas never got into merchandising. I wonder if it would even be regarded as 'great'.

All the indian jones movies sucked, ESB and Starwars were good, ROTJ was ok. Why is Lucas so successful?

This post has been edited by Jordan: 06 May 2004 - 09:27 PM