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The Prequels according to us.

#16 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 12:46 AM

Ah yes, thank you Barend! I loved your post. And my guess as to which one was the damn fool idealistic crusade was b. win the pod race. biggrin.gif

It's also funny that you should mention the possibility that maybe George forgot to watch his own movies. Whenever I think about the prequel trilogy, that exact thought is always running through my mind.

I can just imagine Lucas penning these movies...

Lucas looks out the window vacantly, trying to remember how it was that Obi Wan and Anakin met. "Ah." he chuckles, shaking his head. "Doesn't matter."

The other possibility is that Lucas may have forgetten that we have seen his old movies.
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#17 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 02:24 AM

he is trying to cover them up alot...

rather than plan his prequels properly, he'd rather just tinker with the old to erase the past...

QUOTE
Lucas looks out the window vacantly, trying to remember how it was that Obi Wan and Anakin met. "Ah." he chuckles, shaking his head. "Doesn't matter."


laugh.gif too true
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#18 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 03:21 AM

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Apr 20 2004, 03:42 AM)
I got almost all my ideas for the prequel story from the scene in Star Wars where Luke is with Obi Wan in his home on Tatooine:

Yes yes yes yes yes.

There are some things in your treatment I don't like, and frankly I think you really only have one movie and a bit worth of material, but you're on the right track. Lucas should have let STAR WARS be his inspiration for the prequels. Instead he chose JEDI.

Before anyone gets the idea that I'm about to trash JEDI again, that's not what I meant. This is what I mean: In STAR WARS we didn't know all the back story of the trilogy. So too in the prequels we should not know the backstory. They just don't play well with all that portentous shit. this little kid is so important, because we already know he's going to become Darth Vader! He casts a Darth Vader shadow! he has a high midichlorian count! Yoda (who we should never have met, by any means) is afraid of him! Blah! Blah! Blah!

It's a bunch of nonsense, and there is no sense of wonder. Lucas shoud have filled his prequel trilogy not with the stuff we knew all about by the end of JEDI, but with all the stuff that was a mystery in STAR WARS, and that is never revealed! He should have fleshed out the little story bits, rather than repeating all the stuff we already know because it is told to us later in STAR WARS-EMPIRE-JEDI. I love the idea of making Owen a character, and actually using him in the story! Maybe have Ben and Owen trapped on some desolate rock in a difficult war, where Owen is left injured and his army pension is barely enough to get him that lousy farm. Give him reason to be wary of adventure, since it never did him or Ben any good. Imagine the ficticious viewer who watches them for the first time in chronological order (which is actually not a complete impossibility, once they are all made - who here read the NARNIA books "in order?"); imagine how curious he would be to see the bitter old man that Owen had become, afetr the hero we had once known him to be! What drama!

There are a number of stories Lucas could have told that would not have been boring or seemed like filler. These prequels are all just leading up to the stuff everyone already knows all about, and everybody is just waiting to see it play out. Where's the fun in that?


Anyway - to sum up, good stuff there JYAMG. Some of it sticks in my craw, as they say, but had Lucas made that, I would probably have seen Episode II.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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Posted 21 April 2004 - 06:58 AM

Maybe we should wait till Episode III to find out if he's the best pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior. After all he's only a fucking padawan in Epi 2, how can he be the best in the galaxy and cunning with a saber at the age of 19-20?
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#20 User is offline   Ferris Wiel Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 07:09 AM

QUOTE (Guest @ Apr 21 2004, 06:58 AM)
Maybe we should wait till Episode III to find out if he's the best pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior. After all he's only a fucking padawan in Epi 2, how can he be the best in the galaxy and cunning with a saber at the age of 19-20?

When I first knew him your father was already a great pilot.

--FW
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#21 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 10:16 AM

Something I've never fully understood was the implication that Strong in the Force = Good Swordfighting / Good Piloting skills. It was never explained that the Jedi did or did not neccesarily fly or pilot rocket ships. But in the Yavin battle, it's "MTFBWY" right and left. (btw, if all the rebels start putting faith in the force, is that from a conversion experience, possibly brought on by a prophet?)

