[not this crude matter]

Yeah azerty thats what I feel most people are saying around here. As for me...give me a lot of Hayden(in good acting mode), a lot of palps and Obi-Wan to. Cut back on Padme and make yoda fight somewhat cool looking instead of flipping around attacking an outstretched lightsaber blade. Make all the lightsaber duels cool and well coreographed and forget the style that was in AOTC. Make the "duel" emotional and rugged, dont make this a gentlemens duel! This has to be a all out trying as hard as possible to kill the other guy duel for this to work. Coreography won't save it in the end. Emotions, whether the setting looks good and if they can make a 12 min lightsaber duel seem to go by in 3 mins without you realizing it would make this duel rock. But I think Im just setting myself up to be letdown.

[not this crude matter]

Here will be the review of ROTS after GG has been added into it.

"The Greatest Achievement of Man"

Hollywood, May 19, 2005 - In what scientists, world leaders and academics are calling, 'possibly the greatest achievement of man,' and 'really pretty awesome,' George Lucas topped all box office records with the release of the third film in the Star Wars saga. "Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith" is an expansive epic that chronicles the demise of Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christenson) and the rise to power of evil 'Sith' mastermind Jar-Jar Binks (Ahmed Best). According to Star Wars creator and fat rich bastard George Lucas, "the revelation that Jar-Jar is behind it all is the real shocker -- the fans sure weren't expecting that!" Added Lucas, "I really see the prequels as Jar-Jar's story. Sure, Anakin gets the most screen time, but it's really the story of the evil downfall -- and pratfalls! -- of an ordinary annoying CGI alien Sith mastermind -- a story that anyone can identify with." Lucas believes that the universal appeal of the Star Wars mythology, plus Revenge of the Sith's wide use of explicit, hardcore sex is responsible for the film's sucess at the box office.

The Pope is reported to have called the film, "better than God." Lucas cohort Rick McCallum is widely expected to win the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Supes]

Dooku was given the curved handled lightsaber at the request of the actor Christopher Lee I believe. He is a trained fencer and theatrical fighter and the sabre handle was made to allow him to utilize his fencing skills during the fight sequences. From a practical point of view it makes sense.

Never heard this before. What's your source?

I can't remember the exact documentary, but it was one of the designers discussing Lee's training and that they had specifically crafted the handle to compliment his fencing capabilities. Should have been clearer in my details, but I just cannot remeber who it was being interviewed. I agree that the actual delivery did not display said fencing as such, which did leave me a little confused. It could well be that the info presented was not altogether accurate, as we've seen the documentaires often alter what was the original intent, so I'm happy to stand corrected on this one.

[/i]
Trained threatrical fighter

Not a fan of that term these days and I have to be careful around my theatre friends. They work hard on it, but a good place to learn theatrical fencing is from fencing. Just my beef I guess.

I'm more than happy to use this term in relation to Lee. He is a trained fencer and has also be trained in the classical stage fighting techniques (as in hand to hand combat, not swordplay) that were so prevelant throughout the era in which he made many of his films.

[Supes]

Yeah azerty thats what I feel most people are saying around here. As for me...give me a lot of Hayden(in good acting mode), a lot of palps and Obi-Wan to. Cut back on Padme and make yoda fight somewhat cool looking instead of flipping around attacking an outstretched lightsaber blade. Make all the lightsaber duels cool and well coreographed and forget the style that was in AOTC. Make the "duel" emotional and rugged, dont make this a gentlemens duel! This has to be a all out trying as hard as possible to kill the other guy duel for this to work. Coreography won't save it in the end. Emotions, whether the setting looks good and if they can make a 12 min lightsaber duel seem to go by in 3 mins without you realizing it would make this duel rock. But I think Im just setting myself up to be letdown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually ntcm, these are the things that we have also been asking for. We wanted to see more of a good acting Hayden and Obi-Wan. We wanted to see the development of the relationship of these two characters. We wanted to see more of Padme, as her relationship developed with Anakin (not as the clothes rack she was). We wanted to see less of the CGI clean and shiny battles. We wanted emotion!!!! To add to your list we wanted to see more of Palpatine and how he developed his relationship with Anakin also.

