[azerty]

I think you could call a pod racer a pilot, in a broad sense. For example a Formula one driver might have been a formula 3 driver once, and before that a cadete class or a junior class cart driver. (since people have been talking about go karts) Is a paraglider pilot in the same class as a commercial airline pilot, or a military jet pilot? Probably not, but paraglider pilots are pilots, none the less. Is an Olympic class dinghy sailor not a "real" sailor because she has never sailed around the world? A pod is a low altitude high speed aircraft, so a pod driver should be considered a pilot.

Anyway, the back story is the back story, we all remember the old lines in the original. Do we really need them told to us again? Every fan has more or less exactly the same opinions as to how to connect the dots; and just like any connect the dots picture (or paint by number picture), the results are almost always the same - unisnspired and juvenile. One of the biggest problems with the Star Wars universe and re-telling the back story is that it is always all far too simple. This is what I mean - sure there are a lot of dots to connect, but all the connections you want to make are totally obvious. As the connections are made, are we supposed to sit back in the cinema with our checklist and tick them off one by one? That's what bored the piss out of me in Clones!

The main thing that I dislike about the Star Wars universe is that instead of increasing in size with each movie, it does the opposite and just shrinks in on itself and becomes less and less interesting. I wish George (or who ever) would throw a huge wrench in the works and show us something that will be a total shocker.
Everybody else wants it all to be too damn predictable. I want each installment to let me know that everything I knew was wrong. I want the author to be way ahead of me, not just trying to keep pace with my own imagination. I don't need Uncle Owen to say "this is my girlfriend Beru", We already know that, for Christ sakes. What a waste of dialog.

Episode three, Fan Fiction, EU stuff will only be interesting if it kills off some main characters or else avoids them entirely. Otherwise it is just "here I sit, lonely hearted..."

[Mnesymone]

Your last three paragraphs - I agree with wholeheartedly.

Your first one - formula one and formula three are both cars - they operate on the same principles of power being produced by an engine driving the motion of wheels and steered by altering the alignment of the wheels. AS for the glider and commercial airlines - they are both flying something, but something completely different. You try maneuvering a 747 by adjusting your bodyweight and pulling on straps.
A pod is a space-age-chariot, driven largely in two dimensions, except for the occasional hill or accidentally flying up in the air and stalling - from the stall we guess its intended to be a two dimensions affair - heading forwards, and steering from side to side.
A starship operates in three dimensions, and over vast distances. Eyesight alone won't help you either - from the battle over the original death star we gather that pilots prefer using their scopes and scanners to their eyes, simply becuase human vision alone won't cut it - also you need to navigate through hyperspace...

And az - to your final thing... I hope Jar Jar dies.

[Just another wretched fan]

Your last three paragraphs - I agree with wholeheartedly.

Your first one - formula one and formula three are both cars - they operate on the same principles of power being produced by an engine driving the motion of wheels and steered by altering the alignment of the wheels. AS for the glider and commercial airlines - they are both flying something, but something completely different. You try maneuvering a 747 by adjusting your bodyweight and pulling on straps.
A pod is a space-age-chariot, driven largely in two dimensions, except for the occasional hill or accidentally flying up in the air and stalling - from the stall we guess its intended to be a two dimensions affair - heading forwards, and steering from side to side.
A starship operates in three dimensions, and over vast distances. Eyesight alone won't help you either - from the battle over the original death star we gather that pilots prefer using their scopes and scanners to their eyes, simply becuase human vision alone won't cut it - also you need to navigate through hyperspace...

And az - to your final thing... I hope Jar Jar dies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the only reason i am currently defending the pod race is due to my idea that TPM can be digitally rehabilited. It is a decent enough scene that can be used to show a dark side, force sensitivity, and quick reflex driving skills. The fighter pilot part can be introduced in the battle above Naboo. We can believe and 18 year old anakin has experience like luke did.

In a revamped Ep2, maybe Anakin could do some incredible navigational calculations iin his head while under fire.

