[Spoon Poetic]

Romney's both homophobic and wants to increase the number of troops and money flowing into the middle east to "vanquish the Muslim threat" (quote from his campaign website before it got edited shortly after announcing his candidacy). I'd liken him to Hitler before Huckabee. But honestly I wouldn't use the name for anyone. It's kinda uncreative as well as hugely hyperbolic. But to each his own.

This post has been edited by Spoon Poetic: 02 February 2008 - 10:24 PM

[Simperin' Fool]

Ah. You learn something new every day.

Meh. My reasoning behind it is this: I dislike both uber Conservatives and uber Liberals because I'm a libertarian and both sides want to create their own form of a dictatorship. On this extreme end of the spectrum, fascism; on the other, communism. Thus, Hitler and Stalin!

This post has been edited by Simperin' Fool: 02 February 2008 - 11:10 PM

[Snake Logan]

I can respect that. I have a friend who is a libertarian and although, when it comes to internal policies, we don’t see eye to eye on anything, we do agree on external policies. I just want to remind you that America, a democracy, has invaded more countries in the past 20 years then any other country on the planet and caused the deaths of millions. So as far as I am concerned, its all the same.

This post has been edited by Snake Logan: 02 February 2008 - 11:38 PM

[Simperin' Fool]

So as far as I am concerned, its all the same.

Yes. Ever heard the phrase "throwing out the rascals"?

[Snake Logan]

No. What does it mean?

[Simperin' Fool]

Essentially, both sides are really in cahoots and maintain the illusion of being bitter enemies even though they represent the same basic goal. You have two parties, one to take the rap for all our problems and the other to step in as the savior when election time rolls around. This system was explained in a book by... Aldous Huxley, I believe.

I lack the knowledge myself to explain it fully, but let's just say that I've recently met a fellow with the most fascinating theories. And what's more, he can support them with reams and reams of quotes from books and documents written by people like David Rockefeller, Al Gore, Micheal Gorbachev, some other powerful people I don't remember the names of... and the U.N. Fun stuff.

Here's a sampling of quotes that deal with public education:

"In our dream...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way."
- John D. Rockefeller’s General Education Board, Occasional Letter Number One (1906)


"This subject [mass psychology] will make great strides when it is taken up by scientists under a scientific dictatorship. Anaxagoras maintained that snow is black, but no one believed him. The social psychologists of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black. Various results will soon be arrived at. First, that the influence of home is obstructive. Second, that not much can be done unless indoctrination begins before the age of ten. Third, that verses set to music and repeatedly intoned are very effective. Fourth, that the opinion that snow is white must be held to show a morbid taste for eccentricity... It is for future scientists to make these maxims precise and discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black, and how much less it would cost to make them believe it is dark grey. Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for a generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen. As yet there is only one country which has succeeded in creating this politician's paradise." [my emphasis]
- Bertrand Russel, The Impact of Science on Society (1952), pp. 41


"Every teacher should realize he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of the proper social order and the securing of the right social growth. In this way the teacher is always the prophet of the true God and the usherer in of the true kingdom of heaven."
- John Dewey, the "father of modern education", Pedagogic Creed (1897)


"That erroneous assumption is to the effort that the aim of public education is to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence....Nothing could be further from the truth. The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States, whatever the pretensions of politicians, pedagogues, and other such mountebanks, and that is its aim everywhere else."
- H.L Mencken, The American Mercury (1924)


"Take at hazard one hundred children of several educated generations and one hundred uneducated children of the people and compare them in anything you please; in strength, in agility, in mind, in the ability to acquire knowledge, even in morality—and in all respects you are startled by the vast superiority on the side of the children of the uneducated."
- Count Leo Tolstoy, Education and Children (1862)


"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forgo the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."
- Woodrow Wilson, 1909


"The ideology that lies behind these texts [school textbooks] is rather difficult to define.... it does not fit usual political patterns....the texts never indicate any line of action....authors avoid what they choose to and some of them avoid main issues....they fail to develop any original ideas....they confuse social sciences with science....clouds of jargon....leave out ideas....historical names are given no character, they are cipher people....there are no conflicts, only 'problems'."
- Frances Fitzgerald, America Revised


Senator Chamberlain (Oregon):
"They are moving with military precision all along the line to get control of the education of the children of the land."

Senator Poindexter (Washington):
"The cult of Rockefeller, the cult of Carnegie...as much to be guarded against in the educational system of this country as a particular religious sect."

Senator Kenyon (Iowa):
"There are certain colleges that have sought endowments, and the agent of the Rockefeller Foundation or the General Education Board had gone out and examined the curriculum of these colleges and compelled certain changes....It seems to me one of the most dangerous things that can go on in a republic is to have an institution of this power apparently trying to shape and mold the thought of the young people of this country."

Senator Works (California):
"These people ... are attempting to get control of the whole educational work of the country."
- Congressional Record of January 26, 1917"


I'm no conspiracist, but...

This post has been edited by Simperin' Fool: 03 February 2008 - 12:42 AM

[Jordan]

I see eye to eye with you, simperin fool. Conspiracy nuts come in all shapes and sizes and not all of them are totally wrong.

You should go to my federal reserve thread in the debate room, and check out some of the video's I posted.

You're totally right about both sides being in on it.

[Simperin' Fool]

I am?

Neat.

[Snake Logan]

What Leo Tolstoy and Woodrow Wilson had to say about education was interesting. The one who controls the present, controls the past. The one who controls the past, controls the future. As I look back, I wonder how many of my history lessons were liberalized and how much of then were based on factual evidence. What is the goal of having a liberalized education?

This post has been edited by Snake Logan: 03 February 2008 - 10:34 AM

[Slade]

I don't even know what "liberalized" means. Apparently Wilson believed a liberal education was a higher one that involved skilled labor, sciences, math, philosophy, etc. As that's the only real opposite of an education that allows for only manual labor. Which means that Mr. Logan is grossly misusing the term by putting it in opposition to an education involving facts.

And I'm more than a bit sad that nobody's quoted George Orwell yet.

[Simperin' Fool]

And I'm more than a bit sad that nobody's quoted George Orwell yet.

I was distracted by the Two Minutes' Hate.

[Snake Logan]

I don't even know what "liberalized" means. Apparently Wilson believed a liberal education was a higher one that involved skilled labor, sciences, math, philosophy, etc. As that's the only real opposite of an education that allows for only manual labor. Which means that Mr. Logan is grossly misusing the term by putting it in opposition to an education involving facts.

When I say liberalized, I mean that the teaching of history is up to a single teacher‘s interpretation. In my opinion, every school should setup a committee for all History/English/Sociology teachers so they can agree on a common interpretation of historical events and historical figures.

And I'm more than a bit sad that nobody's quoted George Orwell yet.

The one who controls the present, controls the past. The one who controls the past, controls the future.

[J m HofMarN]

Slade- Actually Snake already did with the who controls the present deal. Thats vintage Orwell, as well as Rage Against the Machine.

[Slade]

Oh. That's right. My most humble apologies to Mr. Logan. A dreadful oversight on my part. But you're still using liberal in the wrong context, given all of the quotations S. Fool posted. However, I do understand what you mean to say, so hurrah. It would be nice if teachers could just go by history books, which were required to be accurate and unbiased.

And that Orwell quotation is also used by Kane in the Command and Conquer series. Yesterday was a sad, sad day for my memory.

[Jordan]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the end, this is the end of dog racing.

http://www.cnn.com/2...rics/index.html