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After the dust has settled. The long-term impact of the prequels.

#1 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 08:49 PM

Well, the prequel trilogy is finished and has been now for a while. Now, that all that hype is dying away, I thought it might be interesting to share our ideas on how we think 'Star Wars' has been affected in the long run.

For me, I'm in the fortunate position that I can enjoy the original movies the way I always have - since I got the DVDs with the original films. Sure, they weren't restored in any way but they still look great. Personally, I think that's fantastic when you think about it - I mean, Lucas completely shafted these films, hoping that we would be turned off by them and instead, they just continue to dazzle, amaze and stand out on the cinema landscape (I'm not including 'Return of the Jedi' here of course - that just looks worse and worse with each subsequent viewing).

I am a little bothered by the effect it has had on some of the 'Star Wars' literature. Some of you probably know that I am a huge fan of Timothy Zahn's 'Star Wars' novels as I have been raving about them in another thread. Well, one of his novels was set just before the clone wars and since the prequels were out by the time he wrote it, it suffered because of it. Now I am sure Zahn had envisioned something slightly different when he had first conceived of that particular novel and I think it's a shame that we'll never get to see what that was.

As for the prequels themselves, they weren't a cultural phenomen like 'Star Wars' was. They were a fad like Pokemon was. Don't believe me? Consider this - the original 'Star Wars' trilogy was played on television every year when I was growing up and the nights these movies were on were stay-at-home nights. People would talk excitedly the day before and then they'd gossip about them afterwards as if they'd only just seen them. Whereas with the prequels, they're already largely forgotten by the wider community. However, this does bring me to my next point, regarding 'Star Wars' as a cultural phenomen.

In the past, like I said, 'Star Wars' was such a phenomen. However, I believe the prequels may have ruined this by tainting the good name of the original movies. A lot of people in the future will probably get their first exposure to 'Star Wars' through a prequel because of the new ordering system (you know; EPISODE I, II, III, IV, V and VI). And if they think that "The Phantom Menace" is representative of 'Star Wars', they are not going to stick around for the original 'Star Wars' ('EPISODE IV' in Lucas speak).

The other problem is all the revisionist changes that were made to the original movies. Even though it's possible to see the unaltered versions for some of us, for a lot of people, the experience has been too off-putting. Also, if the originals appear on television these days, they are invariably the altered versions - so gone are the stay-at-home-'cause-Star-Wars-is-on-TV nights. Old fans sit down to watch the films with fond feelings of nostalgia... then they see Greedo shooting first and a CGI Jabba and they think "What the hell is this?".

I think all of this will really affect the original films in a bad way because people in the future aren't going to want to watch them. And that's a real pity. These films should be passed down from generation to generation. Although, I guess if any of us have kids, we'll probably show them. My kid would probably ask me "What happens after 'The Empire Strikes Back'?" and I'd say "Well, you see, they never actually got around to making the next movie." Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

The last problem is where does the prequels leave us as 'Star Wars' fans? When I was a kid, I also told people I loved 'Star Wars'. Nowadays, it's just so much more difficult and I have to use a whole lot of qualifiers afterwards...

"Oh, well, you see... when I say I like 'Star Wars', I mean there was a film made in 1977... "

Boy, it was a lot more simple in the past.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 17 August 2007 - 08:49 PM

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:42 PM

So certain are you? mellow.gif

I still love Star Wars. Even if most shaft the prequels, I love them just for their scores; so epic, so powerful. wink.gif

Now, is the Zahn novel you're referring to Outbound Flight?
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Posted 18 August 2007 - 07:25 AM

Sorry for double-posting. I just re-read this and I just have to apologise for the appalling grammar errors.
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Posted 18 August 2007 - 02:31 PM

Wow, another great post. Might have to say "welcome back."

