[Just your average movie goer]

Meh. They didn't even have to make 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' at all - especially if, as you say, the book was just like the movie. Besides, they started with 'Dr No' and followed it with 'From Russia with Love' so they weren't going with the book timeline at all anyway.

Besides, I still stand by my earlier comment that the books and the movies are two very different things - and the success of the movie franchise comes off its own back, not the books.

The books are quaint and interesting - and I will say that Ian Fleming really knows the places he writes about. I lived in Japan for a year myself and when I read 'You Only Live Twice', I found myself nodding the whole time, thinking "True, true... it's really like that." - however, the movies have a much broader appeal.

[Bond]

Well, I suppose more people prefer darker fare these days, which is one of the reasons Casino Royale was so popular.

Hey, could you check out these links? I worked on most of them; some more than others. It's from Uncyclopedia, a rather offbeat humour wiki.

http://uncyclopedia....iki/Thunderball
http://uncyclopedia....Only_Live_Twice
http://uncyclopedia...._Secret_Service
http://uncyclopedia....nds_Are_Forever
http://uncyclopedia....h_the_Older_Son

I'd really like to know what you think of them.

This post has been edited by Bond: 31 August 2007 - 06:15 PM

[Just your average movie goer]

I might get around to looking at all those links later. What I saw seemed interesting. Although I wonder where they got some of the pictures.

As for the darker fare thing, you may be right - but I think 'Casino Royale' did well because of its "back to basics" approach. I don't think it will have the same timeless appeal as the best of the Connery films. It did well because it wasn't 'Die Another Day'. And as for the darker fare phenomonen in general, it's largely down to misguided directors thinking they know what the public want when they don't. I've heard numerous directors go on about how now that "we're living in a post 9/11 world" and it's rubbish. Terrible things have happened all throughout modern history. Anybody remember World War II? I think sooner or later, those directors are going to have to snap out of it or they'll find themselves out of work. I think that sooner or later, the public is going to sick of this darker fare stuff and start screaming out for something that is fun and entertaining - which, I might add, is what the best of the Bond movies were. Fun.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 01 September 2007 - 02:59 AM

[Bond]

Well, I suppose so; The Spy Who Loved Me certainly wasn't the best Moore film at the box office because it featured a torture scene...

Although, now that I think of it, Thunderball, probably the highest-selling Bond film as of yet, included a torture scene with Domino, but that might have to do with changing tastes...

[Just your average movie goer]

One of the reasons I didn't like 'Thunderball'. One of the many.

Hm, I don't remember a torture scene in 'The Spy Who Loved Me'. But then again, it's not exactly a memorable movie.

[Bond]

Hm, I don't remember a torture scene in 'The Spy Who Loved Me'. But then again, it's not exactly a memorable movie.

I was being sarcastic; it didn't. Sorry if I didn't explain that, though...

Now, MG, let me beg pardon for the MSPaint Thread: I'm sorry I disgusted you, but I hope I made up for it with the succeeding panels.

[Just your average movie goer]

Sorry. I should have registered the sarcasm. Sometimes I miss the tone in which things are written - problem with the medium.

Um... let's not go into the MS Paint thread any more. We seem to get along pretty well in the other threads we post in. So let's put the whole thing behind us.

[Bond]

All right, then...

Well, I watched You Only Live Twice again last night, and I must say, it was a mixed bag. Kissy was good, but Donald Pleasence was horribly campy as Blofeld and the theme song just seemed... well, off.

[civilian_number_two]

I just want to pipe in with this: CASINO ROYALE isn't exactly "dark." It does have the torture scene, which is ugly, and it does show the effects of the violence on its hero, which I thought was nice. But it also has really high-stakes and energetic, at times funny, action sequences, lots of the usual flirtation between the hero and the leading lady, and even a playful relationship between Bond and M. It felt as much like a Bond film to me as any of them; the aspect I really liked was that even the ridiculous high-stakes action seemed to be grounded in a real world, with believable technology and credible resistance (that is, no invisible cars or city-threatening lasers in space).

I really liked too how Bond was playing cards to put a financer of terrorists in a tight spot, rather than trying to defeat a criminal mastermind hell-bent on destroying the world.

Worst Bond, IMO: THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN

[Bond]

Thanks for piping in, Civ. I agree, Casino Royale wasn't dark, but it could hardly be called "light" when compared to Die Another Day.

As for TMWTGG, I ranked it as the second worst; A View to a Kill is the biggest stinker of all, in my opinion.

[Lord Aquaman]

Since this is something of our official Bond thread now, I shall provide an unflattering quote Pierce Brosnan made regarding George Lazenby, brought to you by Internet Movie Database, just for the Hell of it:

"George is just an angry, old, pissed off guy. He was never an actor, but some pissed-off Aussie who doesn't know how to show his feminine side. I met him, and he's got that kind of brittle edge to him."

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000112/bio

[Bond]

Brosnan said that?

Well, at least Lazenby got in one really great Bond movie, instead of the three average ones and the shit one that Brosnan made.

