[Vwing]

Ok, just wanted to throw this out for discussion. Does anyone else find it absolutely hilarious (predictable, but hilarious) that after all this contraversy over this movie, you never even hear about it anymore? I mean, you knew nothing would happen and it would all basically be a bunch of marketing crap to sell the movie, and you knew the world would go on, but I really just crack up when I think about it. People really thought that Mel Gibson, MEL GIBSON was going to start another Holocaust. They thought this would be the downfall of society (well Jewish society anyway). Though sad, it's also just very laughable to me. Anyone else feel this way?

[Jordan]

Why further perpetuate the hype by talking about it?

[Jon Gutner]

[B][I][U][FONT=Arial][SIZE=7][COLOR=purple]

kno

BLAHMBABAGO!!!!!

[Heccubus]

Jon, you summed it up perfectly. As usual.

You know, I figure it might be because it's old news. The world has a three week attention span.

[Supes]

Why further perpetuate the hype by talking about it?

Because this is a forum for discussion.

You know, I figure it might be because it's old news. The world has a three week attention span.

Which is also why in this section we have topics relating to Batman and other such films that were made in the late 80's and even better in the Star Wars Forum we discuss films that were first released in 1978.

It's all relative really.

[Jordan]

Ok. Lets talk about the Passion.

I think Mel did not want it to blow up like it did with all the negative reviews. He said he was directed to make this movie. He feels this was his calling in life.

The negative reviews actaully turned out to be a blessing, it helped market the movie. End of story.

We have movies like "the last temptation of christ" and "dogma' which are total perversions of scripture. They did no get much flack (if any) as the Passion did.

I never thought it would start a holocaust, I don't know anyone who thought that way.

Everyone of my pals who saw the movie liked it. And none of them are christian. I've yet to see the movie. I'm waiting for the DVD. I know the story well and figured I'll wait.

I don' t know if I want to witness Jesus getting beaten for 2 hours straight. It might up lift me in the end. I'm sure it will.

[barend]

no, esentially... when you make a film that prominantly features jews, it is important that you portray them as victims. If you don't than you must be a NAZI. in fact if you use the word jew in a sentance like I just did, Your a NAZI.

annyway i better go shave my head and masturbate to pictures of Hitler, to be in compliance with what everone else thinks about me now...

sorry, i'm still offended at the fact that I was labled a racist for seeing this movie and seeing no Anti-semetic overtones in it...

[Esco]

Barend, you're a little graphic for my taste, but yes, in general I agree completely with what you are saying.
In a movie that invests so much time showing the Romans flogging and torturing Jesus, I find it funny how much stock people put into the whole Jewish anti-Semitism.

[Just your average movie goer]

I can really live without seeing people brutally tortured. It's not something I like to see in any movie, although it happens.

With The Passion Of Christ, I KNOW that's exactly what I will see if I watch it... therefore, not surprisingly, I haven't seen it.

As for it starting a holocaust, I can only ask what the hell is wrong with people?

I'm not a Christian and I think the Bible has been involved in causing a lot of trouble in the world. But at the end of the day, it's a book. The trouble it caused was going to be caused anyway... because there are some people who just want to cause trouble.

The Bible was just a convenient power tool for these people to use.

And if it wasn't around, these people would have found something else.

[civilian_number_two]

Calling the Bible "a book" is like calling the Wheel "a gadget." Sure, technically and literally true, but something of an understatement all the same.

Saying that we shouldn't worry about the power that Christianity has held, that in its absence would have been somehting else, is pretty much the "shit happens' philosophy writ large. Who cares about Stalin; it was either him or someone else. It's a nice position if your goal is never to have a strong opinion about anything. Odd hearing it come from a guy who just went five rounds on whether TEMPLE OF DOOM was a good movie.

The New Testament is anti-Semitic. Well, a lot of it, anyway. Historically it's about as accurate as Mein Kampf, only it puts into the mouth of the Jewish God secret messages about how it's ok to eat food sacrificed to Roman idols and to repudiate the entire Hebrew culture. I figure THE PASSION probably is not anti-Semitic. It was made in a different time, by and for and among people who couldn't care much less about the Jews. It's a modernization of a story its maker really didn't understand. And it has some really nice photography.

[Heccubus]

Which is also why in this section we have topics relating to Batman and other such films that were made in the late 80's and even better in the Star Wars Forum we discuss films that were first released in 1978.

It's all relative really.

Because those movies have, or did have, an impact on our lives when we were young. Based on experience, people are usually more "passionate" (HA HA, I AM SO FUNNY) about something from their youth than they are about the latest big news story, which they completely forget about within a couple of months. The Passion's time in the media spotlight has been over for some time now, that's all I'm saying.

[Just your average movie goer]

Saying that we shouldn't worry about the power that Christianity has held, that in its absence would have been somehting else, is pretty much the "shit happens' philosophy writ large. Who cares about Stalin; it was either him or someone else. It's a nice position if your goal is never to have a strong opinion about anything. Odd hearing it come from a guy who just went five rounds on whether TEMPLE OF DOOM was a good movie.