I think part of the reason STAR WARS was such a cultural phenomenon was that when it played on tv, home video was a new thing and not a lot of places had it. Video stores wanted a membership fee, folks uncertain about the use of the technology actually rented VCRs from stores, and stores had low volume of a lot of films anyway, so you might not be able to find STAR WARS if you wanted it. The prospect of buying it was a serious consideration; when a McDonald's value meal ran about $3.50, a $20 videotape was a real committment (On the other hand, rental fees were relatively low, and of course one rental could entertain a lot of people; my parents were prescient enough to see that this meant cheap family entertainment and we had a VCR fairly early. But that's another thing). So getting back to it, watching movies on tv was always a big deal. We would notice when a movie had made it to tv. Nowadays noone much cares when a movie makes it to tv; by then it's already been on DVD, then the pay-per-views, movie channels, etc. The network premiere isn't usually noticed.

I won't try to deny however that STAR WARS was a huge phenomenon. It's not even worth arguing that it changed the way movies were made, what sorts of movies got made, and certainly how movies were marketed (although a lot of that last bit owed more to JAWS and THE EXORCIST). Folks talked about the films right after they came out, indicating that basically everyone rushed out to see them within their first week. And they talked about them for years. I don't know a lot of people who rushed out to see the prequels in their opening weeks, and no one talked about them without some derision. No one I know, I mean. And apart from us frothing online nerds, folks sure didn't talk about the prequels for years.

Changing the original trilogy to clean up effects is one thing, but Lucas's blustering about how he'd always intended for Greedo to shoot first is just the ramblings of an ol man who's gone a little funny in the head. It must be weird having everyone always agree with you, and never having an adult discussion with anyone for like 20 years; I'd liken it to the sort of bubble Michael Jackson's been inabiting for the past 45 years or so. I agree that Lucas Grinchingly tried to destroy the OT, only to find that the hoos in hooville enjoyed them after all. They enjoyed them without flying robots, without unnecessary cgi creatures, without plot changes and total up-front exposition (yes, I'm talking about Jabba). The oddest thing is he stubbornly thinks he can dictate why this is. He's always on interview shows saying "the OT fans like this or that because..." and then he goes on to name some motivation alien to the way anyone actually thinks. There's zero evidence he's ever asked a fan for any sort of clarification, or even that he's just looked for the answers anonymously on the Internet. He's got the weirdest justifications for his changes, followed by the lamest second-guess answers for the backlash.

Anyway, for "cultural phenomenon," that's harder to do now. Movie marketing is so relentless that by the time the opening weekend is up, the studio is already working on its next big promotion. Stuff fades a lot faster. That said, some films have still managed to capture the popular imagination for longer than expected, none of them STAR WARS movies. I'm referring to TITANIC, PULP FICTION, THE MATRIX, and nothing else comes to the top of my head. All of those films got a lot of talk and really got people excited about movies. The prequels made money but lacking any memorable characters or narrative purpose, they were forgotten.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#5 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 07:21 PM

Thanks for the welcome, Civilian.

You know, you're quite right about VCRs and the prospect of buying videos back in the eighties. Now, that I think about it, I can remember it well. Whereas these days, it's not uncommon for people to have a huge DVD collection at home - and there's also cable TV and things like that to contend with as well. The funny thing is I don't think DVDs are any cheaper than the old video cassettes.

So perhaps had "Star Wars" been released in more recent times, it may have received a different type of reception. There aren't too many films I can think of that I would watch as many times as I have watched 'Star Wars'. A lot of that's probably nostalgia, I guess.

The other thing that surprises me about 'Star Wars' and 'The Empire Strikes Back' is that there haven't really been any comparable science fiction movies to them yet. I've seen many attempts but they've always failed. I don't know why but movie makers these days seem to have great difficulty in making rollicking adventure films. They're either too bland, take themselves too seriously or are just plain shoddy.

As to the difficulty of making a cultural phenomen, I agree with you that it's hard with the marketing aspect - particularly as movie studios really only concentrate on the opening weekend. A lot of it however comes down to laziness and a lack of inspiration on the part of the studios. I think there are too many mediocre movies being churned out and it's very wasteful - particularly in this day and age. When we should be conserving resources, how can we justify the fact that Roy Schneider movies not only get filmed but are reproduced on vast numbers of DVDs, packaged and shipped all around the world - just so they can gather dust in K-mart stores? What a waste of time, plastic and any other natural resource that was used in the process.

