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I pledge allegiance... Who do YOU take orders from?

#1 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 02:29 PM

I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America. And to the republic, for which it stands, One nation under God, with liberty and justice for all.

Additionally; As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

---

Personally, I'm glad we're not under socialist regime. That can all change next year, of course. But until we have a dictator who forces me to serve her (I'd leave, first. Alec Baldwin- I could always rescind, right?), I ain't calling anyone "Excellency". We live in a country where the best and the brightest can come out of individuals. Got a problem with that? I'm not interested.

What I do want to know: Whom do YOU serve?
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#2 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 02:43 PM

Whom do I serve? Why, Her Majesty's Secret Service, of course. tongue.gif

But, seriously; I serve America. mellow.gif
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#3 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 03:32 PM

Personally, ever since I was a kid, I hated the Pledge of Allegiance. I hate that we're forced to say it ever day (we'd get punished if we didn't say it, up until high school), and I hate that we were pledging allegiance to a friggin' piece of fabric on a pole. The part about "and to the Republic for which it stands" at least makes sense, but pledging to serve and protect a flag that's mass produced at thousands per day (or however many) never seemed necessary to me.

Of course, my two years at a Christian school were no better. The pledge to the US flag was followed with "I pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag, and to the Saviour, for whose kingdom it stands. One Saviour, crucified, risen and coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe" which was followed with "I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God's holy Word. I will make it a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. I will hide its word in my heart, so that I might not sin against God." Can't believe I still remember those.

I guess I just feel like being forced to quote this paragraph every day isn't very fair. It doesn't provide opportunity for sincerity when you HAVE to say it every day. It becomes rote and not taken seriously.

But I digress. I serve God, but my version of Christianity is as such that I don't even like to call it Christianity, for fear of being lumped in with the stupid ones that call themselves Christian and yet are worse people then anyone I know. (Some of my beliefs are fairly deviant from standard Christian theology anyway.) Then I serve my family, or at least, had I one, that's what would go in this second slot here (though I guess my little bro counts). Next I serve people - I don't limit it to just my country. I will do what I feel is good for all, not just what might benefit my country or followers of my religion or anything. Patriotism is fine, but I prefer to rise above ethnocentricism. And of course I serve myself, as long as it doesn't interfere with any of the above. (Kinda sounds like the Robot Laws.)
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Posted 07 September 2007 - 03:36 PM

Well, Christianity is all good, as long as you don't pay attention to the part about Jesus wishing the earth was on fire... ohmy.gif
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#5 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 03:40 PM

I think you have something a little mixed up there, bud. That was a metaphor.
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#6 User is offline   Deepsycher Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 03:46 PM

I was reading some articles a long time ago when I first heard of the Plegde or Allegiance. Probably in 2004 but I was put off when I came across this story. It is the closest thing I can find from what I remember.

http://www.kuro5hin....6/30/64522/2574

I only remember it by abusing people to believe in one thing.

Anybody threatened here with physical abuse this way for not believing in that?

No different to being treated as a bunch of slaves.

Ah here we go using archive:

QUOTE
Posted on Sat, Jun. 29, 2002

School 'pledge' protest goes before court

By BARNINI CHAKRABORTY

The Associated Press

Atlanta -- A federal appeals court heard arguments Friday on whether an Alabama school system had the right to discipline a student who stood silently with his fist raised rather than recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

The student, Michael Holloman, a high school senior from Parrish, Ala., who has since graduated, was spanked three times with a wooden paddle and given a written reprimand.

The case was argued before the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta only days after another federal appeals court ruled that the pledge is unconstitutional because of the words "under God."

The attorney for the school board in Walker County, Ala., told the judges that Holloman was punished two years ago for disrupting class, not for refusing to say the pledge.

"He acted out, and he has attempted to cloak his behavior in the First Amendment," attorney Russell Robertson said.

Robertson said a teacher sent Holloman to the principal's office after receiving several complaints from other students who said they were unable to say the pledge because of Holloman's actions.

But Holloman's lawyer, Charles Tatum, said his client did not disrupt the class. He said raising a fist in the air was a form of speech, similar to placing a hand over your heart when saying the pledge.

"You've got a right to disagree with things that are seen as morally and politically correct in this country," Tatum said.

Holloman was not present during Friday's arguments.

Court papers said Walker County school board policy requires students to say the pledge and salute the flag during the day's first class. The policy also requires students to sit through "prayer requests" and a moment of silence.

The suit, filed two years ago in federal court, said Walker County's policy of requiring the pledge violated students' rights of free speech, exp​ression and freedom of religion.

Holloman is appealing a federal judge's decision last year to dismiss the case.

Tatum said the case differs from the one considered by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco.

"This issue in our case is related to whether a student can be punished for refusal to say the pledge more so than the issue of whether the pledge is constitutional," Tatum said.

The 9th Circuit ruling governs only the states of Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington.


He should take that stick and give the teacher back the same. Except as it seems that teachers have more rights than students there and he'll probably be expelled, blacklisted from other schools and put in prison. A form of blackmailing.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 07 September 2007 - 03:59 PM

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#7 User is offline   mireaux7 Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 04:08 PM

QUOTE (Spoon Poetic @ Sep 7 2007, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, ever since I was a kid, I hated the Pledge of Allegiance. I hate that we're forced to say it ever day (we'd get punished if we didn't say it, up until high school), and I hate that we were pledging allegiance to a friggin' piece of fabric on a pole.


that cloth on a pole, was actually made with blood, sweat & tears. its symbolism is simply replicated in a factory. but im with you, every flag should be handmade,.not machine-made.

i too thought it was weird that i was forced to say the pledge of allegiance every day in school. not only that, we were forced to sing a song right after it..seems like it was "my country tis of thee...let freedom ring"

Not that I wasnt patriotic back then,.but i think most 7 yr old dont fully understand what the flag stands for, and the fact we were made to sing songs, and pledge allegiance at such a tender age or face dire repercussions if we refused, was absurd.

i could refuse to play dodgeball, and id be ok..but if i refused to pledge allegiance, i would be sent to the principal's office...something doesnt gel there.

