[Otal Nimrodi]

ALTHOUGH, this could be the first year an independent takes in a lot of votes.

1912.

Bull Moose party.

Most successful independent run in history.

This post has been edited by Otal Nimrodi: 24 June 2008 - 11:21 PM

[civilian_number_two]

The official line is that a handful of guys who obtained Americans visas were able to control and pilot 3 planes into 3 buildings and unable to control the last one. What exactly is hard to believe about that?

Nothing. The hard part is that one of them left behind a Rosetta Stone so that the FBI gave the US Congress full license to greenlight non-stop military invasions in the Middle East. Apparently there was enough in that bag to convince the world that there was an international terrorist conspiracy and that its primary goal was to destroy American Freedom. And it was being run out of AfghanistanIraqIran.

The images of the plane hit on the Pentagon, like the one you linked, just never show a plane. I have seen downed planes before, and they pretty much always leave debris. I know these things are full of gas, but just how hot does it burn? Can it evaporate an entire plane and leave the cars nearby just a little scorched?

I am not saying that no plane hit the Pentagon. Something did, maybe a plane. But the photos just never show it. Too much is classified. It's really odd.

Anyway, that's one great building. Huge. Folks working on the other side of it didn't even know it had been hit. It was on fire for two days with people working in it. If I had to work in a building that was gonna be attacked by terrorists, I'd pick the Pentagon. That or the UN General Assembly. It'd be cool to work in New York.

[Deucaon]

Nothing. The hard part is that one of them left behind a Rosetta Stone so that the FBI gave the US Congress full license to greenlight non-stop military invasions in the Middle East. Apparently there was enough in that bag to convince the world that there was an international terrorist conspiracy and that its primary goal was to destroy American Freedom. And it was being run out of AfghanistanIraqIran.

Actually I would say that the WTC attacks gave a "full license to greenlight non-stop military invasions in the Middle East." Compared to the WTC attacks the Pentagon attack would have been pointless. It makes no sense to commit the Pentagon attack after you have successfully committed the WTC attacks unless you are stating that the US government just happened to plan the Pentagon attack on the same day Osama planned the WTC attacks?

And the US didn't have problems invading countries before the 9/11 attacks so the idea that the 9/11 attacks were a casus belli is just giving American propagandists more credit then they deserve.

The images of the plane hit on the Pentagon, like the one you linked, just never show a plane. I have seen downed planes before, and they pretty much always leave debris. I know these things are full of gas, but just how hot does it burn? Can it evaporate an entire plane and leave the cars nearby just a little scorched?

I am not saying that no plane hit the Pentagon. Something did, maybe a plane. But the photos just never show it. Too much is classified. It's really odd.

Anyway, that's one great building. Huge. Folks working on the other side of it didn't even know it had been hit. It was on fire for two days with people working in it. If I had to work in a building that was gonna be attacked by terrorists, I'd pick the Pentagon. That or the UN General Assembly. It'd be cool to work in New York.

Well perhaps there are no pictures of the plane crashing into the Pentagon because unlike the WTC, there aren't hundreds of people with cameras walking around. We are talking about a top secret area of the US that was hit.

[civilian_number_two]

Exactly. Well, not exactly, because it's also an office building with a city's worth of people working in it, but agreed. We have almost nothing on it. It was easier to keep reporters away, which worked against credibility while possibly doing something for national security (though exactly what I am not sure).

The WTC thing alone is awesome, but IIRC it was the Pentagon that had folks talking about the event being "highly coordinated." Flight 93 was the Dolittle run to WTC's Pearl Harbour, and the propaganda gave Congress the green light to the yadda yadda. I don;t think it's as easy to get a full-scale government-toppling invasion as you might think. I remember a lot of arguing.

Anyway, chances are good it happened just like they say, but I really doubt they actually know who did any of it. The evidence is just too fortuitous to be true. Highly coordinated and also big dopes who leave "dear diary" evidence lying around? Hmm.

[Supes]

1 plane crashed because the passengers revolted but if it hadn't then it would have probably followed the fate of the other 3.

