[Spoon Poetic]

Civ, this is the debate club. Please, do debate. Else there's no reason for this being here. And I want some debating

So I state again... Hospital visitation, different taxes, power of attorney, etc. are not rights but privileges! *poke* :-P

[Icey]

I think I will start preparing the unions, I hear this Obama fellow is a socialist! The outcome of the election wasn't even a surprise in this household, except that I thought McCain would get at least one more state. Guess I was proven incorrect on that point, but everything else in Cali, spot on. Animals need more rights while gay people need less and all that jazz.

To be fair, the majority of exported convicts were arresting for stealing bread and such.

Or invading Iceland. Just saying.

[Deucaon]

Or invading Iceland. Just saying.

Yeah but that's not really a crime.

[Gobbler]

It does put your sanity to question though.

[J m HofMarN]

Any Civ shit brought into a discussion is the right shit to bring, and that's my final word on that.

Also, all of your friends up there will be amazed that you survived the West coast without being murderrapejacked. Did you bring an assault rifle?

As for the election, Palin supported a nation wide ban on same sex marriage, a constitutional ammendment that would for only the second time, strip rights away. McCain would have died, Palin would have gotten the spot, and the Republicans would have gained sympathy votes in the legislature, and California would be nation wide. Also, that nonsense decision is already being appealed. And it's somewhat telling that, in a state with, maybe, what, ten percent gay population, that almost 50 percent of the electorate voted for gay rights. That says a lot of positive stuff right there.

Deuacon: I think a self evident truth is self evident, and therefore does not need to rely on faith for its power. An athiest can look at the stuff and see that it makes sense, and a Christian sees the same thing first before thinking about maybe thats how god wants it too.

A country can be a majority Christian nation or one under God, without being a theocracy, or establishing an official state religion (or, more accurate to their ideas, an official state sect of Christianity. This was absolutely necessary to the survival of the US. Imagine a battle between Catholics and Protestants eruptig so soon after independence.

Spoon- Try to tell a straight person that marriage and its benefits are a priveledge and not a right. ( Fun fact, we already tried this with interracial, or, as they said then, myseginated, couples) It wasnt too long ago that our President's parents would have not had the legal rights of marriage. Equality is a right. To offer financial and social and emotional protections to one group without offering it to another based upon , (this does not address you, but fifty one percent of california) bigotry and nothing else, is to deny equality, which is protected under the constitution.

[Dr Lecter]

Invading Iceland is a privilege, not a right!

[Spoon Poetic]

I never said equality is not a right or that some people should get the privileges of marriages and others shouldn't. Please do not put words in my mouth.

I said these things that you get with marriage are privileges whether you are gay or straight. Personally I don't think it is a "basic human right" to get different taxes than everyone else, power of attorney, blah blah. I never said give them to some people and deny them from others, I just think arguing that these things are "rights" is a bit of stretching. The things you get when you marry someone are privileges, perks.

Besides - if they were "rights" then why is it okay to deny these rights to nonmarried people, period? No matter what race or sexuality? Isn't it discrimination against people who don't want to marry but want to have those "rights?" What if I want to have that kind of partnership with my brother or something - not because I want to marry my brother, but because I'm asexual, never want to marry, but want those benefits to go to someone I trust (power of attorney when I'm in a coma or something, etc).

Personally I think these perks should be given to anyone who wants them, and they can pick whomever they want. Of course it would be a binding contractual thing just like a marriage - something that you 'd have to go through a court process (like a divorce) in order to break. But I don't think that only married people should have these benefits (which are not human rights).

This post has been edited by Spoon Poetic: 06 November 2008 - 09:39 AM

[Icey]

Invading Iceland is a privilege, not a right!

So is stealing all the attractive women in England, mate.

[Gobbler]

The what now?

[Dr Lecter]

So is stealing all the attractive women in England, mate.

Psh, I'd descended from Vikings, my ancestors were probably involved with most of that stealing.

[princesskadee]

Im happy Obama won. Thats it, just happy.

I think too many people went overboard with celebration about him winning...and im not really referring to the african american populous (who have obvious reasons to be jubiliant)

The reason why Obama largely won, is cause the media was quick to embrace him. At one point, He was on the front cover of at least 10 different magazines simoultaneously..in shallow comparison to McCain who barely graced few front covers.

McCain really didnt seem to get the issues facing voters., and that cost him his bid for presidency. The guys a war vet, thats about all he can tout.

Palin just looks too ditzy to me to be taken seriously in office. She just has this ditzy look on her face like shes becoming a teenage klutz all over again.

People are crediting Obama waaay too soon. The guy barely won. Let him introduce a few measures, bills, plans, ideas...wait til Jan 20th at least, or really until he gives his first state of the union address. People are being so quick to praise him, and all he has done is talked...he hasnt taking any affirmative action on anything,...he hasnt even moved into the white house yet.

[Gobbler]

Those aren't really considered the important things right now.

For now, it's just great to see a clear sign against the previous eight years of upfuckery and the election of someone who's more famous for his inspiring speeches and visions, instead of yet another gunlobbyist who thinks God put him there to start fights and what not.

Barry-O's just one man to channel the will of the people. At least, that's what this kind of democracy should be about, right? I think people are crediting themselves as much as him right now, and I can't think ill of them for doing that.

And hey, a little motivation never hurt. It's not like he can just flick his fingers and say "America got out of recession!", but he can try making it easier to maintain the spirit that will enable folks to work their way there together. There are 300 million Americans, if you set them up for a nice little parade, chances are that it might actually lead somewhere.

[Deucaon]

So is stealing all the attractive women in England, mate.

Attractive women... in England!?!?

Surely you jest.

Also, read.

[Spoon Poetic]

People are crediting Obama waaay too soon. The guy barely won. Let him introduce a few measures, bills, plans, ideas...wait til Jan 20th at least, or really until he gives his first state of the union address. People are being so quick to praise him, and all he has done is talked...he hasnt taking any affirmative action on anything,...he hasnt even moved into the white house yet.

HEAR, HEAR!!!

[Deucaon]

No point of having a "good" leader if the political structure/system is rotten. Reform doesn't help either... it has to be rebuilt from scratch otherwise the old structure/system eats up the "good" leader and his reforms. Call me a pessimist but I think Obama will be another Clinton which means higher taxes and more wars than under Bush.