[J m HofMarN]

Fine. Do you believe the Serbs in Bosnia or the Armenians in Azerbaijan should be allowed to succeed?

I believe that success and freedom is the right of every sentient being. As for whether they can secede I say if theyre willing to fight hard enoguh for it and have legitimate complaints (such as two massively destructive wars and a complete genocide against their people) then sure go for it.

Emergency powers were introduced in 1993. He made that statement in 1991.

Ok your time line is out of this world. The Russian constitution, as I stated, was adopted while Yeltsin had emergency powers. So in 1991 he must have been referencing the Soviet constitution. Also the business in Chechnya started in 1994.

Russia is trying to maintain control of fucking Russia. Not an sovereign nation… one of its provinces.

And werent the colonialised parts of Africa, Asia and South America provinces under European imperialism? Weren't the people "better off"?

So because Chechens are allowed to travel within their occupyer, they should just kneel down and take it?

They are also allowed to get jobs and buy property.

So because Russia is so benevolent as to allow them to travel, buy things and have jobs, they should just bow down?

I mean do you consider it decent to bow down to invasion and occupation just because you might be "better off"?

Depends. If my fellow countrymen and I are better off then yes.

Note to self: Invade Australia, promise punch and pie for all.

Subnote: Make Snake my Australian puppet governor after promising him the right to buy stuff and have a job.

Sub sub note: Watch out for Barend.

The actions of Stalin don’t represent Russia at all. He was the leader of the USSR. His successor reversed almost everything he done.

I'll quote you on that next time I mention communism and "bring it into the debate"

If you'd bothered to read the rest of the Wikipedia article you yourself cited, rather than just taking from it some shit Yeltsin said that fit your argument, you wouldnt need a source. I am not going to bend over backwards to make up for your selective reading.

So you are not going to give me your sources?

No. No I am not. Not if you can't understand the above paragraph or if you lack memory enough to recall what Wikipedia entry you took a Yeltsin quote from one fuck page ago.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 06 February 2008 - 02:16 PM

[Slade]

Oh. My apologies on the homo/homicest thing. I forgot its etymology so quickly. Carry on.

[Snake Logan]

I believe that success and freedom is the right of every sentient being. As for whether they can secede I say if theyre willing to fight hard enoguh for it and have legitimate complaints (such as two massively destructive wars and a complete genocide against their people) then sure go for it.

So you are all for creating hundreds of wars throughout the world. Possibly killing millions of people for the sake symbolism.

Ok your time line is out of this world. The Russian constitution, as I stated, was adopted while Yeltsin had emergency powers. So in 1991 he must have been referencing the Soviet constitution. Also the business in Chechnya started in 1994.

Since 1991 it was determined the Chechnya had no right to secede. That is my point.

And werent the colonialised parts of Africa, Asia and South America provinces under European imperialism? Weren't the people "better off"?

Not for the locals, they weren’t.

So because Russia is so benevolent as to allow them to travel, buy things and have jobs, they should just bow down?

Bow down to what? What it be better to bow down to drug lords and gang leaders?

Note to self: Invade Australia, promise punch and pie for all.

Subnote: Make Snake my Australian puppet governor after promising him the right to buy stuff and have a job.

Sub sub note: Watch out for Barend.

Perhaps you’re a self serving naive fool but I certainly am not. Unless my countrymen and I are better off, no deal.

I'll quote you on that next time I mention communism and "bring it into the debate"

Indeed you should.

No. No I am not. Not if you can't understand the above paragraph or if you lack memory enough to recall what Wikipedia entry you took a Yeltsin quote from one fuck page ago.

So no sources then. I just want to know what websites you go to.

[Snake Logan]

Oh. My apologies on the homo/homicest thing. I forgot its etymology so quickly. Carry on.

Its called Incesticide now. Get with the times!

[J m HofMarN]

As for whether they can secede I say if theyre willing to fight hard enoguh for it and have legitimate complaints (such as two massively destructive wars and a complete genocide against their people) then sure go for it.