Civ#2 is right to be sceptical of the Flight 93 story. As much as it is a fabulous story to think that the passengers revolted and did their best to take back the plane from their highjackers it's is merely a story. The truth sits with a number of people who were involved in a terrible situation and had to make terrible decisions one behalf of the people of their nation. Despite my vast distance from this tragedy I have met people involved in this and it is probably better that the movie stays as the truth as you see it.

It does not take a great deal to be able to handle a plane, even a large plane, once it is off the ground. The scary part is that flight simulators and the like are extremely useful mechanisms to learn. But it is highly doubtful that this is all the pilots had. I have some good friends who are both comercial piots and also have been military fighter pilots. I'm inclined to bow to their wisdom in this matter as I am not a pilot myself. But if they tell me it can be done then I'm going to take their opinion as fact until proven incorrect.

Some of these guys are not the sharpest tools in the shed, but they know their stuff when it comes to aeronautical engineering and the military pilots have reflexes off the charts! There are differing levels of rating for pilots. One of the reasons sighted for JFK Jr's death was because he was not instrument rated and flew into bad conditions. On a clear day the instrument rating is less of an issue.

[Spoon Poetic]

http://www.peteyandp...re/VoteHere.htm

Sums up a good deal of how I feel about all this mess.

[Deucaon]

I once used a flight simulator and it only took me 2 tries to finally understand how the plane works but I only had another 4 because I kept crashing my plane into the Tokyo Tower... and not by accident. They should make a jumbo jet harder to fly by adding more switches or something. Either that or teach pilots not to open the cabin door when there are a group of angry Arab men on the other side. Its called a lock, people.

[J m HofMarN]

They should make a jumbo jet harder to fly by adding more switches or something.

Brilliant. The more confusing and difficult it is to fly a large plane, the safer everyone will be!

[Otal Nimrodi]

I can see the logic. The harder it is for someone to learn to fly, the harder it is for them to hijack the plane.

That said, it would also be harder for an experienced pilot to fly the plane. Which would lead to more crashes. And harder for pilots to learn and operate, meaning that you'd have to pay them more. Meaning ticket prices go up.

[Deucaon]

I can see the logic. The harder it is for someone to learn to fly, the harder it is for them to hijack the plane.

That said, it would also be harder for an experienced pilot to fly the plane. Which would lead to more crashes. And harder for pilots to learn and operate, meaning that you'd have to pay them more. Meaning ticket prices go up.

Only people who can afford to catch a plane will be effected... which is not a lot.

OH! I just got a FABULOUS idea! Instead of making things more complex there should be unique input code for the autopilot and no one other then the official pilots should know them. I figured this would be better then separating the cockpit and the rest of the plane because if the hijackers somehow get into the cockpit then they will be safe to carry out their devilish schemes.

Of course, if Dr Strangelove has taught us anything then its that there is no failsafe failsafe.

[reiner]

It wouldn't even matter if they made plane controls more difficult. We still commute in planes designed like 20+ years ago.

[J m HofMarN]

So, howabout them elections?

[Otal Nimrodi]

Yeeeup.

So, how about that Sarah Palin?

[Slade]

She's sketchy and inexperienced at best (no, being elected in a state close to an international boarder does not give you foreign policy/affairs experience), and a corrupt, lying pig of a politician at worst (spend about ten minutes looking into her record as an elected official and especially note her refusal to cooperate on investigations pending concerning her abusing her executive powers despite supposedly being some sort of political maverick due to turning in another corrupt politician.)

Oh yeah. She's also hired people to win her earmarks in DC, which is funny since that's one of the practices McCain is supposedly against. I say supposed, of course, since he spends so much time lying about what his plans as President will do and lying about his opponent's plans that I can't tell what he really will do.

Overall, I think we're in for some big changes either way, soon. Someone needs to pick up the eight year long train wreck the current administration has turned the nation into, from foreign affairs and international respect to the economy and civil rights. Who knows if either candidate can repair everything that's gone so horribly wrong?

[reiner]

Shock tactic on the McCain campaign's part. Nothing more. Bad choice for VP.

Don't like her, don't trust her.

Anyway, VPs don't do dick, so her involvement doesn't sway my vote.