[Chefelf]

I read the Thrawn trilogy as it was released when I was in high school. I loved it. I recently reread them about a year ago and I enjoyed them again. I don't know if they were quite as good as I originally thought but Thrawn and Pellaeon were both great characters. I think Zahn does a really good job of writing the characters much as you'd expect them to act.

The hot chocolate thing (and, to an extent the ysalimari) were a little tough to swallow but as far as the EU novels go, they are relatively minor flaws.

[Just your average movie goer]

I just don't like what I've heard of them, not even the Thrawn trilogy (sorry, Movie Goer).

Oh, you're missing out, Helena. Also, if you finish your Star Wars experience with Zahn's novels, then you finish it on a high note. Whereas if you finish it with Return of the Jedi, well...

I just can't recommend the Thrawn trilogy strongly enough. The other thing about Zahn is that he fleshes out the Star Wars universe really well - and I have to say, he does it better than any of the movies ever did. Although to be fair, books have an advantage over movies in establishing detail.

Oh, and hey, Helena. Good to see you again.


Also, hey Chefelf. Thank you for lending your support to the cause.

I think Zahn does a really good job of writing the characters much as you'd expect them to act.

Exactly. This is something that so many of the other authors fail to do and well... it's kind of important.

Yes, I also remember you weren't the biggest fan of the ysalamiri but I think they were used very well. They are described as an anomaly and I think Zahn did a nice job of making them plausable through the idea that they create force-empty bubbles to protect themselves against the vonskyrs which hunt by using the force. Besides, the way they were used in the story was very effective. Of course, they were a plot device but they were convincing and skilfully used.

But there's so much to love about the books. I love the noghri, I enjoy the power plays between the insane Joruus C'baoth and Grand Admiral Thrawn, I like Talon Karrde and his smuggling organisation and the way in which he tries to convince everyone (including himself) that he's neutral in the war between the New Republic and the Empire when really, he cares deep down. Even the way in which characters are paired off for their various adventures is really good. I love having Han and Lando together in their buddy movie role (and who can resist imagining Billy Dee William's voice for every single one of Lando's lines?). Having Leia and Chewbacca together so often was a good move too - and might I also add how well Zahn fleshed out Chewbacca too. We got to see his home planet (his real home planet - not the stupid CGI playset from 'Revenge of the Sith' or the silly little tree house from the 'Holiday Special'), we learned about the arboreal attributes of his people and saw just how much he cared for Leia, now that she was married to Han. And of course, Luke and Mara Jade were perfect together - and the chemistry between them was just great.

I could probably go on and on all day about how much I love these novels. They really are the best thing to happen to Star Wars since The Empire Strikes Back came out in 1980.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 29 August 2007 - 06:56 PM

[Bond]

The Thrawn Trilogy seem pretty kickass, but I don't know if I can exactly respect a giant blue Smurf who dresses like an ice-cream vendor...

[Just your average movie goer]

Stay off the drugs, Bond. They're bad for you.

[Bond]

Hey, I'm only joking, MG; no need to get defensive...

Now... other than the Thrawn books, no others have such a place in your heart?

[optimus_prime]

The Thrawn Trilogy seem pretty kickass, but I don't know if I can exactly respect a giant blue Smurf who dresses like an ice-cream vendor...

Oh come on!..you mean you missed the episode of Smurfs when Gargamel was ruthlessly attacked by Jedi Smurf...sheeesh...whats with ya?

[Just your average movie goer]

Yeah, others have a place in my heart too - the other ones written by Timothy Zahn.

The Hand of Thrawn duology (Specter of the Past and Vision of the Future) are quite cool, though not in the same league as the Thrawn trilogy. They've got a few minor problems but considering the fact that they are largely damage control cleaning up the huge mess that the authors made, I'm surprised there weren't more. They also bring closure to a few things - and I enjoy them for that reason.

The baddies in these two books are sneaky power-grabbing conspirators as opposed to the tactical genius that Grand Admiral Thrawn was. That's right. Thrawn's not in these books... so what is the Hand of Thrawn then? I guess you'll have to read them to find out.

The other thing which is good about Zahn is that he never tries to make a sale by recreating an earlier success. Each of his novels has its own flavour and deals with very different concepts and ideas. That's one of the reasons why these two books feel quite different to the Thrawn trilogy.

Survivor's Quest, where Luke and Mara go on a mission to salvage the wreckage of the Jedi Outbound Flight project that was destroyed in the Unknown Regions is quite a compelling read. It has a very cool twist when the true villains are revealed - and it's nice to have just a Luke and Mara story. Which brings me to another good point about Zahn - apart from one instance (which I suspect was due to the publisher's insistence as opposed to Zahn's own wants), he doesn't try to cram all the characters from the movies in a book unnecessarily. Han, Leia, Chewie and Lando really don't have any reason to be involved in the events in Survivor's Quest and as such, they aren't in the story.

Now, some fanboys complain when they don't have all their movie characters in a book but these are the same type of people who undoubtedly asked Lucas to put Boba Fett in the prequels. I say sod them.