So you are all for creating hundreds of wars throughout the world. Possibly killing millions of people for the sake symbolism.

There were conditions in my post. And having a nation is not just a symbol.

Since 1991 it was determined the Chechnya had no right to secede. That is my point.

Determined by those occupying Chechnya, yes. Good for them. You know who else determined that people had no right ot secede? Everyone else who has ever occupied another country ever.

So because Russia is so benevolent as to allow them to travel, buy things and have jobs, they should just bow down?

Bow down to what? What it be better to bow down to drug lords and gang leaders?

Chechnya had an elected government before Russia invaded. And I would rather have drug lords and gang leaders from my own country running around then invaders from another country.

Note to self: Invade Australia, promise punch and pie for all.

Subnote: Make Snake my Australian puppet governor after promising him the right to buy stuff and have a job.

Sub sub note: Watch out for Barend.

Perhaps you’re a self serving naive fool but I certainly am not. Unless my countrymen and I are better off, no deal.

I made an offer of punch and pie, what else do you require to sell out your nation? Dinner and a movie?

No. No I am not. Not if you can't understand the above paragraph or if you lack memory enough to recall what Wikipedia entry you took a Yeltsin quote from one fuck page ago.

So no sources then. I just want to know what websites you go to.

[censored] your [censored] and your [censored] complete inability to grasp [censored] anything that doesnt agree with your [censored, [censored] arguments.

Wikipedia entry you took a Yeltsin quote from one fuck page ago.

THERES A SUBTLE HINT IN THERE SOMEWHERE. CAN YOU MAYBE FIND IT ON YOUR OWN?\

Oh. My apologies on the homo/homicest thing. I forgot its etymology so quickly. Carry on.

Its called Incesticide now. Get with the times!

So let me get this straight. You changed the name/definition/whatever of your made up word to rip off the name of a nirvana album which, by its roots, must be utterly different?

cide is killing,
incest is sex between family
homo is same sex

so homo+incest would be gay incest
incest+cide would be killing those who commit incest.

I feel stupider for having had to explain that, and if you were trying to make a joke I feel even stupider for having read it.

[Simperin' Fool]

They already have words for that anyway. Patricide, matricide, fratricide...

[Snake Logan]

There were conditions in my post. And having a nation is not just a symbol.

That genocide was brought about them? Well, if you count communist genocides then that is every single fucking people in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and South East Asia. If you count genocide committed by a foreign country then that basically includes all of South America and all of Sub Sahara Africa. That’s a lot of wars with a lot of people dead.

Determined by those occupying Chechnya, yes. Good for them. You know who else determined that people had no right ot secede? Everyone else who has ever occupied another country ever.

If you don’t recognise the laws of a sovereign state then fine.

Chechnya had an elected government before Russia invaded. And I would rather have drug lords and gang leaders from my own country running around then invaders from another country.

Nevada has an elected official, does that make Nevada an independent state?

I made an offer of punch and pie, what else do you require to sell out your nation? Dinner and a movie?

Sell out my nation? Perhaps your hard of reading but unless it benefits my entire country, every single one of my countrymen, then no deal.

[censored] your [censored] and your [censored] complete inability to grasp [censored] anything that doesnt agree with your [censored, [censored] arguments.
THERES A SUBTLE HINT IN THERE SOMEWHERE. CAN YOU MAYBE FIND IT ON YOUR OWN?\

I am asking for your sources of information. You are obviously too ashamed to show your sources for reasons I cannot understand. Just show me your fucking sources and stop being a prick about it. I don’t mean your sources on Chechnya, I mean your sources on EVERYTHING.

So let me get this straight. You changed the name/definition/whatever of your made up word to rip off the name of a nirvana album which, by its roots, must be utterly different?

cide is killing,
incest is sex between family
homo is same sex

so homo+incest would be gay incest
incest+cide would be killing those who commit incest.