This is why this forum exists, because we did not see those things that we not only wanted to see, but should have seen as they would have made much more engaging stories than what we have seen.

[Helena]

Welcome to the forum, not this crude matter. Don't worry, you won't get flamed here unless you really ask for it (use the force, I'm looking at you).

It's going to be difficult for this poor movie!

No new and unnecessary characters please.  And not too much Hayden either.  Don't want overdone space battles, or drawn out light saber fights also.  I'm not a big fan of Padme, really, so not too much of her.  But though I only want to know more about all those old characters that I know and love, don't show me a young Han Solo, or any other OT characters!  That would be really bad.

Would anything make anybody happy?...

Nice to see you completely misinterpreting everything we say as usual... All right, let me give some examples of Prequels that would make me happy.

• Show characters whom it makes sense to have in the PT - i.e. Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, Palpatine, Leia's mother, and perhaps Threepio and Artoo as well. Their relationships should be as described in the OT - Yoda trained Obi-Wan; Obi-Wan discovered and trained Anakin. There is absolutely no need to make out that Han Solo, Chewbacca, Boba Fett or anyone else had any prior connection with the Skywalkers - not only does this stretch suspension of disbelief way beyond any sensible limit, it also gives the impresssion that this is taking place in a small village rather than across a vast Galaxy.
• New characters are fine as long as they a) serve some purpose in the story and b) don't take the focus away from the main characters. Note that looking cool or providing inane attempts at 'comic relief' do not count as serving some purpose in the story.
• Likewise, lightsaber duels and space battles are perfectly acceptable as long as they have some purpose other than looking impressive. They should involve emotion and drama, rather than just being a special-effects fest.
• Anakin Skywalker should start off as an adult (ideally, played by someone other than Hayden Christensen). He should demonstrate the good qualities which Obi-Wan ascribes to him in the OT, and whilst a certain amount of arrogance and recklessness is acceptable, portraying him as an emotionally retarded whinging brat is not. His fall to the Dark Side should be gradual, realistic and understandable, leaving us able to sympathise with him as well as condemn him.
• Similarly, the love affair between Anakin and Padme (or whatever you want Leia's mother to be called) should come across as a grown-up realationship rather than an obsessive teenage crush. Rather than seeing less of Padme, we should see more - both in order to get a better idea of her character, and to help us understand why Anakin should fall in love with her.
• A political conspiracy is potentially a great idea, but it shouldn't be contingent on everyone except Palpatine coming across as a complete and utter moron. Whatever the problems with the Senate, it should at least appear as being vaguely capable of functioning in reality - i.e. not permitting fourteen-year-olds to serve as Senators, kicking out the Supreme Chancellor on the basis of one simple-majority vote, or allowing special-interest groups their own seats and armies. Forget the Trade Federation crap and start with the Seperatist crisis, but explain it - why do these systems want to secede from the Republic? Why is this such a dangerous and unacceptable idea? How exactly is Palpatine involved, and how does he manage to hide this from his colleagues and from the Jedi?

These are just a few fairly simple ideas, but I believe they are shared by most people here. They are in no way contradictory or unrealistic; a competent writer should be perfectly capable of handling all the suggestions I proposed, and they would have made an enormous difference to our enjoyment of the PT. The problem is not that our standards are unfairly high; it's that Lucas's are so low.

[J m HofMarN]

You know, one of the problems with introducing all these piddly crap characters is that they slowly eat away at the main characters screen time. Would anyone be willing to sacrifice a stupid fight scene with Boba Fett in order to explain the missing planet, the creation of the clone army 20 years in advance, or the clouding of the force, or to show Anakin's relationship with Palpatine? I know I would!

[azerty]

You're right, of course Helena, but this is all only in fun...