Outbound Flight is a very interesting book. It is set sometime before the Star Wars trilogy and in it, the original Jorus C'baoth (whose mad clone features prominently in the Thrawn trilogy) leads an exploration flight of six dreadnaughts around a central core, with thousands of colonists, into the unknown regions of space. The mission unfortunately is set up to be destroyed by Palpatine before it even sets out. However, neither C'baoth's nor Palpatine's plans go exactly as they anticipate due to events that are unfolding in the unknown regions at the same time. Unfortunately with this book, the prequels came along and screwed everything up - and this makes a lot of the action on the Old Republic side of the story off-putting. I especially didn't like the unnecessary inclusion of Obi Wan and Anakin, which I'm sure Zahn didn't want to do. Of course, Zahn does a good job of capturing Ewan McGregor's Obi Wan and the interim Anakin between Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen... but I didn't want them there.

Having said that though, the other side of the story more than makes up for it as we follow the adventures of a young Jorj Cardas, who would later go on to set up the smuggling organisation that Talon Karrde took over, who, on a botched smuggling run, finds himself in the territory of the Chiss Ascendancy, a mysterious alien race in the unknown regions with no prior contact with humans from the Old Republic. Zahn's exploration of the notion of first contact is fascinating - and of course, it is no secret that this contact takes place with a young Chiss commander called Thrawn. It is a treat to see Thrawn in his early years. He is a very different character here - young, reckless and idealistic. But one thing that the young Thrawn and the older Thrawn still share though is his remarkable cunning and intelligence. This book doesn't show us how Thrawn goes on to become one of the Empire's twelve Grand Admirals but it serves as a fine introduction and it is fascinating to witness the events involving the Outbound Flight project and find out where Thrawn originally came from.

Lastly, Allegiance is Timothy Zahn's latest novel, set shortly after the events of Star Wars. This novel is truly amazing and it is without a doubt the best thing Zahn has written since the Thrawn trilogy. Of particular interest in this novel is that Zahn explores the inner workings of the Empire. We have La Rone, Marcross, Quiller, Grave and Brightwater - five stormtroopers deserters who discover that the Empire is what they thought it was when they joined. We have the young Mara Jade, who carries out the Emperor's orders, idealistically believing she is making the galaxy a better place. On the sides, we have Leia trying to mediate a dispute between factions of the alliance in a particular sector while Han and Luke try to find ways to make certain rebellion supply lines more secure. The multiple plot threads are skilfully handled and woven together with the seeming ease of a true craftsman. It is compelling, exhilirating reading in which we witness the early development of both the Empire and the Rebel Alliance. Also, although their role in the novel is small (much to the chagrin of those whingeing fanboys), Zahn does a remarkable job of showing how Luke, Han and Leia get from where they were in their character development in Star Wars to where they were at the start of The Empire Strikes Back. But you'll also immediately get attached to the five stormtrooper deserters - they are great characters. Zahn says he may do another novel with them and I hope it's true. It's also interesting to see the young Mara Jade and observe how she can serve the Empire without being evil herself. Also, she's a brilliant character period and the more time we can spend with her, the better. It's also very tense, particularly with the gradual merging of the story arcs. You like the stormtrooper deserters and you like Mara Jade but you can't help but worry what will happen when they meet up, considering that Mara is the personal servant of the Emperor. And the final act is just incredible - there's no way you can anticipate how it all pans out. In fact, I dare you to try. But whatever you expect, you'll be impressed.

Anyway, that's the run down. I'll re-iterate my earlier rule, just to help you remember it:

If Zahn didn't write it, don't read it.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 29 August 2007 - 10:36 PM

[Bond]

Anyway, that's the run down. I'll re-iterate my earlier rule, just to help you remember it:

If Zahn didn't write it, don't read it.

Will do, Capitan.

[Just your average movie goer]

Just bumping this so people may see my detailed reviews above - they'll probably never be read if all other users see is another one of Bond's one-line replies. Sorry. Just remember putting a bit of effort into writing them out and yet, a week or so later, no-one else read them.

[Toru-chan]

Just bumping this so people may see my detailed reviews above - they'll probably never be read if all other users see is another one of Bond's one-line replies. Sorry. Just remember putting a bit of effort into writing them out and yet, a week or so later, no-one else read them.

Yeah, I've been wondering about that and if the ChefElf BBS doesn't need a tweak. This board has been struggling to get a discussion going for a while. A possible reason threads die quickly is that detailed, thought-provoking posts that get people thinking are quickly lost by the one-liners that follow it. When people check in on ChefElf they go straight to the end of the thread, miss the meat and decide 'nothing to see here'. My heart sinks everything a potential topic starter is bumped to the black hole that is the [Previous Page].

Possible solution: Make the member's blurb on the right-hand side of each post smaller, so we can fit more posts per page. Drop the Group+Posts+JoinedDate+MemberNo and even the avatar on the shorter posts. The one-liners are often funny so we don't want to lose them, but we need to stop them drowning out the good stuff. Also the limited page width (the posts only use half my screen width) doesn't help either.