This post has been edited by mireaux7: 07 September 2007 - 04:09 PM

QUOTE (njamilla @ Feb 23 2008, 08:16 AM)
Shit, Fuck, Piss: I had to say that because I can on this website. (Thanks Chef!)

QUOTE (chefelf @ Feb 23 2008, 10:30 AM)
That's what I'm here for.
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#8 User is offline   Deepsycher Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 04:13 PM

What would the principle do? Throw you out of school?

They talk about freedom but as my quote above on beating people up for not believing in something reminds of the sort of things that happened in Animal Farm.

I call it a mis use of authority. That is not discipline. That is using discipline to enforce someone else's own view onto another.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 07 September 2007 - 04:15 PM

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#9 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:02 PM

QUOTE (mireaux7 @ Sep 7 2007, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i too thought it was weird that i was forced to say the pledge of allegiance every day in school. not only that, we were forced to sing a song right after it..seems like it was "my country tis of thee...let freedom ring"


Heh. My school did that, too.

By the way, the song's called America, and it's set to the tune of God Save the Queen. wink.gif
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#10 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:49 PM

But I digress. I serve God, but my version of Christianity is as such that I don't even like to call it Christianity, for fear of being lumped in with the stupid ones that call themselves Christian and yet are worse people then anyone I know. (Some of my beliefs are fairly deviant from standard Christian theology anyway.)

Translation: I'm a new age liberal quasi christian whose ashamed of the actual religion but borrow heavily from the bits I like.
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#11 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:49 PM

I pledge allegiance to the principles of truth, justice, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that doesn't infringe upon others' rights to happiness. Sadly, the US is failing really hard at that at the moment. So much promise, so much of it empty in recent years. sad.gif

I pledge allegiance to no God or Goddess (except maybe Goddess, but even she knows that she's just as crazy as I am fnord), and I fervently wish our government was socialist. Reduction of the income gap and focus on humanitarian budgets instead of defense budgets would be amazing. When I say socialist, I don't mean the state-capitalist regime of Soviet Russia or the "People's Republic" of China. I mean reasonable governments that help out the less fortunate instead of telling them to fuck off, full of people who don't hoard all of their money away and bitch when even a single cent is used to support public works, or when they have to pay more money to drive their environment ruining, resource hogging SUVs, and where the best and brightest really can come out and shine instead of being oppressed in favor of large corporations ruling an entire industry of culture and media due to gross corruption of government. Of course, complaining about culture and corruption are separate complaints about the type of government.

But I'm just a stupid coffee drinking, philosophy reading, liberal hippy douchebag who's completely out of touch with the entire world, where it's ok that the dogs eat dogs, the people eat people when they don't just shoot them, and everything's just great as long as televisions still air masturbatory faux-patriotic garbage. It's ok, because that's just the way it is. Don't mind me.

Edit: Jordan: I'd be ashamed of all of the blood and vengeance and hatred in the mainstream religion, were I of said religion. and we're in the modern era. It's ok to think for ourselves instead of blindly following 2000 year old dogmatic texts written by and for desert nomad tribes. We can believe what we want to believe. And really, if God's as anal as the fundamentalists have you believe, I don't think it would be worth it trying to live a spotless enough life to get into heaven. You can keep your blood and souls, just don't knock people who don't buy it anymore.

This post has been edited by Slade: 07 September 2007 - 05:59 PM

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#12 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:57 PM

QUOTE
Translation: I'm a new age liberal quasi christian whose ashamed of the actual religion but borrow heavily from the bits I like.


No. You know next to nothing of my beliefs and you have no right to make such accusations of me. I am in no way ashamed of my God or Jesus my friend and Saviour - however, I despise the man-made parts of *religion* that everyone has accepted as canon. Several concepts that have been integrated into the Christian religion were never intended to be there in the first place - many are never even mentioned in the Bible. I've studied the Bible and numerous other religious texts nearly all of my life, as well as having personal experiences I can base my beliefs around. If you did some research of your own to the extensiveness that I have, you might even come to some of the same conclusions. So before you attack me, you might want to make sure you know what you're talking about.

This post has been edited by Spoon Poetic: 07 September 2007 - 05:58 PM

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 06:10 PM

Does anyone else find it strange that people read "I have come to set the world on fire, and how I wish it were already burning!" as showing that Jesus wants to spread the faith, instead of what it obviously means: Jesus bringing on the Apocalypse? unsure.gif
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#14 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:54 PM

For me it would probably just be the current government of Cuba. Hamas and Hizbullah I'm borderline on, I'll have to go there and see, but I wouldnt mind dying under a green banner. I don't know enough to decide whether I'd really take orders from either group but I'd fight for the basic causes they support. Supporting a cause and obeying a leader are quite different things.

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:56 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Sep 7 2007, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For me it would probably just be the current government of Cuba. Hamas and Hizbullah I'm borderline on, I'll have to go there and see, but I wouldnt mind dying under a green banner.


Um... do you even live in Cuba? huh.gif

As for that green banner, it's partly red now, what with all the blood U.S. troops have spilled on foreign soil... angry.gif
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