I honestly think movies should be an experience to remember - or they shouldn't be made. I mean, it takes time and money and quite a lot of people to put one of these things together so why not make something special?

Now, getting back to the idea of making a cultural phenomen (you'll see those last few paragraphs actually have a purpose), if movie studios slowed down a bit and thought about making something worthwhile (besides a quick buck), they might have a shot at it. Now, it must be pointed out here that even if every movie was great and was well thought out, they wouldn't all become cultural phenomens. I can think of a lot of movies I really love that are like that. 'Groundhog Day' for instance, is one of my all-time favourite films. It's very intelligent, funny and just a lovely movie all round. But it's not a cultural phenomen, nor would I ever expect it to be.

I think the cultural phenomen movie has to be big or epic. By epic, I mean akin to "Lawrence of Arabia" or "Zulu" - not to be confused with trash like "Troy" or that shaky-cam job that was "Alexander".

I think three films achieved this recently - and I'm talking about "The Lord of the Rings" films. Unfortunatley, they probably won't stand up to the definition of cultural phenomen because they were adaptations of something that already was. However, they delivered the type of cinematic experience that had all the right ingredients.

They were movies that virtually everyone had to see. If you could see them on their opening days, you felt mighty pleased with yourself. When you did see them, they were quite unlike anything you'd seen before - and after you saw them, you just had to go and tell everyone else to see them.

So that's what it takes. If someone can do an original film like those movies, they'd have a winner. Also, if movie studios put more passion into their projects instead of just concentrating on their marketing department and their wallets, they might find that they're actually better off in the long run. More people would go back to the cinemas (whereas these days, with high prices and generally unappealing films, cinema patronage is on the decline). Additionally, if these people really like the movies they see, they may just come back to see them again.

That's probably a little off the topic of 'Star Wars' but to bring it back in, if 'Star Wars' was released today, I think it would achieve the things I outlined above.

And Civilian, regarding Lucas on the changes to the original movies, I'd say you've hit the nail on the head with your analogy to Michael Jackson's bubble of isolation. Lucas is just so out of touch, you almost have to worry about him. It seems that when he is prattling on about his changes, the lights are on but nobody's home.

Actually, I wonder if he ever explained this change:

When the stormtroopers search the Falcon after it is brought onboard the Death Star, they can't find anyone and as they meet up at the top of the ramp, one of them gives a shrug - and then they leave the ship. For some unfathomable reason on the new DVD version, when they meet at the top of the ramp, one of them now says "There's no-one here."

This blind-sided me because I don't think Chefelf mentioned it in the list of changes. Although perhaps it provided some necessary clarification for all those viewers who thought the stormtroopers had decided that instead of looking for rebels, it'd be more fun to go back to their quarters and play cards.

Actually, what's really strange is that a lot of changes that really irritated me were additional sounds. They were everywhere.

And hey, Bond. I didn't see your post when I was writing my apology about all the subject/verb disagreements and other atrocities I had written.

Just to be clear, I LOVE 'Star Wars' too. I just wish it wasn't necessary for me to have to clarify that statement these days.

As for the prequels, they bear the 'Star Wars' moniker but I don't consider them 'Star Wars' and I never will - so of course, they don't affect my feelings about 'Star Wars'. However, they've harmed the series a lot - and with the alterations to the original movies, they've harmed them a lot too (even if we can still see the original versions of them). So that's what this thread was about really. It was assessing the damage, so to speak.

And yes, the Zahn novel I was referring to was "Outbound Flight". I imagine Zahn found it quite painful having to type in the name "Darth Sidious" because I am sure that wasn't part of his original plan.

On the other hand though, the way the prequels were incorporated and paid out on at the same time was pretty cool.

I quite liked it when one character said. "You know, these ceilings are pretty low. I reckon a gungan would have a bit of trouble trying to get around in here."