Anyway, agreed that we don't want to connect the "this is my girlfriend, Beru" dots the way Lucas does in TPM and AOTC. But fans demand "the fossil" be paid attention to. Ideally, all dots connected should be minimal and not be screaming for attention. You should be able to have your cake (the canon) and eat it too (shocking new ideas)

[Just your average movie goer]

I think if you take too much stuff from the prequels, you're going to limit yourself, mate. And you want to keep Naboo too?

There's no need for it. It's also a really dicky name, up there with Padme (which sounds like a bra accessory), Padawan (which sounds even worse) and Midichlorians, which Mnesymone correctly pointed out sound like pool chemicals.

And for the record, I think of the pod racers as drivers, not pilots. Also, the whole chariot-engine concept is ridiculous, especially as Lucas had already ripped Ben Hurr off enough.


Azerty, I like a degree of unpredictability as much as the next man. But you can't make something that completely contradicts what went on in the original movies. These are PREquels, not SEquels. As such, they've got to fit in with what went on in the original movies.

You can still have your surprises. I think there's still plenty of freedom for the aspiring prequel writer. But you can't just change Anakin into a little kid who races pods and have a galaxy that looks nothing like the one in the original films.

Although, I heartily agree with your point that Lucas' galaxy is getting smaller and smaller. Everyone knows everyone else, Boba Fett's Dad started the clone wars, Threepio is Luke's brother, the Emperor is Han's uncle, Chewbacca went to high school with Yoda...

Lucas has turned a vast galaxy into a small country town and it's ridiculous.

[Despondent]

I'm still amazed that people have the energy to create an "acceptable" alternative backstory to make up for Lucas' inept portrayal.

But I admire your persistence. And maybe one day I'll work up one of my own.

This post has been edited by Despondent: 26 April 2005 - 11:07 PM

[Just another wretched fan]

I think if you take too much stuff from the prequels, you're going to limit yourself, mate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agreed. I was looking at TPM with the idea that it could be fixed. I suppose that ideally an entirely different movie should have been made, but at the same time TPM showed a lot of potential. Potential it didn't live up to.

And you want to keep Naboo too?

It's also a really dicky name, up there with Padme (which sounds like a bra accessory), Padawan (which sounds even worse) and Midichlorians, which Mnesymone correctly pointed out sound like pool chemicals.

I just refer to it by its given name to avoid confusion. Yeah, its a stupid name.

And for the record, I think of the pod racers as drivers, not pilots.  Also, the whole chariot-engine concept is ridiculous, especially as Lucas had already ripped Ben Hurr off enough.

true, but define rip off, wasn't ANH a rip off of Hidden Fortress?

This post has been edited by Just another wretched fan: 26 April 2005 - 11:22 PM

[CowboyCurtis]

I've seen Hidden Fortress, and the similarities are vague at best, only very general things are taken from it for ANH... a princess on the run, a rogue warrior (Jedi) aiding her, two doltish farmers (droids) who are kind of along for the ride, and an arrival at the "hidden fortress." That's about it.

I was thinking of using some "Hidden Fortress" ideas for my AOTC (renamed "The Clone Wars") rewrite. All in good time.

In general, I really hate the idea of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Lucas has some good concepts, but they just need to be tempered, hammered out.

O well. I'll get to it all someday.

EDIT May I add that why didn't Lucas "hold on" to ideas like he had done before. There were ideas in ROTJ which he kept out because of constraints of time, money, etc., and then he used them later on in other projects, i.e. the Wuzzle (or whatever it's called) for the Special Edition, the monsters he had in mind for Endor, but used in the Ewok Adventures, the flying creatures he intended for Bespin, but used in AOTC... Why couldn't he have held back Jar Jar, the arena battle, etc., things like that, and combined it into an entirely wholey separate film.... a film just for kids! That's what he wanted, right? Make the first Star Wars for the Star Wars crowd, those who want a little more meat with their potatoes, and then create an entirely CGI movie starring Jar Jar Binks which isn't even part of the GFFA----a whole new franchise. We SW fans could've ignored and the little kiddies would've loved it. We may have liked it on it's own merits, too; as long as it wasn't a part of SW.