I feel stupider for having had to explain that, and if you were trying to make a joke I feel even stupider for having read it.

I cant believe you took a make believe word so literally. Incesticide, in my definition which is the only real definition, is killing inside the family, Homicest was the same thing until I realised people like you might misinterpreted it. You see, I took Homicide and Incest and combine them.

[J m HofMarN]

That genocide was brought about them? Well, if you count communist genocides then that is every single fucking people in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and South East Asia. If you count genocide committed by a foreign country then that basically includes all of South America and all of Sub Sahara Africa. That’s a lot of wars with a lot of people dead.

Ummm... Snake... just about all of those nations in the areas you mentioned DID have wars and DID gain their independence. You're not helping yourself much.

If you don’t recognise the laws of a sovereign state then fine.

Very well, you failed to accept my offer of punch and pie if you let me take over your country, now we'll do it the hard way. The laws of Hoffland, written upon a hallowed cocktail napkin, say I own your ass.

Chechnya had an elected government before Russia invaded. And I would rather have drug lords and gang leaders from my own country running around then invaders from another country.

Nevada has an elected official, does that make Nevada an independent state?

It's adorable that you quote me and then misquote me in the next sentence. Not going to dignify this with a response, sorry.

I made an offer of punch and pie, what else do you require to sell out your nation? Dinner and a movie?

Sell out my nation? Perhaps your hard of reading but unless it benefits my entire country, every single one of my countrymen, then no deal.

Ah well youre a good citizen then since that means you'll never turn on your country. But now theres a tiny little problem. You see I seem to have reversed the argument. You originally said that if a country (chechnya) was better off under occupation it should submit. I then asked if you would do the same and through some cajoling and the implication that you were a prospective traitor, I got you to make this statement, which basically guarantees that you would never accept foreign occupation of your nation.

Do you believe that every single Chechen is better off (including those who have disappeared, opposition politicians who are now banned, those who have been tortured, the families of the disappeared, etc)? If not then you must stand against the occupation by your own statement.

I am asking for your sources of information. You are obviously too ashamed to show your sources for reasons I cannot understand. Just show me your fucking sources and stop being a prick about it. I don’t mean your sources on Chechnya, I mean your source on EVERYTHING.

...Your mom?

I cant believe you took a make believe word so literally. Incesticide, in my definition which is the only real definition

No I think I'm going to go with Kurt Cobain's definition. Soon as you sell a half million albums with that name you'll be the new authority on the word.

Homicest was the same thing until I realised people like you might misinterpreted it. You see, I took Homicide and Incest and combine them.

You use made up words with definitions contrary to the meanings of their base words while providing no definitions until pressed, and then you say I fail to cite sources? You're a [censored], dude.

And moderators, that's a legitimate statement as part of my debate, not an insult. I would like to make it my platform that Snake Logan is in fact a large [censored]. I am prepared to cite my source (his mom) to back this up and use various logical arguments and posts as evidence.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 08 February 2008 - 10:49 PM

[Snake Logan]

Ummm... Snake... just about all of those nations in the areas you mentioned DID have wars and DID gain their independence. You're not helping yourself much.

I was talking about areas in a nation with large ethnic areas that don’t want to be ruled by that nation and want to ‘return’ to the mother country.

Very well, you failed to accept my offer of punch and pie if you let me take over your country, now we'll do it the hard way. The laws of Hoffland, written upon a hallowed cocktail napkin, say I own your ass.

Except war is against international law in the first place. So even if you do somehow manage to take over Australia, however doubtful that is, you still have to somehow justify your illegal war and occupation of my country. You wont be able to.

It's adorable that you quote me and then misquote me in the next sentence. Not going to dignify this with a response, sorry.

Indeed.

Ah well youre a good citizen then since that means you'll never turn on your country. But now theres a tiny little problem. You see I seem to have reversed the argument. You originally said that if a country (chechnya) was better off under occupation it should submit. I then asked if you would do the same and through some cajoling and the implication that you were a prospective traitor, I got you to make this statement, which basically guarantees that you would never accept foreign occupation of your nation.