- to which another character replied. "Oh, we wouldn't allow gungans in here. Clumsy things."

Brilliant. And Thrawn mopping the floor with the arrogant Trade Federation was just great fun.
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Posted 18 August 2007 - 07:52 PM

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Aug 18 2007, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And hey, Bond. I didn't see your post when I was writing my apology about all the subject/verb disagreements and other atrocities I had written.


That's all right, MG. wink.gif

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Aug 18 2007, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just to be clear, I LOVE 'Star Wars' too. I just wish it wasn't necessary for me to have to clarify that statement these days.


Well, that's quite understandable, considering how many people get confused when you mention Star Wars to them and they say, "Ooh, you're a dork!" sad.gif

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Aug 18 2007, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for the prequels, they bear the 'Star Wars' moniker but I don't consider them 'Star Wars' and I never will - so of course, they don't affect my feelings about 'Star Wars'. However, they've harmed the series a lot - and with the alterations to the original movies, they've harmed them a lot too (even if we can still see the original versions of them). So that's what this thread was about really. It was assessing the damage, so to speak.


Well, I never said I liked the Prequels themselves -- just their scores. Really big, beautiful, and, overall, a great enhancement to the films. smile.gif

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Aug 18 2007, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And yes, the Zahn novel I was referring to was "Outbound Flight". I imagine Zahn found it quite painful having to type in the name "Darth Sidious" because I am sure that wasn't part of his original plan.


Well, seeing as his original plan for the Thrawn Trilogy followed a mad clone of Obi-Wan from the Clone Wars instead of Joruus C'baoth... unsure.gif

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Aug 18 2007, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
On the other hand though, the way the prequels were incorporated and paid out on at the same time was pretty cool.


Really? smile.gif

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Aug 18 2007, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I quite liked it when one character said. "You know, these ceilings are pretty low. I reckon a gungan would have a bit of trouble trying to get around in here."

- to which another character replied. "Oh, we wouldn't allow gungans in here. Clumsy things."

Brilliant. And Thrawn mopping the floor with the arrogant Trade Federation was just great fun.


Holy crud, sounds like devilish good fun. devil.gif
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#7 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 10:15 AM

Yes, Welcome back. These forums have been quiet of late. No one left but Bond on his rocking chair, ready to tell the rare surfer passing by (in old geezer accent) "Yep, Sonny! Once this was the most popular Star Wars BBS in the galaxy"

The impact of the prequels: They've let the air out of the franchise. The backlash you see here is mostly those who were kids when the OT came out. To the younger generation, I'd say their reaction is "yeah, whatever." There's so much else out there these days which is far better than the PT (and yep, even some of the OT). Sci-fi series are a dime a dozen (I don't watch much these days, but eg. Babylon 5 seemed pretty good?). We've had some impressive movies the like original Matrix, the LOTR series. And there are now masses of anime available, some of it far surpassing anything PT: http://animesuki.com (my tip: The Berserk Anime)

A nice thing about Anime: Often they'll just make a single season. Rarely they will make two. And that's it! Everyone congratulates themselves, and go on to other projects. The series ends on a high. (I'm not a Pokemon fan, but DYK there have only ever been two series, the second only just made? The franchise is still very much alive, and using it sparingly and well may be why it's still here.)

The Prequels could have put a revitalized the franchise. They didn't. The opposite of love isn't hate. It's ambivalence. The OT were (mostly) milestones. The PT, looking back, I really couldn't care less. Very disappointed at the time, but there is so much else out there. And do we really need there to be 32 Star Wars movies? Let's call it quits at 3 I say, savor those fond memories, and move on.

Lucas is very out of touch, but he's got the sycophantic Force.net to tell him everything he ever said, did and thought was on the money. If he was to pump out more Star Wars movies, they'd see them and so would a risk-averse public if there's nothing else good in the cinemas at that time. I'll admit I'd hire them our of curiosity, but only on DVD dollar discount night. Problem for Lucas is: That's his best case scenario!

