[Jordan]

One Language is the only way to go. It's just another fucking headache you want deal with? Fine.

Francophones exist in Quebec and practically nowhere else. French is as foreign to Western, centeral, northern and far eastern (sort of) Canada as it is to the average American.

We have everything in french across the country. Canned foods, packages on toys, instruction manuals etc.. But very few notice it or give a damn.

Quebec has already once tried to break away from Canada and there are people still pushing for it. The vote in 1995 was very close, 45% of the votes within Quebec were in favor of the sovereignty a la quebec movenment. The frenchy who championed the referendum attributed the loss to Anglophones within the province and older generation Francophones. There are laws now in Quebec were french signs must be bigger than english store signs etc..

but this country should not have an official or national language.

This is so fluffy, dude. There must be a standard for communication. You can't have a country with 300 million people and not have a set in stone language of choice.

Seriously, don't worry about offending spanish speakers. They came to this country knowing the laws and knowing what the national language was, the burden of learning and adapting, and holy fuck, immigrating into society is on their shoulders.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 04 October 2007 - 10:48 AM

[Jen]

This is so fluffy, dude. There must be a standard for communication. You can't have a country with 300 million people and not have a set in stone language of choice.

I couldn't disagree with you more -- in fact, I think the entire history of the United States proves that you absolutely can have a country with 300 million people and not have a stone language of choice. Throughout every wave of immigration in this country, there has never been an "official" language. But English has always been the language of commerce, business, culture and, by and large, conversation.

Philisophically, I clearly disagree with the anti-immigration sentiment that is really at the heart of English-only -- I have to, as an immigrant myself. But all philosophy aside, I would point out that "English-only" legislation wouldn't change one single, solitary thing about life in these United States. It might make a point, it might appease some folks and displease others. But in terms of the way government, business, hospitals, local organizations and even people go about their days, there would be absolutely no change at all.

[Spoon Poetic]

You dwellers of the world: do you want me and twenty million of me to come and work in your country, have children who will be citizens, and pervade your culture without permission?

Um... First of all, what culture? Oh, yeah, that's right. The culture that was borrowed from 75 other cultures, and was never really our own to begin with. The culture that is an amalgamation of all the cultures of the immigrants who founded this country...

Second of all, if we really are a country that's all about freedom and human rights and making yourself happy blah blah, then what's the big deal about immigration? I understand the concern about illegal aliens, because they don't pay taxes etc. But this isolationist movement where people are so dead set against other people moving into our country has got me dumbfounded. This country used to pride ourselves in the fact that we would accept "your poor, your hungry," all that jazz on the Statue of Liberty. What happened to that? Now so many people are turning into ethnocentric bigots who can't handle more diversity entering our country (when that's how THEY got here in the first place; their ancestors migrated here), and think that maybe making English the national/official/whatever language will make things better and send some sort of "message" to "those damned aliens" or whatever. It makes me sad. Why is it bad to have people that originated from other countries moving here where (in most cases) they can make a better life, and add some diversity to our pot? We're all here in the first place because of immigration. Why should it not continue?

[Despondent]

This country used to pride ourselves in the fact that we would accept "your poor, your hungry," all that jazz on the Statue of Liberty. What happened to that?

The French gave us the statue. I'd presume they wrote it. They certainly understand pervasive influence, and seem to wish to avoid it themselves.


I guess my major beef is with Liberal politicians pandering to illegals. It's an easy way to get a vote, but it doesn't represent the way most Americans feel (yes, I'm presuming that). Maybe we'll get lucky and have a third party candidate so this clinton doesn't win with a majority either- but still wins, regardless.

[OhNo_Stereo]

I think passing legislature to make english the official language of the US would be about as significant as each state's bird, tree and flower. just vaguely symbolic with no real application.

We're losing our birthright and blindly giving it away to the mexican nation within us.

I'm just sayin. You dwellers of the world: do you want me and twenty million of me to come and work in your country, have children who will be citizens, and pervade your culture without permission?

I've spent most of my life in a metropolitan area virtually swarming with immigrants 'pervading' every aspect of society invited or uninvited. Neither myself nor anyone I've ever know has ever lost a job to or felt like less of an american because of an immigrant. I really can't understand what you're saying here. please show me a historic example of comperable immigration in another country that eventually destroyed that country and it's way of life.

This post has been edited by OhNo_Stereo: 04 October 2007 - 12:49 PM

[Jordan]

If there is an offical language, not just the most common one that every one speaks, then there is no room for debate on the subject. you'll never have a state that begins making demands like "we're a spanish first state" you won't have long political battles over it, you won't have arguments over spanish on cearel boxes, you'll save yourself the trouble of listening to CNN analysts discuss the pros and cons and blah blah blah.

If there is one official language, regardless of what Juan speaks at home, then it will save you the language war, a war with no winners. It's just a headache you'll have to deal with along side the myriad of race and cultural problems you guys already have.

And dont' tell me my uno official language will not stop people from speaking spanish, because this is not my point.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 04 October 2007 - 12:50 PM

[Spoon Poetic]

There IS no "language war." This isn't a problem that needs correction! It's usually just the opinion of a handful of white people that think English is better because they speak it.