Unless it was beneficial to all my people. Fuck, how can you not understand this? I would prefer to live under the Commonwealth banner if it was beneficial but currently its not so I want Australia out of the Commonwealth.

Do you believe that every single Chechen is better off (including those who have disappeared, opposition politicians who are now banned, those who have been tortured, the families of the disappeared, etc)? If not then you must stand against the occupation by your own statement.

Good question. If the war ends and the drug lords are brought to justice then yes, all the Chechnyan people would be better off. I dont know how many people have ‘disappeared’ or ‘tortured’, as far as I can determine, that could be propaganda peddled by pro-independence propagandists.

You use made up words with definitions contrary to the meanings of their base words while providing no definitions until pressed, and then you say I fail to cite sources? You're a [censored], dude.

And moderators, that's a legitimate statement as part of my debate, not an insult. I would like to make it my platform that Snake Logan is in fact a large [censored]. I am prepared to cite my source (his mom) to back this up and use various logical arguments and posts as evidence.

You [censored] [censored]. I [censored] your [censored] when [censored] [censored] [censored] then I [censored] [censored] before I [censored] your [censored]. Don’t [censored] [censored] my [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored][censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] you [censored].

This post has been edited by Slade: 10 February 2008 - 03:19 PM
Reason for edit:: Spammy clutter of the text "[censored]". I deleted about 100 copies of the phrase. Please behave, children.

[J m HofMarN]

That genocide was brought about them? Well, if you count communist genocides then that is every single fucking people in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and South East Asia. If you count genocide committed by a foreign country then that basically includes all of South America and all of Sub Sahara Africa. That’s a lot of wars with a lot of people dead.

Ummm... Snake... just about all of those nations in the areas you mentioned DID have wars and DID gain their independence. You're not helping yourself much.

I was talking about areas in a nation with large ethnic areas that don’t want to be ruled by that nation and want to ‘return’ to the mother country.

No you were quite clearly not. But since you're talking about them now I suppose I'll go to it. Chechnya does not fit that category and I think that several wars and a complete genocide of the Chechen people is a good grounds for secession as well as the human rights abuses and electoral misconduct that you continue to deny simply because it is problematic for your lunatic assertion that all of chechnya's people are now better off.

Except war is against international law in the first place. So even if you do somehow manage to take over Australia, however doubtful that is, you still have to somehow justify your illegal war and occupation of my country. You wont be able to.

Ah but Chechnya was under a state of war. International law however didnt protect them, so they had to ask for help from Russia, help that eventually turned into the annexation of their country. And I dont care if my occupation would be legal or not. I'm asking if it would be accepted by you as long as every citizen got their punch and pie, I'm asking if you would live under occupations as you think Chechens should and the answer is appearign to be no regardless of how you wiggle away from the point.

Indeed.

Quite.

Ah well youre a good citizen then since that means you'll never turn on your country. But now theres a tiny little problem. You see I seem to have reversed the argument. You originally said that if a country (chechnya) was better off under occupation it should submit. I then asked if you would do the same and through some cajoling and the implication that you were a prospective traitor, I got you to make this statement, which basically guarantees that you would never accept foreign occupation of your nation.

Unless it was beneficial to all my people. Fuck, how can you not understand this? I would prefer to live under the Commonwealth banner if it was beneficial but currently its not so I want Australia out of the Commonwealth.

I assume, since there is no context whatever to indicate what in gods holy name you're on about, that you speak of the commonwealth of independent states, the group of former British colonies still on good terms with HMs government. My question is why? No, we are discussing Chechnya and using Australia as an example as an occupation thereof would effect you. I'm not going to allow this to turn into a debate about the commonwealth. But theoretically speaking, assuming most Australians did want to withdraw from the commonwealth, wouldnt that be wrong to deny your sovereign her right to rule over you? I think Elizabeth The Second would be most disappointed with your attitude. If you don't care, then why do you care about how Putin feels about Chechnya's push for independence? Explain without bitching about the commonwealth. I assure you I dont care.