It's an opportunity lost. The PT could have been so much more, and even if Lucas did better on his next movies, the franchise is so deflated it'll never be what it could have been. Personally I'd rather he didn't make any more. Like, it's over.
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#8 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:16 PM

Oh, I'm with you on that. We didn't need more movies. The "Star Wars" trilogy was a completely self-contained package. Like you, I was just disappointed when they said there would be more movies and then they turned out to be such trash.

However, while I really don't care about those abominations anymore, they really cheapened the "Star Wars" image and I think a lot of people who don't really know "Star Wars" well are going to associate the old movies (which we love) with the new movies (which we hate). *Although, now my attitude about the new movies has now turned into ambivalence, like you said.

To tell you the truth, I think you've put it as well as anybody could when you said that the prequels have let the air out of the franchise. Instead of being able to age gracefully in the movie hall of fame, the "Star Wars" trilogy has been pulled down, repeatedly mucked around with and put back on the wall with its frame all cracked.

What's really tragic is that if Lucas really wanted to revitalise the franchise, it would have been the easiest thing possible. After DVDs became popular, many people were waiting for when their favourite trilogy was going to be released on the new format. All Lucas had to do was release a crisp restored version of his original movies then everyone would have been happy and "Star Wars" would be back in the public consciousness again for a little while (and in a positive way). I wonder if he'll ever realise how badly he has mangled it.

With regards to your comments about science fiction shows and movies, I know there are a lot out there - but I've never found anything as exhilirating as "Star Wars" was. Some of them are quite compelling, that's true. However, in my experience, theses shows and movies have felt more like dramas than adventures. They also feel confined and somewhat claustrophobic in comparison. I haven't seen "Babylon 5" so it may be different but I've had a look at some other things over the years and that seems to be the general case.

You may have a point about Anime though. I don't know much about it as it's not really my thing but I'm a huge Robotech fan - well, a fan of the first part and the third part anyway. Anyway, the first part The Macross Saga is a very nicely contained story, with quite an impressive scope too. And actually, while re-watching it recently, I thought that with a little tinkering, The Macross Saga would make a very good movie trilogy. The tinkering would mostly involve cutting back Min Mei scenes and axing the idea that Rick Hunter is interested in her.

So yes, you're quite right, Toru-Chan. There is some good stuff out there to fill the void. However, I don't think any of it is quite up there in terms of how much it changed the landscape yet. Now chances are, there's quite of a lot of stuff that should have swept the public consciousness but has gone completely under the radar instead. Look at the music industry for instance. At the moment, everyone just wants generic forgettable crap and so generic forgettable crap is all that's coming out. Meanwhile, there are many brilliant music artists out there who have something really wonderful to share with the world, wondering if they'll ever be able to give up their mediocre underpaid day jobs. However, whatever the reason (although it's undoubtedly unimaginative studio executives who are afraid of taking risks), we haven't seen anything that's made an impact like the "Star Wars" trilogy for quite some time.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 19 August 2007 - 07:18 PM

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#9 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 08:23 PM

That's two votes for "Taken the wind out of the franchise's sails". I haven't looked in Toy Stores lately, but I don't think they're moving much if any Star Wars merchandise. Did you read the http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/ ? The author talks about the post-ROTJ years when the public lost interest, the toy lines were canceled and the franchise withered? It'd be interesting to see the Star Wars toy sales numbers, so I wonder if it's back to that sort of disinterest?

I doubt he'll ever get the sort of interest he had at pre-PT levels. After I realized TPM was crap, I decided I'd never waste another buck on a Star Wars movie. Not as a "get even" thing, but just because it wasn't worth it.

QUOTE
All Lucas had to do was release a crisp restored version of his original movies then everyone would have been happy and "Star Wars" would be back in the public consciousness again for a little while (and in a positive way). I wonder if he'll ever realise how badly he has mangled it.


Look at the fight Lucasfilm put up *not* to release the original trilogy. It defies logic and good business sense. There's a thing called "cognitive dissonance" where a person filters information to reinforce what they'd like to believe. Publicly at least (and privately too?) he's in denial. Rather than admit he screwed the pooch, he passes us off as 30+ losers who don't realize these are kids movies (there's a purported quote where he actually says that) An unappreciated master of his art.