And no, the French did not put that poem there. It was put there after we already had the statue. And regardless of the poem, this country was born out of immigration, and nothing can change that. If you're going to address my arguments, address the significant parts.

[Jen]

If there is an offical language, not just the most common one that every one speaks, then there is no room for debate on the subject. you'll never have a state that begins making demands like "we're a spanish first state" you won't have long political battles over it, you won't have arguments over spanish on cearel boxes, you'll save yourself the trouble of listening to CNN analysts discuss the pros and cons and blah blah blah.

Jordan, I appreciate better than most, I think, where you're coming from on this debate -- I realize that this is the situation in Canada. (I think I disagree with you about the direness of the situation, but this is a debate we can begin another day -- an Chefelf Referendum, if you will? For my Canada includes Quebec, just as my Chefelf includes a Debate Club, no matter how thorny). However, I can assure you there is no state in the U.S. asking to be a Spanish-first state (and no matter what others say, this is not in any danger of happening). There will continue be Spanish on some cereal boxes and laundry detergent bottles and the like, whether it is mandated or not (in some areas, it's just good business.)

Here's my question, and I mean this very sincerely, actually: Where is this threat (of the U.S. being overrun?) coming from? In my daily life (thus: in an urban environment, in a polyglot city), I honestly do not see any threats to an English dominance in any respect. But many people who I admire and respect see this threat, so I ask: where do you see it? What are these threatening signs? Where do you see English being overwhelmed by another language? Maybe if we can all discuss specifics, we'll have a more productive conversation. I know I will.

[Jordan]

I know this is a hypothetical debate. The US is not in danger from Spanish speakers. English will not be threatened, just like it's not being threatend in Canada.

I'm just saying if you guys become officially bilingual, you will enter the same tedious political battle that we as Canadians have to deal with from time to time. Once something like this is able to step into the political arena, it will begin to spar. I don't think the idea of a spanish first state is that off the wall, if spanish was recognized as an official language.

Why bother open another can of worms is all I'm saying.

[Despondent]

Ok, I'm done here. I just wanted to vent and pass along some conservative thought, (there's certainly little enough of that in these parts) even though the content has been labelled a hoax.

I'm not going to change the world and I'm certainly not going to affect change by presenting such matters here. I did want to express myself and I've done that. So if you'll excuse me, I'm off to denegrade our troops and steamroll over anyone that gets in my way, so long as they're the downtrodden to begin with. Or maybe I'll just accept every damn thing the media says, so long as it makes me feel good.

[civilian_number_two]

It wasn't labeled a hoax. Snopes determined that the voting took place, but that the email makes the issue bigger and different than it originally was.

As for Canada, the bilingual status was set up to protect French culture. I don't have a problem with that.

[Cobnat]

Quebec should be an independent state. VIVA LA QUEBEC!

Nah I’m just kidding. I can certainly relate to those who wish for multicultural societies to have an official language but let me ask you this: what language do they teach at school in the U.S and Canada?

[Jordan]

I think our french hertiage is cool too, and montreal is our best city by a long shot and quebec women are fun. However, the whole idea of breaking away from Canada was disheartening to me, and this issue of being a nation within a nation has added just another thing to grumble over. It's sort of a pain in the ass and any other country might aswell avoid it. I also was peeved when they tried to breakaway and leave their debt with us. Also, they can be total assholes at times when waitresses refuse to speak english to you.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 04 October 2007 - 03:48 PM

[Slade]

The only danger I can see here is of ethnocentric/xenophobic white people feeling uncomfortable when people of different skin tones walk too close to them. I'm all for keeping illegal immagrants out or making them become citizens or face deportion if they're already in the country, but this country was founded by immagrants with the intent that it have its doors open for all people of all races and cultures to move here, become citizens, and work for a living where they wouldn't be oppressed. And after 232 years or so, we're finally sorta kinda getting close to that. In some areas. There is no English or white culture that needs protection, and if you've been living here for over a generation or two and haven't moved from Europe, you're already a product of the amalagam that the US is.

Alternatively: THRRR TRRRRK RRRRR JERRRRRRRRBS!

[J m HofMarN]

First of all, white culture is shit. Capitalism, genocide, slavery, sitcoms, this is your fucking white history my friend. There's no culture to preserve, and most Americans are barely literate in their own native language, so making English the official language is going to screw over a bunch of native born citizens when it turns out they can't write it. It's also giving people an excuse not to learn other languages. You can take any immigrant from Mexico and compare them to any college student and it's a fair bet that they'll know more English than that college student will know of Spanish or any other language.

Immigrants do us a service by bringing in their own culture and enriching the country with it. If people in the US hadnt been exposed to Italian, Mediterranean and Asian foods by our immigrants, the rate of heart attacks would be at least twice as high. And let's face it, the stigma Latinos are facing is no different than the attacks heaped on other immigrants throughout history. But the US always came out the better for it no matter how much the conservatives grumbled.