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The Prequels according to us.

#31 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 02:13 AM

Yeah, it was a gamble of a reference. You've mentioned that you're acquainted with other actors, but I thought I'd take a shot in the dark and see how it went.

Looks like it hit LTTS. Sorry! sad.gif

This post has been edited by Supes: 22 April 2004 - 02:13 AM

Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter.
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#32 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 02:33 PM

QUOTE (Mike Mac from NYU @ Apr 21 2004, 02:40 PM)
smile.gif Although it is curious that in ANH, Owen Lars has the same the same type of 'robes' that Obi-Wan and Yoda and Anakin{ROTJ} wear. i know Lucas explained this a little in TPM script. But still it is worth noting.

Yeah, well there's *another* thing that bugged me about JEDI, the first of many examples of Lucas just lazily cannibalizing his first two movies to slap out a third. Worse than Jabba living on Tatooine (what's Han even doing there, if he's trying to avoid this guy?), worse than Boba Fett, presence and trivial death, worse than the rehashed Cantina scene, worse that Leia being the "other" (well, not really, but expect hyperbole), worse than the second Death Star (again,not really), is the fact that Bens' desert-living hermit costume is suddenly the Jedi fricking uniform! WTF? Ben is hiding out on an alegedly unimportant, far-flung planet, under an assumed name (and not a very good one), and he is disguised as a Jedi knight?

Too much, too much.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#33 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 03:38 PM

I thought TPM made it the Jedi uniform, not JEDI. In JEDI Ben is dressed like that so he is easily recognizeable to Luke, but I don't remember anywhere thinking that that was what all Jedi wore. TPM made them the official uniform.

And Barend, though I am once again sacrificing my integrity on these boards for liking movies that are considered horrible by many people, I thought the Matrix sequels were *gulp* very good, especially Revolutions. I'll discuss it with you whenever I want, anything you wanna know about it, I'll clear up for you, and I'll also argue with you about it smile.gif. Man, first Return of the Jedi, now this. My integrity is probably like a 4 out of 10 now. *thinks to self* It's a good thing no one knows I also like Ben Affleck movies. Wait did I type that? Uh-oh. Integrity's now 0 isn't it? Oh well. *starts watching Jersey Girl*

Clarification: I have actually never seen Pearl Harbor, Jersey Girl, or Gigli so I can't comment on them. I have seen Daredevil and Paycheck. I did enjoy them as nice little action pictures, though I thought Daredevil was much better than Spiderman, and is an underrated movie. Of course, that's coming from me, so take it with a grain of salt smile.gif
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#34 User is offline   Mike Mac from NYU Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 04:44 PM

QUOTE
Ben is hiding out on an alegedly unimportant, far-flung planet, under an assumed name (and not a very good one), and he is disguised as a Jedi knight?"


In the vast, desert wasteland, Obi-Wan could actually use his real name and wear a name tag that says Obi-Wan and the Imperials probably still wouldn't find him. Remmeber it's a vast planet and there are several dunes and even a mountain range. Consider the fact that we can't even find Osama Bin Ladin in Afghanistan and we know he is there!!!!. Keep in mind that Tatooine is also supposde to be on the outer rim of the galaxy and is NOT part of Imperial Territory. I mean heck, Uncle Owen's farm is in the middle of nowhere and they probably don't have a nother human being living within 200 miles of them.


Now for an ROTJ snipe!!

It is perfectly logical for Tatooine to be the place were Jabba's home is.

1. The whole point of the Tatooine scene in ROTJ is that it is symbolic of Luke growing up. In the other two episodes it was a running joke that Luke was always getting rescued by Han. {one of his several "teachers" and father figures in the movies}. Now the student has learned, Luke is rescuing Han. Luke is now returning to his birth place to begin a new chapter in hios growth not only as a Jedi but as a human being. It is perfect to have that "growing phase' on Tatooine.

2. In the original screenplay and novelization it is stated that Luke returned to Ben's home and his uncle' farm. There was supposed to be a scene of reflection{ as well as a scene where he builds his lightsaber in Ben's home} This scene was eliminated by George Lucas to decrease the film length.

3. Tatooine is THE place for various forms of villains and scum and I think Jabba fits that bill. Heck Ben said in ANH.

4. Remember in the original screenplay for ANH and in the SE's Han meets Jabba on Tatooine. I don't think Jabba would go to another planet just to bargain with Han Solo. I think his flunkies like Greedo would, but no, Jabba would only do it i it was convenient.

