[ernesttomlinson]

Ouch. That last paragraph of yours is written in battery acid, Mnesymone. And I agree.

I suspect that all of the special pleading about Anakin's pod-race brilliance being proof that he was "a great pilot" is pointless because I doubt whether Lucas ever even had that in mind. I don't think his thoughts on the sequence went further than, "Ooh, futuristic chariot race, ooh!" (Or, maybe, "Wouldn't this make a cool video game?") And, when you think about it, what exactly does Anakin do during the race that's so brilliant? He gets forced off the track but gets back on it ahead of almost everyone else - I defy anyone to watch that sequence and explain to me how Anakin did it. He just does and that's fatal. It feels contrived. Lucas the animator waves his wand: "Anakin must appear to be losing but then start winning again. Make it so." The only other thing he does during the race is some kind of trick of rerouting power to his dead engine. This reeks of Star Trek technobabble ("route auxiliary power to the shields!" crap) and in any case it doesn't come across as that impressive a feat. For the rest of it Anakin wins because...well, because he's supposed to win. One minute he's half a lap behind everyone, the next minute he's outstripped them all.
Just like that.

By comparison, Han Solo's evasion of the Imperial fleet in ESB shows real tactical skill. Flying through the asteroid field, hiding out in one of the larger asteroids for repairs, his crazy manoeuvre in charging the Imperial vessel head on - all of these directly demonstrate Solo's cleverness. Do you get any sense of that from the pod-racing sequence?


I don't care what happens in Episode III. That pod race is indefensible and irredeemable from the get-go.

[Nicholas_Skywalker]

Might I remind you that not only did he win the pod race he also destroyed the droid control ship! thats skill! Might I also remind you that han solo is a hell of a lot older then ani was in episode 1, ani was 9... . it showes his obviously special. I like the prequals, I like the original trioly, I like star wars! They may or not be perfect but what is? Its better to enjoy things then to hate, havent you ever heard hating can bring bad health problems? . But i admit I do hate somthing... the people who claim"george lucas raped there child hood" aw come on! you must of had a stuffed about childhood if it only depended on 3 movies!

[Just your average movie goer]

He destroyed the droid ship... that's skill?

No, it's LUCK!

It's also COMPLETE BULLSHIT and UTTERLY STUPID!


Yeah, he's obviously special.... rubbish. The only thing that is obvious is that Lucas can't make a decent movie. Unfortunately you don't have the wit to see it, you silly mindless person.



EDIT - It's a shame really. Just when this forum was finally calming down and we were getting some sanity around the place, all you new gushers had come and drag down the mean average IQ. Thanks a lot.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 28 April 2005 - 07:00 AM

[Nicholas_Skywalker]

Actully im not a gusher im a fan. I know there not perfect movies im not trying to say they are I'm just trying to point out mistakes bashers have made. And remember obi wan once said "In my experiance there is no such thing as luck" maybe he was referring to the droid control ship being blown up... who knows. Ih he cant make a decent movie then why is the one of the most famous movie makers in history? without him there would be no star wars there would be no discussion now about star wars, there would be not gushing and there would be no bashing there would be no fans! Why arent you making fun of episode 4 seeying as lucas made that.

This post has been edited by Nicholas_Skywalker: 28 April 2005 - 07:18 AM

[Helena]

Actully im not a gusher im a fan. I know there not perfect movies im not trying to say they are I'm just trying to point out mistakes bashers have made. And remember obi wan once said "In my experiance there is no such thing as luck" maybe he was referring to the droid control ship being blown up... who knows. Ih he cant make a decent movie then why is the one of the most famous movie makers in history? without him there would be no star wars there would be no discussion now about star wars, there would be not gushing and there would be no bashing there would be no fans! Why arent you making fun of episode 4 seeying as lucas made that.

Sorry, Nicholas, but by our definition of the word you are most certainly a 'gusher'. You're so in love with the Prequels that you're trying to defend things which blatantly don't make sense. How you can complain that Anakin accidentally blowing up the droid ship is evidence of his 'skill' as a pilot is beyond me.

And Lucas may have been able to make decent movies once, but he's clearly lost that ability (if he ever really had that much in the first place - remember that he had a lot of help with the OT). The first three were good; I'm not denying that. But the Prequels are simply terrible, and I say that not as someone who's loved the OT since childhood, but someone who hadn't seen any of the movies up until a few years ago. There is just no comparison between them.

[Nicholas_Skywalker]

Sorry, Nicholas, but by our definition of the word you are most certainly a 'gusher'. You're so in love with the Prequels that you're trying to defend things which blatantly don't make sense. How you can complain that Anakin accidentally blowing up the droid ship is evidence of his 'skill' as a pilot is beyond me.

And Lucas may have been able to make decent movies once, but he's clearly lost that ability (if he ever really had that much in the first place - remember that he had a lot of help with the OT). The first three were good; I'm not denying that. But the Prequels are simply terrible, and I say that not as someone who's loved the OT since childhood, but someone who hadn't seen any of the movies up until a few years ago. There is just no comparison between them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im not in love with them, Unlike you I do have a life it just doesent depend on star wars. So far weve only discuss the midi's and the droid control ship, Scens I liked. We havent discussed every element of the PT so far so you dont know what I like and dont and i admit there is some stuff i dont like about the PT and theres some I dont like about the OT. As I said b4 nothing is perfect. And you lucas may have been able to make decnet films in the past, you call them his old movies decent yet you said you loved the OT. So what is it, are they decent or great?