When Obi-Wan took his rocket ship to casimo or wherever, I had the feeling that it just didn't fit or feel right. (ok, obi-wan is a pilot. what else?) We don't see piloting skills as part of jedi training, other that Yoda's showing how to rescue ditched craft in Empire. What are the merit badges Jedi have to earn?
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#22 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 01:49 PM

Anakin = Anakin is a "great pilot" and a "cunning warrior" by the time Obi-Wan meets him, and I agree with that, as it is stated in ANH, but he can't be any older than Luke when Obi-Wan meets him. After all, if Anakin in TPM was "too old" and Luke in ESB was "too old," then holy-mothers-of-Murgatroyd, Anakin would be out of the question if he was already employed as a pilot and battling. He'd REALLY have to UNlearn.

Also, if he had enlisted as a soldier, wouldn't the Jedi, somebody have figured out he was strong with the Force?

I think Obi-Wan would have to find Anakin somewhat young, but definitely not as young as he was presented in TPM.

Owen = I don't like the idea of Owen as a former warrior. He's based on that stereotypical farmer who has objections about his son running off to the city, or joining the war. Owen doesn't need to be a big character, but he certainly needs to be better fleshed out than what he was in AOTC. It's sad, I don't see any of the Owen personality from ANH in the character presented in AOTC. You generally have the same personality through your whole life, Owen should've already had some issues. Like: Why don't the Jedi break up this gangster planet? Why don't they free us? Whose going to take care of the farm? smile.gif

Owen as Obi-Wan's brother: I know this was in the original script, and even in the novelisation. Yes, I say, if Lucas had intended to do this, he should've stuck with it, but it doesn't appear in ANH, which I consider canon over the script or novel. So, Owen isn't Obi-Wan's brother. I'm okay with Anakin as Owen's step-brother. Just didn't like how it was shoehorned in AOTC. And, if you remove Owen and Beru from those scenes. It would not have made one damn bit difference.

GADS, THESE MOVIES SUCK!!! I'm fuming again....

If Lucas just took a little time to think about it, or pick some fans to help him frame it out, outline, etc., it would've been better.

It would work better if Anakin had NOT been a slave. He should've been that little kid that would sneak aboard freighter ships, or have his own little homebuilt spaceship (rather than a ridiculous pod-racer), which he used in short jumps--hell, even Luke's T-13. Luke was an obedient kid who had dreams, while Anakin should've had the same dreams, but he acted on his impulses. He doesn't have to be a jerk, he's just inquisitive and adventurous.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#23 User is offline   Mike Mac from NYU Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 02:40 PM

QUOTE
Owen as Obi-Wan's brother: I know this was in the original script, and even in the novelisation. Yes, I say, if Lucas had intended to do this, he should've stuck with it, but it doesn't appear in ANH, which I consider canon over the script or novel. So, Owen isn't Obi-Wan's brother. I'm okay with Anakin as Owen's step-brother. Just didn't like how it was shoehorned in AOTC. And, if you remove Owen and Beru from those scenes. It would not have made one damn bit difference.


Actually it appears in the ROTJ script. But you are right thought.

smile.gif Although it is curious that in ANH, Owen Lars has the same the same type of 'robes' that Obi-Wan and Yoda and Anakin{ROTJ} wear. i know Lucas explained this a little in TPM script. But still it is worth noting.
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#24 User is offline   Ferris Wiel Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 03:18 PM

Hey, that reminds me:

What about the pilots in the Naboo Air Farce? These folks all looked like they were mid-forties ILM folks who just squeezed their fat asses into "flight suits" and cockpits. I mean, this is Naboo's finest? A bunch of 'puter jockeys from Burbank?

It was really stupid... and no surprise but their acting was bad, too.