Do you believe that every single Chechen is better off (including those who have disappeared, opposition politicians who are now banned, those who have been tortured, the families of the disappeared, etc)? If not then you must stand against the occupation by your own statement.

Good question. If the war ends and the drug lords are brought to justice then yes, all the Chechnyan people would be better off. I dont know how many people have ‘disappeared’ or ‘tortured’, as far as I can determine, that could be propaganda peddled by pro-independence propagandists.

Hold on... Ignoring your completely baseless dismissal of independently verified and globally reported human rights abuses and crimes against humanity (Amnesty international are just propaghandists [who peddle propaghanda!!!]) You are seriously asserting that after a war and the almost total destruction of their capital city, that all the Chechnyan [sic] people are better off? I know (because you say so) that none were tortured, disappeared or barred from holding office, but then I must ask, what about those killed in the Russian invasion? Oh, I'm sure you have an answer for that as well, let me see, I expect it will sound like this:

"Any talk of civilians dying in Russia's invasion of chechnya is propaganda peddled by pro independence propagandists."

Very well then, I suppose in the Chechnya in your world the people really are better off. I'm sure the streets are pathed with cheese and there are no cats to eat the cute little mice. Oh wait, you're probably watching the heart warming family film An American Tail which tells the story of a plucky young mouse's journey to America. That would explain the lack of genocide, torture and civilian casualties. The news is two channels up.

Censored nonsense:

That's nice, now you see, this is part of the reason why I believe that you are a [censored] The dictionary defines dick many ways, most notably as the human sexual organ. However, and most poignantly to my argument, it can also be understood to mean:

A: A slang term synonomous with asshole
B: as a verb can be used to mean cheating, screwing.

So if we take meaning B we can say that you are dicking people out of their time by putting up arguments regarding the Shawnee indians love for communism, and of course dicking slade out of his time by pasting pages of the same word. You have dicked, and it is common that one who takes an action can be equated with that action, or simply called by that actions subjective form. For instance, one who makes shoes is a shoe maker, and a chimney sweep is one who sweeps chimneys. The subjective or noun form of dick is the same as the verb so we must assume that gramtically you are a [censored]

Also, though I have not seen any photographic evidence, I picture you to be dick shaped.

Tata for now.

Oh, dont bother switching channels. Wrestling is on next and the news from reality has a well known liberal bias.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 11 February 2008 - 02:42 AM

[Cobnat]

And I would rather have drug lords and gang leaders from my own country running around then invaders from another country.

Cobnat- To illustrate how ridiculous that statement is, I will invite my friend Mohamed.

Mohamed- Hello!

Drug Lord- I am in charge here! I have thrown out the Allahless Ruski dogs and now I will turn your son into my minion and your daughter into my harlot!

Mohamed- But…

<<the Drug Lord hits Mohamed with the butt of his Kalashnikov>>

Drug Lord- Shut up you filthy peasant! I am in charge! This is the thanks I get for using civilians as human shields!? This is the thanks I get for killing Ruski children!? This is the thanks I get for slaughtering Ruski civilians and getting the Ruski military to intervene here in the first place!? Just for your insolence, I will burn your crops and take your wife as well!

Cobnat- For the record, foreign occupation is when one person imposes their will on someone else, IMO.

[Snake Logan]

No you were quite clearly not. But since you're talking about them now I suppose I'll go to it. Chechnya does not fit that category and I think that several wars and a complete genocide of the Chechen people is a good grounds for secession as well as the human rights abuses and electoral misconduct that you continue to deny simply because it is problematic for your lunatic assertion that all of chechnya's people are now better off.

At the moment they are not. There is a war there after all. Will they be better off under a democratic Russian regime then under a despotic junta? I think so.

Quite.

