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The Iraqi Strategy Problems and Solutions

#16 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:21 AM

Damn, you have a point Jordan. Ok, so one exception.

And Civ, I'm not indicating it's purely about race, certainly it's about money and power too, but racism plays a part in it. Our imperialism is just a new form of the same stuff the British empire was doing, and racism excuses some of it, the belief that some people are too backwards to pick their own leaders was one held by the English in India, and one espoused by Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger during their conversations about the election of Salvador Allende.

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#17 User is offline   Cobnat Icon

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 04:59 AM

QUOTE (Bond @ Aug 28 2007, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And look what happened there... dry.gif


They…won?

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Aug 28 2007, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As good a point as I've ever seen from you. No, I don't suppose that in terms of lives, property and leaders lost the Muslims are winning. But if they get the US forces to retreat that's a victory even though the Iraqi people will have clearly lost. I don't know, do you think it would be better if they just cooperated with the imperialists and became a US puppet, or if they keep fighting losing untold thousands of lives just to preserve their national dignity? Personally I'd keep fighting.


That being said, the United States is not under occupation and you don’t have people dying outside your doorstep day in and day out.

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Aug 28 2007, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not since the war of eighteen twelve has the US willingly gone to war with a caucasian nation. It's much more fun commiting genocide against people who are inferior to you. It started with the Indians and Africans, then the Vietnamese and Latinos, and now it's Muslims. The fundamental reasoning behind these unwarranted aggressions is imperialism, but these pigs recognize their own kind.


Hey; stop insulting pigs!

QUOTE (Jordan @ Aug 28 2007, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
we bombed serbs. they're white and christian.

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Aug 29 2007, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Damn, you have a point Jordan. Ok, so one exception.


Two exceptions; the Serbs were bombed twice. Personally I think the U.S is against everyone who isn’t a white, rich, protestant man. This also reminds me of a paragraph I once read by Nebojsa Malic:

“The greatest trick the Empire [the United States government] ever pulled in the Balkans was convincing its feuding nations it was on their side. In truth, though it sometimes tends to play favorites, the Empire has no friends, only servants and victims.”

This post has been edited by Cobnat: 29 August 2007 - 05:01 AM

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#18 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:31 PM

QUOTE
That being said, the United States is not under occupation and you don’t have people dying outside your doorstep day in and day out.



I hadnt noticed. But it's a personal preference. Some people would rather die or starve than see their country languish under foreign occupation, whereas some people would submit just to live in peace. You really can't blame those that don't want to get into it and just live their lives, but I can easily see why resistance is necessary.

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#19 User is offline   Cobnat Icon

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 10:41 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Aug 29 2007, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hadnt noticed. But it's a personal preference. Some people would rather die or starve than see their country languish under foreign occupation, whereas some people would submit just to live in peace. You really can't blame those that don't want to get into it and just live their lives, but I can easily see why resistance is necessary.


Explain to me why you do not pick up a gun and fight then? Is it because there is nothing to fight against in the United States? Is it because there is a lack of guns? Is it because you don’t how to use a firearm?
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#20 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 01:03 PM

You ask why it would be foolish to assault the government at this stage in its decline, a question quite well answered in Dr. Guevara's works, and then you claim he's had no influence on the modern day revolutionary movement.

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#21 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Aug 30 2007, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
a question quite well answered in Dr. Guevara's works


He stole his tactics from the Goths and the Huns; simple. wink.gif

Also, if Guevara's a doctor, then so is Mr. Seuss. dry.gif
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#22 User is offline   Cobnat Icon

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 03:38 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Aug 30 2007, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You ask why it would be foolish to assault the government at this stage in its decline, a question quite well answered in Dr. Guevara's works, and then you claim he's had no influence on the modern day revolutionary movement.


Please; Guerrilla tactics and strategies existed hundreds of years before Guevara. As for the decaying government; the United States government is decaying but unless there is armed resistance then I doubt it will fall within the next hundred years without massive repercussions on the civilian populace. Do your people a favour and revolt.

QUOTE (Bond @ Aug 30 2007, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He stole his tactics from the Goths and the Huns; simple. wink.gif


And everyone stole their ideas from Sun-Tzu.