5. For practical purposes, it prevents having to come up with another planet that Lucas would have to create. Consider the Alderaan/Naboo stupidity in TPM.
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#35 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 08:49 PM

Han was a tough guy who shot Gredo first! that's why he was on tatooine. He was a Hard Ass!!!

Vwing, check my Matrix thred in the movie section!!!
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#36 Guest_Commoner_*

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 09:13 PM

The same point i was going to make about Han, too. He shows he's tough, and even though I don't like the Jabba addition scene, the only thing it does is clarify Han's character, even if stepping on Jabba's tail was out of line, it still showed that he wasn't afraid to confront the gangster.


And it's still true... HAN SHOT FIRST!
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#37 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 09:31 PM

QUOTE (Mike Mac from NYU @ Apr 22 2004, 04:44 PM)
4. Remember in the original screenplay for ANH and in the SE's Han meets Jabba on Tatooine. I don't think Jabba would go to another planet just to bargain with Han Solo. I think his flunkies like Greedo would, but no, Jabba would only do it i it was convenient.

Your other points I disagree with, some more than others, but this one I take exception to. the origninal screenplay? The Special Editions? Remember, while you're at it, that in the original treatment Of THE JOURNAL OF THE WHILLS, there was a fundamentally different story, a frame narrative, and a character named "Mace Windy."

I wan't talking about what best fit STAR WARS canon, but what would have made for the best movie. And I certainly wasn't talking about the as-yet nonexistent scene in Mos Eisley spaceport where Han talked to Jabba. The character arc you refer to doesn't exist without the scene you mention that apparently got cut. So all we have is a film crew out in the LA desert hoping noone's gonna notice it's all matte-painted backgrounds and not Tunisia at all.

Anyway, the original point is that Ben was wearing a robe, to make him like Gandalf in Fangorn forest, all disguised and of secret power. When Luke showed up wearing a hoodie in JEDI, suddenly STAR WARS was rewritten so that was the Jedi uniform. That, plus going back to Tatooine, serves the purpose of makingthe story smaller through repetition. This is along with all the other stuff about limited numbers of bad Jedi, Leia rather anyone else being the "other," a new death Star, and eventually - it's coming, stories stolen directly from the book of Exodus. How do I think this makes the story "smaller?" Well, it informs us right away that we won't be seeing anything new here, and frankly we don't. There is nothing new in JEDI, from Luke's look to the locations to the final conflict. It is 100% retread, well-shot and scored though it may be. To make it relevant and not so repetitive, Lucas decided to fill it with comedy instead of any new storylines. It's DIE HARD II: so-so, but nothing to hang your hat on.

Everything about the Emperor I'll answer under that other topic heading, and later.

PS: Osama bin Laden? They won't find him until they want to, man. Either he got his ass bombed out or he was never actually in Afghanistan in the first place. It's not like the Saudis would turn him in, and it's not like Bush would ask. OBL was a ruse, anyway. The longer he's actually "alive" the more the US can pretend Hussein, or anyone else he decides to attack, was secretly allied with him. Captured or declared dead he can't be used as a pretext for conflict. OBL is to Goldstein as Bush is to Big Brother.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#38 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 09:49 PM

QUOTE (Commoner @ Apr 22 2004, 09:13 PM)
The same point i was going to make about Han, too.  He shows he's tough, and even though I don't like the Jabba addition scene, the only thing it does is clarify Han's character, even if stepping on Jabba's tail was out of line, it still showed that he wasn't afraid to confront the gangster.


And it's still true... HAN SHOT FIRST!

Stepping on Jabba's tale was the photoshop workaround. Could've had somebody "conveniently walk by," and shelter our developing hero, surprised they didn't do that. George: "what do you mean 'you can't make it look real enough?'" You're right on the clarification of character, but it was better left untouched (as most will agree.) Han killing Greedo was explainable as agressive self-defense. the follow-up scene with Jabba exhibited the underdog-sort in Solo, a new character the audience could endear. He's not a bad guy. He WANTS to pay Jabba back, not shoot him. That's why the scene was written. But now it's all skewed.