--FW
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#25 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 06:53 PM

QUOTE (Ferris Wiel @ Apr 21 2004, 03:18 PM)
Hey, that reminds me:

What about the pilots in the Naboo Air Farce? These folks all looked like they were mid-forties ILM folks who just squeezed their fat asses into "flight suits" and cockpits. I mean, this is Naboo's finest? A bunch of 'puter jockeys from Burbank?

That's because they do all their training on Wing Commander and X-Wing vs Tie Fighter. There is not actual physical program to keep them fit. Just hours in front of the PC. biggrin.gif
Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter.
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#26 User is offline   Mike Mac from NYU Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 07:14 PM

QUOTE
Hey, that reminds me:

What about the pilots in the Naboo Air Farce? These folks all looked like they were mid-forties ILM folks who just squeezed their fat asses into "flight suits" and cockpits. I mean, this is Naboo's finest? A bunch of 'puter jockeys from Burbank?

It was really stupid... and no surprise but their acting was bad, too.


To be fair, it wasn't like the Rebel pilots in ANH and ESB were in such great shape. Remember Porkins {"...stay on target!!!!!"} and Hobby {snow speeder pilot in ESB}.


This brings up an interesting point I would like to share. In truth there is a military mythology that fighter pilots are the 'Top Gun" type physical specimens. I was reading a Tom Clancy book "Red Storm Rising" and in truth most fighter pilots are stocky, short and middle aged. I mean most of them are captains or majors and all they do is sit in a cockpit all the time. I mean if they were physically gifted they would be marines or army infantry.


BTW, Top Gun, while being unrealistic and complete adrenaline rush is still a movie I find interesting to watch. It has it's moments. Not a great movie, but enjoyable.
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#27 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 08:14 PM

QUOTE (Mike Mac from NYU @ Apr 21 2004, 07:14 PM)
This brings up an interesting point I would like to share. In truth there is a military mythology that fighter pilots are the 'Top Gun" type physical specimens. I was reading a Tom Clancy book "Red Storm Rising" and in truth most fighter pilots are stocky, short and middle aged. I mean most of them are captains or majors and all they do is sit in a cockpit all the time. I mean if they were physically gifted they would be marines or army infantry.

I disagree to some extent. While I'll concede the physical description most fighter pilots are required to have a very good level of fitness. It is a very physical activity controlling a machine travelling beyond the speed of sound and they have to be in good shape to maintain consciousness let alone navigate to craft. It's not some sort of jumbo jet, there are serious G-forces working on these guys.

I don't believe this applies to Star Wars however, because it is quite clear that they have eliviated the issues of G-force with their lightspeed technology. As such, they would not need to be a physically fit to fly am X-Wing for example. They would still need excellent reflexes of course.

This post has been edited by Supes: 21 April 2004 - 08:14 PM

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#28 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 09:55 PM

OWEN...

owen looks older than Anikan, he definately doesn't look 8-10 years younger than him (which he would have to be).

they showed him for no reason, other than to illustrate that he exists and already knows C3P0, an gay interpreter droid who keeps yapping...
not some one you'd forget ( one swear word is not enough to describe my anger on this one so : fscuhucinktt!!! i say).

Joel Edgerton who played him in the movie said they spent all this time getting ready (make up/ costume) for that scene, was given no information, and they did like one take, and Lucas was like yep good, that'll do. send it off to post

they never say they shit in the interviews...

that's what I like about the LOTR:EE DVDs, there a bit more honesty
(except about the time Liv Tyler refused to leave her trailer and held up filming for a few days.) had to hear about that else (but i'm not dobbing in my sorces - actors talk to other actors, and other actors talk to me smile.gif)
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#29 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 11:27 PM

QUOTE (barend @ Apr 21 2004, 09:55 PM)
(but i'm not dobbing in my sorces - actors talk to other actors, and other actors talk to me smile.gif)

Say hi to Matt for us!
Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter.
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#30 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 12:53 AM

this was someone else...

i promised chelf an interview, but mat came and went back to england, and i missed him, but we'll get his 2 cents eventually.

i'm just wating to have a good long talk about the matrix sequels...
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