This post has been edited by Nicholas_Skywalker: 28 April 2005 - 07:33 AM

[Helena]

Im not in love with them, Unlike you I do have a life it just doesent depend on star wars.  So far weve only discuss the midi's and the droid control ship, Scens I liked. We havent discussed every element of the PT so far so you dont know what I like and dont and i admit there is some stuff i dont like about the PT and theres some I dont like about the OT. As I said b4 nothing is perfect. And you lucas may have been able to make decnet films in the past, you call them his old movies decent yet you said you loved the OT. So what is it, are they decent or great?

No, I never said I loved the OT movies - I like them, but don't love them. Like I said, I didn't even see them until a few years ago, and I haven't seen any of them more than twice - so my life does not 'depend' on Star Wars, as it happens. Resorting to 'get a life' because you can't come up with real arguments is not going to make you popular here (just ask a certain person named 'use the force').

[Nicholas_Skywalker]

No, I never said I loved the OT movies - I like them, but don't love them. Like I said, I didn't even see them until a few years ago, and I haven't seen any of them more than twice - so my life does not 'depend' on Star Wars, as it happens. Resorting to 'get a life' because you can't come up with real arguments is not going to make you popular here (just ask a certain person named 'use the force').

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then why do you talk about bullshit all the time of a star wars forum if your not evan that into them? Surly no one would waste there time doing this sorta stuff if there not enthusiastic about them.

[Helena]

Then why do you talk about bullshit all the time of a star wars forum if your not evan that into them? Surly no one would waste there time doing this sorta stuff if there not enthusiastic about them.

Because I enjoy bashing the Prequels - it's fun. And some of the other discussions we have are interesting, even if you're not obsessed with the movies.

[CowboyCurtis]

The problem with "non-gushers" is that they consider the PT's to the source of Star Wars. They really need to get it in their heads that Episode IV-VI came first!

Nicholas----PT's would not have existed if it were not for the OT. You really need to watch those first films with the frame-of-mind that the OT's were made first, and honestly... go through it... slowly... have a pad in your hand... put the PT out of your mind. Record little jots in your notebook about what is said by characters. It would really help if you had the original versions.

[Nicholas_Skywalker]

The problem with "non-gushers" is that they consider the PT's to the source of Star Wars.  They really need to get it in their heads that Episode IV-VI came first!

Nicholas----PT's would not have existed if it were not for the OT.  You really need to watch those first films with the frame-of-mind that the OT's were made first, and honestly... go through it... slowly... have a pad in your hand... put the PT out of your mind.  Record little jots in your notebook about what is said by characters.  It would really help if you had the original versions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the OT would never exist without lucas so stop bashing the hell outta lucas will ya!

CowboyCurtis is my friend!

[civilian_number_two]

Nicholas: I agree, the OT would not have existed without George Lucas. We owe him credit for that. On the other hand, the OT also would not have existed without a lot of people, including George Lucas. Ralph McQuarrie is nearly single-handedly responsible for the look of STAR WARS; Marcia Lucas is responsible for the editing, which trust me, is an important thing; numerous other sci-fi writers are responsible for the plot and various story elements (not mythology and Jospeh Campbell, btw: that lie is as ridiculous as Torie Amos's claims that her chief inspoiration was Elton John and not Kate Bush). John Williams is single-handedly responsible for the FEEL of STAR WARS. Without his industry-altering score, the film would have been a MUCH different thing. Why do I go into this? Because GL bought the rights to these movies, and he re-edited them, and permanently altered them, and likes to go on and on about how they are his movies and ultimately it is his business to control his own creation. This is a guy who took too seriously that course in "Auteur Theory" he took at UCLA. This alone is reason to consider the guy a crass self-promoter who takes credit for other people's work, and that alone loses him a load of respect. Also, I think it's perfectly legitimate to love one thing a filmmaker put out and hate another. There are too many examples for me to get into it.

The droid control ship: Has it occured to you that a shapce ship that controls an army of droids is a ridiculous application of deus ex machina? Ans has it occurred to you that the hangar of that spaceship had a huge gun INSIDE it, and that one like it had completely obliterated Qui-Gon's much larger spaceship earlier in the movie? The moment where Anikin destroyed the droid control ship is about the most ridiculous action conclusion in the history of film.

[CowboyCurtis]

And the OT would never exist without lucas so stop bashing the hell outta lucas will ya!

CowboyCurtis is my friend!

I'm sure you think that, but that first line should say, "gushers" NOT "non-gushers..." Sorry for the confusion folks.

I better leave for a while. I'm just going to make things worse.


Just for the record, Nicholas.... I can bash Lucas all I want. He is a public figure, opened to criticism. Free country. Free speech.

Also, I don't dislike the George Lucas who was integral in the creation of ANH-ESB (and maybe a little on ROTJ), but I DO dislike the "fat-elvis" George Lucas who is responsible for the PT's.

Curtis out.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 28 April 2005 - 01:56 PM

[StarWarsIsUs]

Nicholas, my dear fool... I am sorry you feel the way you do. Are you a GL Youth? When GL sets up for world domination, are you hoping to be promoted to a high ranking officer? Well... its never going to happen, bud. I'm sorry. Here... come cry on my shoulder.

Let me explain. I'm going to use comparison, to maybe drill it into your head. Alright... Compare TRUE SW fans of the OT, to Conservative Christians. Now, compare gushers, to Mormons.

Now, compare TRUE SW fans of the OT, to Islam. Now, compare gushers, to the Nation of Islam.

Psuedo... fake... sugareed-down...

PT is so far gone from the OT. They don't flow. Anakin with the podrace, exists only because GL discovered computer technology. Does the PR have shit to do with Anakin's character development? No, not really.

Also notice: Obi-Wan didn't even see the podrace. He was back at the plastic doll-space ship.


(NOTE: I have nothing against Mormons. If you are one, thats cool. )

[Mnesymone]

Was it just me or did this topic get derailed since last I posted here?