Supposedly.

Ah but Chechnya was under a state of war. International law however didnt protect them, so they had to ask for help from Russia, help that eventually turned into the annexation of their country. And I dont care if my occupation would be legal or not. I'm asking if it would be accepted by you as long as every citizen got their punch and pie, I'm asking if you would live under occupations as you think Chechens should and the answer is appearign to be no regardless of how you wiggle away from the point.

I assume, since there is no context whatever to indicate what in gods holy name you're on about, that you speak of the commonwealth of independent states, the group of former British colonies still on good terms with HMs government. My question is why? No, we are discussing Chechnya and using Australia as an example as an occupation thereof would effect you. I'm not going to allow this to turn into a debate about the commonwealth. But theoretically speaking, assuming most Australians did want to withdraw from the commonwealth, wouldnt that be wrong to deny your sovereign her right to rule over you? I think Elizabeth The Second would be most disappointed with your attitude. If you don't care, then why do you care about how Putin feels about Chechnya's push for independence? Explain without bitching about the commonwealth. I assure you I dont care.

Would I prefer to live under a democratic Russian regime or a junta regime made up of Australian drug lords? I think I will take the former if it is completely alright with you.

Hold on... Ignoring your completely baseless dismissal of independently verified and globally reported human rights abuses and crimes against humanity (Amnesty international are just propaghandists [who peddle propaghanda!!!]) You are seriously asserting that after a war and the almost total destruction of their capital city, that all the Chechnyan [sic] people are better off? I know (because you say so) that none were tortured, disappeared or barred from holding office, but then I must ask, what about those killed in the Russian invasion? Oh, I'm sure you have an answer for that as well, let me see, I expect it will sound like this:

"Any talk of civilians dying in Russia's invasion of chechnya is propaganda peddled by pro independence propagandists."

Very well then, I suppose in the Chechnya in your world the people really are better off. I'm sure the streets are pathed with cheese and there are no cats to eat the cute little mice. Oh wait, you're probably watching the heart warming family film An American Tail which tells the story of a plucky young mouse's journey to America. That would explain the lack of genocide, torture and civilian casualties. The news is two channels up.

Sources? You’re words by themselves carry no weight, if ‘everybody’ ‘knows’ about all these human rights abuses then you will no doubt provide me with a non-biased source.

[J m HofMarN]

At the moment they are not. There is a war there after all. Will they be better off under a democratic Russian regime then under a despotic junta? I think so.

So if they stop fighting and bow down like proper serfs, they'll be better off? Doesnt that work for any people who are at war... Oh wait, you called their previous democratic government a "despotic junta" and contrasted it with the wonderful Russian democracy (COUGH BULLSHIT COUGH)

Does the same go for Iraq? Vietnam?

Supposedly.

Indubitably.

Would I prefer to live under a democratic Russian regime or a junta regime made up of Australian drug lords? I think I will take the former if it is completely alright with you.

Yes the kind of democratic regime that bars anyone who questions it from participating in government. So all I have to do to take over Australia is have some guys vote me king of australia and hten call your PM a drug lord, as well as the aforementioned punch and pie for all.

Sources? You’re words by themselves carry no weight, if ‘everybody’ ‘knows’ about all these human rights abuses then you will no doubt provide me with a non-biased source.

I mentioned a source in my post. If you cant go to AIs website and look up what is fairly obvious (that Russia has comitted war crimes during a war and occupation) then I'm not going to do your work for you. Do you have any sources that prove Russia has a squeaky clean human rights record in Chechnya? Have you cited any sources at all about the issue? And your denial of ANY human rights abuses is ludicrous. An occupation of this size and the fact that the war has already been fought mean things are pretty tense. In every war there will be war crimes, just like in every society there are regular crimes. So the burden of proof lies with you being as your assumption is the more fantastic one.