QUOTE
but I've never found anything as exhilirating as "Star Wars" was. Some of them are quite compelling, that's true. However, in my experience, theses shows and movies have felt more like dramas than adventures.

True. Babylon 5 and Star Trek and friends are dramas rather than adventures. Funny really. Post-SW many tried to rip it off, which they thought meant Sci-fi plus SFX plus cool villians. But I don't recall anything else that was fun to watch (besides Raiders of the Lost Ark!)

QUOTE
You may have a point about Anime though. I don't know much about it as it's not really my thing but I'm a huge Robotech fan - well, a fan of the first part and the third part anyway.

I'll check out Robotech. Don't have much time these days, so I choose carefully what I watch. But was talking to a friend's 14 y.o. daughter recently. She's into anime as are her friends and the amount of stuff they watched blew my mind. This is what SW competes with today. Part of SW success I guess was that it was the *first* (in many markets, the first to market almost always and short of a major screw up will dominate the market).

BTW There was another anime which set the world on fire (literally :-) a few years ago: Neon Genesis Evangelion. It made a pretty considerable impression on the public consciousness at the time, though many Americans have never heard of it. If I had to pick my most impressionable experiences (in no particular order)

* LOTR
* Star Wars IV, V
* Raiders I
* Matrix I
* Berserk
* Neon Genesis

QUOTE
There's quite of a lot of stuff that should have swept the public consciousness but has gone completely under the radar instead. Look at the music industry for instance. At the moment, everyone just wants generic forgettable crap and so generic forgettable crap is all that's coming out.


Society is funny. We follow trends, and there's a point where things that really aren't that good reach an idolised pitch: Witness oversized sunglasses on women and The DaVinci Code. We use the opinions of others to judge whether we like something or not, when in truth, it makes no difference. But when we find other people like what we like, we feel vindicated. We follow the herd, and despite our nice clothes, hairstyles and plasma TVs, we're a herd species. It's part of our genes.

Pop Quiz:

Q: You're walking through the city, when suddenly you see three hundred otherwise normal looking people rush past you all in one direction. What do you do?
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Posted 19 August 2007 - 08:44 PM

I'd probably get stampeded by three hundred otherwise normal people.
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Posted 19 August 2007 - 08:53 PM

QUOTE (Toru-chan @ Aug 19 2007, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's two votes for "Taken the wind out of the franchise's sails". I haven't looked in Toy Stores lately, but I don't think they're moving much if any Star Wars merchandise. Did you read the http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/ ? The author talks about the post-ROTJ years when the public lost interest, the toy lines were canceled and the franchise withered? It'd be interesting to see the Star Wars toy sales numbers, so I wonder if it's back to that sort of disinterest?


I'd hate to say so, but yes, it probably is. sad.gif

Should've started work on that TV series sooner, George... wink.gif
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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:11 PM

QUOTE (Otal Nimrodi @ Aug 20 2007, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd probably get stampeded by three hundred otherwise normal people.


That was because you didn't run with them, and were naturally deselected. ;-)
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#13 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 12:01 AM

By the numbers:

It's funny with the toy sales. In Australia, Star Wars toys still seem to be quite popular... and I'm a little ashamed to say it... but some of them look quite cool. Funny thing, isn't it? If I was making a model plane, that'd be socially acceptable - but if I was waving a miniature Millenium Falcon around my head, people would worry. However, I do kind of miss the old-school Kenner action figures though. A lot of the new Star Wars figurines look too bulky. I even remember seeing a buff Threepio figure once. I mean, that's just plain weird.

