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Yoda vs. Palpatine vs. Dumbledore vs. Voldemort How Harry Potter's Great Wizards Outperform Star Wars's Great

#1 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 12:46 PM

Warning: This article contains very minor spoilers about a book from four years ago and a movie from two years ago. It's extremely unlikely you'd choose to read this article without having already read/seen these but consider yourself warned.

This weekend I caught a matinee of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. At the end there is a climactic battle between Dumbledore and Voldemort. The battle is staged as a duel between two wizards but as an extremely unrealistic battle it still appears realistic. The realistic thing about it is that there appears to be a struggle. It is played off like a wrestling match with the two wizards struggling against one another in a cautiously offensive battle.

This struck me as a stark contrast to the two main battles we see Yoda fight in the Star Wars films. I know this may come as a surprise to some but I'm not a huge fan of the Star Wars prequels. I was greatly disappointed by Yoda using a lightsaber for the first time in Attack of the Clones and later in Revenge of the Sith. Yoda's two battles are extremely showy, staging unnecessary lightsaber flourishes and acrobatics that don't appear to have any relation to each other.

Yoda's battle with Dooku, and also Palpatine, aren't struggles, they're dance offs.

What they really seemed to master in Order of the Phoenix is how two extremely powerful magic users (whether they're using wizardry or The Force) would really battle if they encountered each other. There's a sense of struggle that doesn't exist with Yoda and his foes. Yoda just screams like a rabid muppet and does a series of flips that seem more like they're there to distract the viewer rather than defeat his foe. Dumbledore and Voldemort's battle (using several elemental forces) flows much more naturally. It's shorter, quicker and dirtier like a real battle would be.

One the downsides to watching the recently concluded Tour de France is catching a lot of the Versus channel's other programming which generally involves either shooting deer, catching bass or two guys kicking the crap out of each other. That latter, Ultimate Fighting, is interesting in a way because the battle shows the fighters and their strategic decisions. They don't ever do an unnecessary flip or movement. They're usually evenly matched and they look for strategic moments to strike at their opponent. That's the root of the problem with Yoda and Palpatine. Yoda's never flipping to avoid a strike or to make a strike, he's flipping because it would look cool at that particular moment.

Ultimate fighters don't care about what looks cool. Neither do Dumbledore and Voldemort.

Maybe Yoda and Palpatine should start a dance troupe.
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#2 User is offline   Storm Icon

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 02:01 PM

I was under the impression that Yoda did all the flipping because he was incapable of walking a distance of 1.0 m in less than 20 seconds. Why somebody would find it easier to flip in moving from point A to B instead of walking or running is a question that defies human comprehension.

This post has been edited by Storm: 30 July 2007 - 02:04 PM

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 02:24 PM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jul 30 2007, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This weekend I caught a matinee of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. At the end there is a climactic battle between Dumbledore and Voldemort... It is played off like a wrestling match with the two wizards struggling against one another in a cautiously offensive battle... This struck me as a stark contrast to the two main battles we see Yoda fight in the Star Wars films... Yoda's battle with Dooku, and also Palpatine, aren't struggles, they're dance offs... Ultimate fighters don't care about what looks cool. Neither do Dumbledore and Voldemort.


Actually, the director hired a dance instructor to help teach the cast the moves they would make when summoning each spell. So, really, the entire battle between Dumbledore and Voldemort really is just a dance-off. wink.gif
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Posted 11 September 2007 - 10:46 PM

Excellent post. The duel in Order of the Phoenix (and the fighting in movies like The Bourne Ultimatum) is truly thrilling because it is straightforward, intense and brutal; in other words, exactly the opposite of what we see in the second two prequels. Duel of the Fates was the last great fight scene in Star Wars.

This post has been edited by Commodore: 11 September 2007 - 10:47 PM

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 02:37 AM

QUOTE (Bond @ Jul 30 2007, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, the director hired a dance instructor to help teach the cast the moves they would make when summoning each spell. So, really, the entire battle between Dumbledore and Voldemort really is just a dance-off. wink.gif

You missed the point.
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Posted 12 September 2007 - 04:34 PM

Whatever the case i agree with Chelf
There are like, numerous facial exp​ressions
and emotions on display in the battle between
Dumbledore and Voldermort that are cleary missing
from both of Yoda's fights.

Sure Yoda isn't real, but in the prequels (save TPM)
the animators go through all the trouble of
giving him gratutious CGI 'acting shots'
in which he frowns or moves the wisps
of gray hair on his head.

They focused on the wrong aspects
Yoda's fight is suppose to be a huge
cinematic moment in history
instead it leaves the audience confused, annoyed,
and in some cases probably a little amused.

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 07:46 PM

I'm just upset that we got to see yoda fighting (which was about was as high on my list as seeing whinney the poo have sex) twice, and saw the red guards fight NEVER.

I mean, the only way you can justify yoda walking around with a walking stick in one shot then sonic-the-hedghoging dracula in the next is if he uses the walking cane as a weapon.

Also, and I'm sure njammila will back me up if he shows up, twirling swords is really just for building momentum to increase the damage done by the blow or on occasion to block. Twirling lightsabres seems really, really, unneccessary. except when captain Cough-a-lot does it.
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