[Snake Logan]

So if they stop fighting and bow down like proper serfs, they'll be better off? Doesnt that work for any people who are at war... Oh wait, you called their previous democratic government a "despotic junta" and contrasted it with the wonderful Russian democracy (COUGH BULLSHIT COUGH)

Yes the kind of democratic regime that bars anyone who questions it from participating in government. So all I have to do to take over Australia is have some guys vote me king of australia and hten call your PM a drug lord, as well as the aforementioned punch and pie for all.

I am just going to quote Cobnat.

Cobnat- To illustrate how ridiculous that statement is, I will invite my friend Mohamed.

Mohamed- Hello!

Drug Lord- I am in charge here! I have thrown out the Allahless Ruski dogs and now I will turn your son into my minion and your daughter into my harlot!

Mohamed- But…

<<the Drug Lord hits Mohamed with the butt of his Kalashnikov>>

Drug Lord- Shut up you filthy peasant! I am in charge! This is the thanks I get for using civilians as human shields!? This is the thanks I get for killing Ruski children!? This is the thanks I get for slaughtering Ruski civilians and getting the Ruski military to intervene here in the first place!? Just for your insolence, I will burn your crops and take your wife as well!

Cobnat- For the record, foreign occupation is when one person imposes their will on someone else, IMO.

Does the same go for Iraq? Vietnam?

Are you saying that the NVA and VC were drug lords?

Indubitably.

Infinitely.

I mentioned a source in my post. If you cant go to AIs website and look up what is fairly obvious (that Russia has comitted war crimes during a war and occupation) then I'm not going to do your work for you. Do you have any sources that prove Russia has a squeaky clean human rights record in Chechnya? Have you cited any sources at all about the issue? And your denial of ANY human rights abuses is ludicrous. An occupation of this size and the fact that the war has already been fought mean things are pretty tense. In every war there will be war crimes, just like in every society there are regular crimes. So the burden of proof lies with you being as your assumption is the more fantastic one.

If war crimes are a justification for independence then are they also a justification for occupation? Chechnyans, if represented by the drug lords, have no moral high ground in the war with Russia.

[J m HofMarN]

Cobnat: RE: "OMG DRUGLORDS ARE TEH EVILZ"

Wow thats super. I can really picture the drug lord there twirling his handlebar moustache while he has the peasant tied to a train track. I shouldnt even reply to such an insane and outright attempt to villify one group while ignoring the crimes of another, but I may as well since I've been rebutting absurdity for several pages now.

First of all I dont think drug lords spend all their time quoting supervillain speeches from the movies. They're probably a little bit busy trafficing and selling drugs, cuz thats what drug lords do and all. Also, just what kind of drugs are grown in Chechnya that they lord over anyhow? And finally even if your lunatic scenario does have any basis in reality, it isn't foreign occupation. It's crime. A dozen guys will die in the US today in gun violence by other people who "occupy" their bodies with "foreign" bullets, but I'm not about to call for Canada to do the Blitz over the St. Laurence to protect me from what, as you claim, is tantamount to foreign occupation.

Are you saying that the NVA and VC were drug lords?

You yourself said that Muslim regimes were Islamic Fascist and you compared the VC and NVA to the Nazis. So I ask again, would they be better off bowing down to the wonderful democratic US?

If war crimes are a justification for independence then are they also a justification for occupation? Chechnyans, if represented by the drug lords, have no moral high ground in the war with Russia.

Yeah, yeah they do. You see Snake, when people go out and kill other people, and those people are not linked to the government or police, it's not a war crime and it wont be blamed on the country as a whole. Whatever the alleged drug lords are doing is their own thing and has/had little to do with the democratically elected government of Chechnya. When the Russians commit war crimes it follows a chain of command and is done by army and intelligence forces under the employ of their wonderful democracy (teehee).

A government that is too weak from Russian assaults to police itself

>

A government that orders its personnel to commit war crimes.

And by the way, have you admitted that the Russians comitted war crimes yet or are you still watching the disney channel version of the war?

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 11 February 2008 - 01:37 PM