This post has been edited by Cobnat: 30 August 2007 - 03:55 PM

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#23 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 06:18 PM

QUOTE (Cobnat @ Aug 30 2007, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And everyone stole their ideas from Sun-Tzu.


Sorry, Cobnat, but you're wrong; the Goths never heard of either Sun-Tzu or his tactics. The Huns, however, having come from some uncertain land in Asia, might have... unsure.gif

As for Guevara, he was (to make an analogy of things) John the Baptist to Castro's Jesus. wink.gif
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#24 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 06:22 PM

I think he was using something, hyperbole or some other big word. He didn't actually mean every one read Sun-Tzu.
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#25 User is offline   Cobnat Icon

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 08:14 PM

QUOTE (Bond @ Aug 30 2007, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry, Cobnat, but you're wrong; the Goths never heard of either Sun-Tzu or his tactics. The Huns, however, having come from some uncertain land in Asia, might have... unsure.gif

As for Guevara, he was (to make an analogy of things) John the Baptist to Castro's Jesus. wink.gif

QUOTE (Jordan @ Aug 30 2007, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think he was using something, hyperbole or some other big word. He didn't actually mean every one read Sun-Tzu.


Give the man a cigar!
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#26 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 09:57 PM

QUOTE
He stole his tactics from the Goths and the Huns; simple.


Yes yes, and he stole the idea of freeing people from oppression from George Washington, and he stole the idea of becoming a doctor of medicine from Hypocrates. If you're just going to mindlessly argue against anything Che Guevara did there's really little point continuing this.

QUOTE
Also, if Guevara's a doctor, then so is Mr. Seuss.


I'm not going to even rebut yet another baseless slander. You can either do some research and find out why that's a dipshit statement, or continue your ignorant assertions and continue to be a dipshit. Either way is fine for me. You can argue ethics or wether he succeeded, but claiming that he, what, STOLE a medical degree and then faked working in a leper colony and then pretended to be the medical officer of Castro's band, that takes a disdain for facts that would be frowned upon anywhere but in the Bush cabinet.

Cobnat- You stole the idea of making analogies from... uhhh... the guy who had the idea to make analogies.

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#27 User is offline   Cobnat Icon

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 06:35 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Aug 30 2007, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cobnat- You stole the idea of making analogies from... uhhh... the guy who had the idea to make analogies.


No shit; I learn from the best which happen to be the first.

My point is though that people like Guevara and Mao got most of their ideas from Ancient Strategists like Sun-Tzu. Guevara did not bring anything new to the world of war and politics.
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#28 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 08:03 AM

QUOTE (Cobnat @ Aug 31 2007, 06:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Guevara did not bring anything new to the world of war and politics.


Agreed; he tagged up with Castro to be his lackey. Basically, he was Castro's vizier (spelling?), if you will. wink.gif
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#29 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 11:07 AM

Che Guevara was handsome, strong, educated, and passionate. I think thats why people loved the guy. His tale is romantic.

But the people who support Che and the likes of him often denounce everything the US has done in the last 50 years.

I saw a picture of a guy wearing that famous shirt with Che's picture on it. He was in a rally to close down Guantanamo. Thing is, Che used much worse tactics, he was the over-seer of Castro's execution squad.

If you denounce the US for barbarism, then you can't support Che's cause. You can denounce the US for being rich and greedy or whatever, but not for being butchers.

As for tactics, Che wrote a few books on Guerilla Warefare and studied it well. He taught farmers and common men how to be fight battles. So he wasn't a hack. He took theory and put it to use, and in the process made up his own theory, which is published now.

I don't hate the man or even hold it against him, I think torture and the likes of it are common in war, a natural extention of it. Only douche liberal hippies actually cry about this shit. Which Che was not. I wouldn't support him simply because I don't belive in his marxist theories.

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#30 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 02:01 PM

Wow, Jordan; you've done your studies. blush.gif

As for me, I'm not a big fan of people who trounce on others' liberties, so Guevara isn't a guy I'd exactly have tea and biscuits with... unsure.gif

This post has been edited by Bond: 31 August 2007 - 02:02 PM

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