Oh, no no no. I didn't make my point properly, I think.

Personally, I am EXTREMELY bothered by the way Christianity has influenced the world - from historical atrocities like the Crusades and the Witch Hunts to the way that poor women in South America who can't even look after one child, have ten children because the Pope says they can't use contraceptives.

However, the way I see it is that the Bible is being used as a political tool in all these cases. All these people have their beliefs and they want to force their beliefs on other people... and they want something to do this with.

Now, somewhere in history, the Bible became the weapon of people with power and then the people without power felt the need to join up in the religion so they'd be accepted and then more sheep followed the flock and so on and so on...

The Bible has been grossly mis-used by people like Pope Innocent II and Hitler (and millions of Americans)...

However, my point is that if the Bible never existed, these people may well have found something else. And if they couldn't find something else, they would have created it.

I sincerely believe that the removal of the Bible would take away a large portion of the nutty crowd... but there would still be a lot of extremists who would want to damage the society we live in with their dangerous ideas.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

[Vwing]

Yo guys, I wasn't trying to start a debate about the Passion here (if you want to get into one fine), I wasn't even criticizing the Passion here, and I think a lot of you overreacted to what I said. I'm more criticizing the American public here.

And Barend, I think you really gotta chill a little. First of all, I'm Jewish, and anyone who labeled you a racist for not finding it anti-semetic is just a dumbass. I haven't seen it yet, and I really don't have many intentions to, not because of the anti-semetic overtones that may or may not be there, but because I don't feel like seeing someone getting brutally tortured for 2 hours. Also, I don't think you have to portray Jews as victims. I think the main thing is to portray them as normal people. I mean there are many Jewish characters in cinema who are just people, no better or worse than any others. Again, I haven't seen this movie yet. I have heard it portrays all Jews (except of course for Jesus and his disciples ) as sniveling power-hungry stereotypical assholes, in which case I would have to say it would be right to call it anti-semetic. I have also heard that it portrays the bad people who happen to be Jews badly and the good Jews well, in which case it is unfair to call it anti-semetic. I'll make up my own mind when and if I see it, but I certainly wouldn't judge you because you felt it was not anti-semetic.

[Just your average movie goer]

Actually, I should elaborate more, methinks...

But at the end of the day, it's a book.

I stand by that. It is just a book.

The problem stems from the fact that so many people out there think it is "devine scripture" and that everybody on the face of the planet should live their lives by it.

But let's look at it seriously... what is it?

It is a collection of manuscripts written by a ton of unknowns from different locations, seperated by large chunks of time.

For one thing, it's doubtful that they are all related. Check out the way God is identified by different names in different books.

Also, why do so many people put their trust in the authors of these works?

They believe that these people who lived in the desert thousands of years ago, know more about life and the world than people today - who have the collective experience of hundreds of thousands of years ?

I'd daresay that the greatest philosophers alive today probably know a lot more about life than some of the people who helped pen the Bible.


Also, why do people think that this ancient religion is any more credible than that of the Norse or the Ancient Greeks? Who is to say that we shouldn't all be worshipping the Egyptian Sun God Ra?

Judaism and Christianity are no more credible than these in my view.

Also, why do so Christians oppose the Islam faith when they are both worshipping the same God?

Why do so many people just ditch the Islam faith for Christianity when seeing how we know a lot more about the life of the prophet Mohommed than that of Jesus, Islam seems a lot more credible than Christianity?


Again, I stand by my belief that the Bible is just a book. The trouble stems from the countless people across the world, who without question, accept the notion that it is something much greater.

Okay, maybe THAT might clear up the misunderstanding.

[Just your average movie goer]

To Civilian Number Two,

I feel kind of bad about posting the particular comment you took issue with. It was a very light dismissal of a serious issue and I apologise for that.

There were three reasons why I posted that flippant, quite off-hand comment:

1. I was just about to go to work at the time, so I just typed a quick comment and hit "Add Reply".

2. I didn't want to start a serious discussion about religion here because religion is such a heavy topic that if you start discussing it seriously, you discuss it VERY SERIOUSLY.

3. I have had countless arguments with ignorant people who claim to be Christians without ever breaking through their stubborn mental blocks.... and I have discussed the issue at length more times than I care to remember with more people than I care to remember... and after all of that, I can't say that anything has changed. Millions of people around the world blindly follow this faith without thinking seriously beforehand, this is causing a lot of very serious problems in the world and if anything, the problem is getting worse.

So because of this, I have become very tired and jaded and although I have very strong feelings on the subject, I no longer have the heart to carry on fighting for the cause. Until people start to think for themselves and question what other people tell them, follow reason and think rationally, the problem is not going to disappear.



So this morning, I basically thought "Fuck it. It's just a discussion thread about a fairly average sounding movie and it's not worth getting fired up about or starting a big debate on religion."

I was just objecting to the stupidity that people thought this movie was going to affect wide-scale social change.

I doubt that people will even remember it after its first run on TV.

Afterall, who needs yet another Jesus movie?


Regards,

JYAMG