Again, Lucas not knowing when to quit, or how to use his ideas in the proper venue.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 27 April 2005 - 12:28 AM

[ernesttomlinson]

I'm sure I've mentioned before my idea that Lucas threw in a knowing reference in STAR WARS to the Kurosawa film.

"Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped to conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebel's hidden fortr--" *choke*

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."

[Just your average movie goer]

I think the difference in ripping off the Hidden Fortress and ripping off Ben Hurr is that when Lucas ripped off the Hidden Fortress, we got a good movie out of it. Because of that, I've got no complaints.

But when he ripped off Ben Hurr, we got an entire film plot developed around setting up that silly race and ended up with The Phantom Menace.

[Helena]

I think you could call a pod racer a pilot, in a broad sense.

NO. Besides, like I said, he's described as a 'star pilot' in the OT.

As for having our prequel ideas being 'predictable', the problem is that we already know most of the main plot elements: Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, Palpatine becoming Emperor, the Clone Wars, the destruction of the Republic and the Jedi Order... That's the problem with making prequels - there's not really much room for a 'total shocker' that could plausibly have been excluded from the OT. All the 'new' things that Lucas introduced - Midichlorians, prophecies about a Chosen One, Anakin as a 9-year-old - simply ended up making the films look inconsistent (besides being really stupid ideas in the first place). I'd far rather see a prequel that 'joined the dots' in a sensible and plausible manner than one that barely even appears to take place in the same universe as the OT.

[CowboyCurtis]

NO. Besides, like I said, he's described as a 'star pilot' in the OT.

Damn straight... a STAR pilot. Gushers have selective observation.

[Just another wretched fan]

NO. Besides, like I said, he's described as a 'star pilot' in the OT.

Damn straight... a STAR pilot.  Gushers have selective observation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

look, you guys know i'm not a gusher, i was just sticking up for the scene b/c it does have some value. There are many different kinds of skills involved in piloting. Besides controlling the vehicle there is navigation and, if you're military, dogfighting skills. The Pod race can establish one of the skill sets, enough to completel the fossil and allow for another scene that shows the star part of star pilot.

[CowboyCurtis]

Okay, I'm going to sound like I'm doing a 180, but I'm not. I could be forgiving of the pod race if:

1) It was shorter... if we only saw the very end of it, Anakin (older) blowing by Sebulba (who doesn't even need to be named, etc.), and winning the race. That's all we need. It would show (as JAWF says) one of his skills, and then

2) We move onto his next skill, i.e. flying, piloting. This is why in my scripts, the pilot is killed and Obi-Wan and the Queen need one, so they ask Anakin to fill in. Anakin would show his skills in their flight to Coruscant, evading enemy, displaying his skills as a star pilot.

That's the only way I would accept the pod race.

[Mnesymone]

"true, but define rip off, wasn't ANH a rip off of Hidden Fortress?"

A New Hope drew from a lot of A-grade film material. Hidden Fortress is prominent to it - it has the untried hero tones of Lord of the Rings, the assault on the Death Star is remarkably similar, in some cases line-for-line to the Dambusters. It was not a rip off. It was an original blend of traditional elements. It could be said, in parts, to be an homage to Hidden Fortress - the droids, the death star etc.

The Pod Race was a clear rip-off of Ben Hurr - the very design of the pods was clearly chariot. The lap counter, Sebulba's antics - all this is a DIRECT PARAPHRASIS of the chariot race.

As per pilot - he is a star pilot, not a pod racer or even an atmospheric pilot.

The nine-year old boy of immaculate conception is not Anakin Skywalker. Nor is the nineteen year old boy with severe emotional dysfunction. It remains to be seen if Anakin is Anakin in the final movie.
And if he does not do some fighter flying in it - the pod race will not be vindicated. The last defence of the pod race is that it set up Anakin's skills - if we do not see this later on, the scene will be a nothing scene, defenseless and irredeemable.

[Just another wretched fan]

agreed.