Greedo shoots first, Han loses what we like from the scene.
Han steps on Jabba's tail, the mysterious Jabba the threatt becomes the best boss you ever had (as Jabba stammers off the set, muttering to himself. like the dad on Sigmund and the Sea Monsters.)
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#39 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 09:50 PM

Oh come on. Because Luke's wearing a hood it's the Jedi uniform? First of all, it's not like he's even wearing a robe, he's wearing a cloak to hide himself, and then he takes it off and he's just wearing a black (and it's black, not brown as Obi's was) jumpsuit. If anything, what luke was wearing was more to make him resemble Darth Vader than Obi-Wan Kenobi. TPM made the Jedi uniform the robe, not JEDI. I agree with a good number of your complaints about JEDI, I disagree as to how important they are, but i do realize it's not nearly a perfect movie and while I consider it great, it could've still been better. However, this one thing just is ridiculous. I don't think anyone thought in JEDI, other than you apparently, that because Luke wore a cloak like Obi-Wan, despite the fact that they were different colors and very different styles, then most Jedi wore one. It was not until TPM that we saw that Ben's old robes were the official uni of the Jedi.
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#40 User is offline   Mike Mac from NYU Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 10:26 PM

QUOTE
PS: Osama bin Laden? They won't find him until they want to, man. Either he got his ass bombed out or he was never actually in Afghanistan in the first place. It's not like the Saudis would turn him in, and it's not like Bush would ask. OBL was a ruse, anyway. The longer he's actually "alive" the more the US can pretend Hussein, or anyone else he decides to attack, was secretly allied with him. Captured or declared dead he can't be used as a pretext for conflict. OBL is to Goldstein as Bush is to Big Brother.



First a rant :angry:

I don't wanna get into a full political discusion with you though. The concept that the US knows where Osama Bin Ladin is and ludicrous for the mere fact that Dubya and his legion of doom aren't smart enough to come up with a plan that brilliant. ph34r.gif

Your points make a worse movie period, IMO. I am sorry, civilian you are a brilliant , but I along with others would probably not like the changes you have in mind for ESB, much less ROTJ.

On a gentler note.... smile.gif
I know in another forum, you mentioned my idea about "Red Zone Cuba". I appreciate and thank you for your input. My friend and I are looking into the copyrights of Red Zone Cuba. We are pretty sure that it is public domain now, however there is a possibility that Rhino Video might own the MST3K version for a period of time. I don't know if you know anythingh about that, do you?
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#41 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 10:35 PM

QUOTE (Vwing @ Apr 22 2004, 09:50 PM)
Oh come on. Because Luke's wearing a hood it's the Jedi uniform? First of all, it's not like he's even wearing a robe, he's wearing a cloak to hide himself, and then he takes it off and he's just wearing a black (and it's black, not brown as Obi's was) jumpsuit. If anything, what luke was wearing was more to make him resemble Darth Vader than Obi-Wan Kenobi. TPM made the Jedi uniform the robe, not JEDI. I agree with a good number of your complaints about JEDI, I disagree as to how important they are, but i do realize it's not nearly a perfect movie and while I consider it great, it could've still been better. However, this one thing just is ridiculous. I don't think anyone thought in JEDI, other than you apparently, that because Luke wore a cloak like Obi-Wan, despite the fact that they were different colors and very different styles, then most Jedi wore one. It was not until TPM that we saw that Ben's old robes were the official uni of the Jedi.

I tend to agree with this. I don't think the "uniform" was established until the PT. I mean fans would dress up like Obi-Wan when they wanted to play a Jedi. They would also dress in black when they wanted to represent Luke.

I think this idea just carried across for Lucas that what Ben was wearing was what all Jedi wore - thus becoming the Jedi robe. Personally, I think the concept is silly given that the way it is described that people recognise Jedi is through their carrying lightsabers not the clothes they wear.

It is a mistake of the PT, but I don't believe it is evident in Return of the Jedi.
Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter.
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#42 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 11:09 PM

Well, If *I* wanted to dress up like Luke, I'd have worn a WHITE outfit wink.gif But that was a long time ago.
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#43 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 11:13 PM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Apr 22 2004, 11:09 PM)
Well, If *I* wanted to dress up like Luke, I'd have worn a WHITE outfit wink.gif But that was a long time ago.

tongue.gif Yeah, I left that one out. I had a preference fo the Star Wars outfit also, but because I had the green lightsaber I had to go with the black costume to make it authentic. biggrin.gif
Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter.
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#44 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 01:49 PM

I thought the black costume was kick-ass, but the white one was pretty good too. When I was 5 I would dress up as both smile.gif
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#45 User is offline   Mike Mac from NYU Icon

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE
I thought the black costume was kick-ass, but the white one was pretty good too. When I was 5 I would dress up as both 



Seeing Luke in his black robes and green lightsaber fighting skiffs soldiers and swinging from a rope with Princess Leia in her slave-girl suit is one of the absolutely kicking-est parts about ROTJ that I loved. cool.gif
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