Episode 1 and 2 aren't going to go away. There is only episode 3 left to wait for now. And there is nothing now that Lucas can do to save it. We have to either follow the characters that have been introduced, or introduce new characters, or try and reintroduce original charters. None of the options are very interesting, because (except for Ewan M.), the new characters are terrible. However, seeing young Greedo in the outakes of episde 1 made me realize that I don't want that route either. New and pointless characters are irrelevant to the arc of the story, but on the other hand, they are the only things left that might, possibly, be remotely interesting. What else is there going to be to enjoy?

The only way really to have fun with these movies is to not think of them as being connected to Star wars. However, the fact that (except for the original) they are boringly episodic makes this difficult. Just imagine that you know what REALLY happened, and watch the show in a languid frame of mind. Allow the images to wash over you, and turn off your mind, ignoring a total lack of logic, internal consistancy, (and characters acting like dumbasses, in one case). Remeber what Yoda said to Luke when he went into the dark theatre - What's in there? Only what you take with you.

[Helena]

The only way really to have fun with these movies is to not think of them as being connected to Star wars.  However, the fact that  (except for the original) they are boringly episodic makes this difficult.  Just imagine that you know what REALLY happened, and watch the show in a languid frame of mind.  Allow the images to wash over you, and turn off your mind, ignoring a total lack of logic, internal consistancy, (and characters acting like dumbasses, in one case).

Well, unfortunately this is easier said than done, at least for me. I find it impossible to just 'switch off my brain' like that when I'm watching movies - and that goes for any movie, not just Star Wars. I know that many people find great action sequences and special effects to be all they need to enjoy a film, but I'm not one of these people - if a film concentrates on these things at the expense of plot, dialogue and characterization, I simply won't get any enjoyment out of watching it.

The only way I can imagine having fun with one of the prequels is to gather a group of like-minded friends and play some kind of drinking game while we watch it (I suggested some possible rules for such a game in a recent thread). Too bad we all live so far away from each other...

[azerty]

Plot, dialog, and characterization are of primary importance... and you still rank Empire as being worthy, despite all three facets being downright presposterous in that particular episode?

This post has been edited by azerty: 03 January 2005 - 03:48 PM

[Helena]

As you are perfectly well aware, none of us even remotely share your opinion on the subject of ESB. From what I remember of your 'Why ESB sucks' list, just about every item struck me as either plain wrong or nitpicking to an unbelievable degree (which, along with the fact that it would have taken forever, was why I didn't bother writing a critique of it). So much so, in fact, that I'm inclined to suspect the main reason you wrote that list was for the sake of pissing us off, rather than because you actually believed what you were saying - just like what you wrote earlier in this thread.

[azerty]

I am perfectly well aware... but since I wasted my time writing that list, somebody should waste time bashing me back! "Take your Jedi weapon and strike me down with it!"

Ignore the Solo Leia relationship, I'll admit those arguments were over the top, but I really am interested to hear your defenses. Not all of it was nitpicky you know.

Back to General Grievous and Obi wan getting killed by him. (and I hope Grievous does it yelling "Yippeee")

A.) It's never going to happen
B.) If it did, it would be as funny as Hell, because it would prove to the world that Lucas is as much of a tosser as we all know he is. Imagine the worldwide repercussions!!

ps. Please don't be pissed off, it is all only supposed to be amusing.

[Chefelf]

From what I remember of your 'Why ESB sucks' list, just about every item struck me as either plain wrong or nitpicking to an unbelievable degree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahhh, that brings back so many memories. I pass the torch to you, azerty.

[Helena]

Hee. Yes, Chefelf, I have to admit I thought some of your reasons were pretty nitpicky as well - but then again, many of them were not. And of course, it's always easier to overlook minor flaws if you're enjoying a movie as a whole, whereas a film you don't like will have you picking holes in it out of sheer boredom.

[Chefelf]

Quite true. One of the things that annoys me the most about the PT is that the multitude of flaws has caused me to go back over the OT and find flaws in the movies that I used to love.

I'd be lying if I said I could enjoy ESB as much now (after the PT) as I did before TPM was released. I watch it and I see little imperfections I would have otherwise overlooked as well as continuity errors with the PT.

I don't want to talk about this anymore.

[barend]

i haven't watched the OT in years