BTW did speak to the Chef a while back about an easy way just to see the new posts, but Chef said the BBS software is limited with what you can do with it. Also given the low volume of posts, wondering if all the separate areas for each movie is appropriate (since we often talk across movies or make comparisons anyway). Might be time for the BBS to go a bit of renovation. There is much better forum software out there these days (which I find much easier to use), so maybe time to upgrade? Of course I volunteer to help.

(Yes, the irony of me posting this on the end of the "SW books..." thread isn't lost, but it's a perfect example)

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 05 September 2007 - 08:48 PM

[Just your average movie goer]

That's all right. I'm just glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

And yeah, we probably could probably drop most of the sub-catagories now. I remember when they were created, they were a necessity because the board was being flooded and new users (mostly annoying gushers) were joining up every two minutes and starting fifty threads just for the hell of it. Awful, awful days...

Anyway, I think now that the last of the prequels has been and gone and 'Star Wars' isn't the latest hot topic on everyone's mind anymore, the necessity for the sub-divided forums has probably gone too.

[Toru-chan]

That's all right. I'm just glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Glad to hear it wasn't just me. Created a thread to discuss: http://www.chefelf.c...?showtopic=6687

Anyway, I think now that the last of the prequels has been and gone and 'Star Wars' isn't the latest hot topic on everyone's mind anymore, the necessity for the sub-divided forums has probably gone too.

Almost makes me wish GL would release a Pre-Prequel Trilogy to get the hordes back. Hmm... Maybe not. :-)

[Just your average movie goer]

I don't remember who said it (and I'm too lazy to check) but I seem to remember someone saying that the "Legacy of the Force" novels are all right. Whoever that person is was wrong.

Now, I haven't read any of these novels yet and I don't intend do. However, it has long been my suspicion that in the wake of the prequels, more and more Star Wars books were being written by the same half-wits who liked those shoddy films.

I saw one of the Legacy of the Force books in hardcover in a bookstore on my way home from work today. I didn't look at it but whoever did the cover art made it look interesting. I could feel that shiny new Star Wars book force at work on my mind - great artwork, shiny dust jacket... pictures of X-Wings in the background giving it a 'classic' feel... and I thought maybe this thing might be interesting.

So I looked it up on the web and found the synopsis. And well, I think it speaks for itself:

The book starts where Exile left off, with Ben returning to Jacen aboard the Sith battle sphere he found on Ziost. It follows Jacen as he manipulates politics, introducing a new law that allows him to rewrite other laws. Using this and Cal Omas' betrayal as leverage, he and Admiral Niathal stage a bloodless coup, arresting Omas and installing themselves as joint Chiefs of State. At the same time, Jacen sends Ben to assassinate Dur Gejjen, throwing the Corellian-led Confederation into chaos. Meanwhile, Boba and Mirta are still in search of a cure. After finding Skirata, a clone that survived by stopping the advanced aging process. In exchange for the promise of making the Mandalorians a united people, he cures Boba, giving him another thirty or so years to live. Mara Jade Skywalker is killed by Jacen as his final sacrifice. This sacrifice kills Ben's love for Jacen, making the prophecy complete. Thinking that Lumiya killed Mara, Luke hunts her down and kills her. Ben then reveals that Mara's killer could not have been Lumiya since Ben was with her at the time. At the end of the book, Jacen Solo assumes his Sith name: Darth Caedus.

This reminds me so very very much of the prequels. And it's so nice of whichever dimwit wrote this to kill off someone else's character and turn other characters into dimwits. I think it's representative of the extended universe novels at large - they're just spiralling out of control with more and more ludicrous stories and they are being written for the idiot prequel fan boys.


And this comes back to the point I've made all along. If you want to enjoy more stories in the Star Wars universe, Timothy Zahn is truly the only author you can rely on. All the other authors are on a quest to make the Star Wars universe as retarded as possible. In fact, this one sounds every bit as bad as any of the prequel movies or worse. For shame, whoever wrote it. For shame.

And... I know I already said it but I want to gloat. Whoever said the Legacy of the Force series was all right was wrong. It should be avoided like the plague.

[Bond]

It's meant to be a lead-up to that horrible comic series; avoid that like the plague as well.

[Just your average movie goer]

Actually, it was funny but right after I posted that thing, I thought I could probably do a list of Chefelf-style Reasons-To-Hate for that brief summary alone.

It's got the whole American government thing going on (Chief of State) and groups taken from the American Civil War (the Confederation). It's also got the name Boba. Now having not read the book, I can't tell whether or not it's freakin' Boba Fett AGAIN but my intuition tells me that this is undoubtedly who it is. And... bloody Darth Caedus! One of the things I hated about the prequels from the outset (before I had even seen them) was that every Tom, Dick and Harry was called Darth Something. It is bloody stupid. Darth was part of Vader's name, not a title. And if it is a title, then the way it's given to every git who picks up a dark side brochure makes it a pretty meaningless one. It seems that rather than letting people forget that the prequels were made, these authors are trying to recreate them in the extended universe - and in doing so, they have completely stuffed up any possibility of making decent "Star Wars" novels set further down the timeline. No wonder Timothy Zahn's latest novel was set during the events of the original trilogy. There's hardly any other place in the timeline that hasn't been screwed over.