Also, I think Lucas is bringing in very big merchandising bucks from the games. Star Wars games always seem to be popular. And may they continue to be... for if they are, LucasArts might very well release an upgraded version of the classic Dark Forces with a Quake-style gaming engine like the one they used with its second sequel Jedi Outcast. It'd be good to have that kind of gaming power without being required to use lightsabres and the force all the time. Anyway... The games. I think that part of the merchandising is alive and well - and it would certainly be better than anything they had back in the immediate years after Return of the Jedi. I remember some Nintendo Star Wars games that came sometime in the late eighties but they weren't very good - probably because they were trying to turn the movies into games and all I could think while I was playing them was "Luke didn't have to put up with all this crap just to get to Mos Eisley!"

Unfortunately, I haven't read that book you're referring to but it would be interesting to compare how the merchandising was doing then to how it is now - just in case any of us ever decide to get rich by milking every possible avenue open to a franchise.

QUOTE
Look at the fight Lucasfilm put up *not* to release the original trilogy. It defies logic and good business sense.


I know. That just made it all the more weird. There was basically a crowd of people waving money at him and he shut the door on all of them. The thing that irritated me the most about what he did was that he needed to restore all the original films anyway for his 2004 special editions - yet he went to the trouble of isolating a few minutes here and there that were going to be replaced with new CGI stuff and made sure that those few minutes weren't restored. Surely, it would have been easier to just completely restore all the films and then add in the changes later. He was really playing dog in the mangar when he was whining about how expensive it would be to restore the original films - especially since if he really didn't want to do it, lots of people were willing to do it for him (and half of them sounded like they'd do it for free from what I heard). Just plain nuts. Perhaps he really was losing his marbles.


- Glad you got what I meant about adventure vs drama. cool.gif Actually, you sound like you've got similar tastes to me. I found Raiders of the Lost Ark to be the other big fun movie of the time too. Never cared for the other Indiana Jones films but Raiders is terrific.

QUOTE
I'll check out Robotech.


Your local video store might have it. Just remember to avoid "The Masters", which is the second part of the series. It's really rubbish and sticks out like a sore thumb because of a completely different production style. Also the characters are completely uninteresting and unsympathetic. Actually, the only reason its in the series is due to American TV syndication rules. The company that made Robotech wanted to put one anime series (Macross) on a daily timeslot but they needed more episodes so two unrelated series were brought in, with connections made between them through the dubbing process. Apparently, anime purists hate Robotech for this reason... but then again, anime purists are strange and off-putting people who are best avoided.

QUOTE
* LOTR
* Star Wars IV, V
* Raiders I


Wow! With you all the way!

And as for the pop quiz:

QUOTE
Q: You're walking through the city, when suddenly you see three hundred otherwise normal looking people rush past you all in one direction. What do you do?


I take a glance over my shoulder, while I continue to walk, just to satisfy my curiosity... unless they're all wearing football jerseys in which case, I don't look at all and perhaps mutter something about them under my breath. wink.gif

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 20 August 2007 - 12:02 AM

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#14 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 10:13 AM

Interesting thread.

I would say that, part of the reason for the original popularity of Star Wars (I mean episode 4) was that it was very much a Zeitgeist film which came along at exactly the right time- at the ass end of a decade of terrible social problems all audiences really wanted was a decent adventure story.

Now those types of stories a dime a dozen, and not only movies, but TV and the internet has also recreated the 'Star Wars' feeling so many times its long since past the point of routine. Everyone forgets that the now (rightfully) praised Empire didn't do a thing at the box office compared to Star Wars.

So it seems unfair to say that 'the PT didn't have the social impact of the OT' as that impact was based as much around the society it was released into as the quality of the films. One thing that the PT unarguably revived was that real, tangible feeling that cinema- I mean the actual act of going out to the theatre- could be fun again (regardless of what you thought of TPM, you can't deny that the world was gripped).

And just an aside- the Simpsons movie has a PT reference which I'm sure everyone in the audience got immediately.

p.s You're being too quick in saying "the dust has settled" too. We need to wait to see what impact, if any, Star Wars still has on those who grew up with the PT.

This post has been edited by jariten: 20 August 2007 - 10:14 AM

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#15 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 11:13 AM

p.p.s There was also one in 'Superbad'. That's two films out in the same month tongue.gif
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