[Just your average movie goer]

I agree with you, Civilian that on the whole, Casino Royale wasn't a dark film per say. It was a lot of fun as well and I agree with all those other things you said about it. But for me, that makes the inclusion of the torture scene all the worse - because it ruined what should have been a really enjoyable addition to the series, for me anyway.

I tell you, if the movie had finished with Bond beating Le Chiffre at the casino, it probably would have found a place as one of my favourite additions to the series. But the torture scene is so horrible and brutal, it just clouds everything that comes before and leaves a sour taste. I rented Casino Royale recently to give it a second chance and when it reached that scene, I just felt absolutely disgusted. The moment Le Chiffre pulled out the weighted rope, I stopped the DVD and then I had to watch something else immediately afterwards to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

I haven't watched it since and I think in all honesty, I'll probably never watch it again.

And while I can't say I've watched all the Moore bombs (and I don't plan to do so either) The Man With The Golden Gun is by far the worst I've seen as well. It was actually infuriating, it was so atrocious.

Well, at least Lazenby got in one really great Bond movie, instead of the three average ones and the shit one that Brosnan made.

I'm sorry, Bond but On Her Majesty's Secret Service is an absolute bore. It is mind-numbingly dull and Lazenby was dull too. Mind you, he didn't have much to work with though. It's small wonder that film never appears in the Bond marathons on TV.

Brosnan on the other hand was great and he did a commendable job of reviving the series. He brought a very nice combination of charm, edginess and humour. He was cool, he delivered nice fun lines with a good dose of self-deprecating humour but he could also be angry or visibly upset (a lot of people forget this about him). And yes, he was in two bad films (no, not three - Tomorrow Never Dies is one of the best entries in the series) but he wasn't bad in them.

Also, theme songs - you mentioned that you didn't like the theme song for "You Only Live Twice". I don't know what you're talking about. It's a really good atmospheric song - and while not typical Bond-theme fare, it is very appropriate in the context in which it is used. It also compliments the images of the credit sequences very well.

Actually, if you want to hear a really good Bond song, the best in the entire series (no contest) is "Surrender" by K.D. Lang. It plays over the end credits of Tomorrow Never Dies and was originally intended for the title credits but the idiots at United Artists thought it'd be more trendy to have a Sheryl Crow song instead (despite the fact that K.D. Lang has one of the best singing voices I've ever heard). However, it is cool to end the movie with such an excellent song - but it would have been better if they had used it at the start as well. I mean, they used to do that in the earlier movies. They'd play the same song over the title credits and the end credits. This would have been a good time to do that again.

[Lord Aquaman]

Brosnan said that?

Well, at least Lazenby got in one really great Bond movie, instead of the three average ones and the shit one that Brosnan made.

Yeah it seemed like a low blow on his part, but Lazenby made his own derogative remark about Brosnan once -

"If Brosnan walked into a room, I doubt anyone would look up. But this is the Nineties and women want a different man, a man who shows his feminine side. Pierce definitely has that." - On GoldenEye (1995)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0493872/bio

And Sean Connery himself once remarked that he felt Timothy Dalton took the Bond role "too seriously and was not cool" with it.

And now for a useless bit of trivia: Liam Neeson was considered for the role of James Bond in "GoldenEye" before Brosnan got the nod.

[Bond]

I agree with you, Civilian that on the whole, Casino Royale wasn't a dark film per say. It was a lot of fun as well and I agree with all those other things you said about it. But for me, that makes the inclusion of the torture scene all the worse - because it ruined what should have been a really enjoyable addition to the series, for me anyway.

I tell you, if the movie had finished with Bond beating Le Chiffre at the casino, it probably would have found a place as one of my favourite additions to the series. But the torture scene is so horrible and brutal, it just clouds everything that comes before and leaves a sour taste. I rented Casino Royale recently to give it a second chance and when it reached that scene, I just felt absolutely disgusted. The moment Le Chiffre pulled out the weighted rope, I stopped the DVD and then I had to watch something else immediately afterwards to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

I haven't watched it since and I think in all honesty, I'll probably never watch it again.

Well, just watch the ending, starting with Mr. White's car pulling into his driveway. It's probably one of the best endings of the series (right after OHMSS's drive-by shooting, for me), and it serves as a great appetizer for Bond 22; in fact, I seriously hope they use it for the next film's pre-credits sequence.

"The name's Bond. James Bond."


Now, after viewing You Only Live Twice again, I know exactly how I'd recut it:

*Open with Lazenby's gunbarrel, backed by YOLT's Spanish guitar Bond theme; we iris into the final scene of OHMSS, let it run, then fade into For You Eyes Only's scene of Bond visiting Tracy's grave, then fade into the first few scenes of Diamonds Are Forever (the Japanese guy getting thrown and the fez guy getting hit); as Fez Guy says, "Maria! Ask Maria!", we cut into Bond kissing the woman from Hong Kong, and the film proceeds from there.
*After M says "That's it" in the briefing scene, cut to Bond putting on his scuba gear; "I love you" seems too callow after the way the film has been reframed.
*After the montage of Japanese signs flashing, cut to Aki's car pulling into Henderson's driveway; since the codeword has been discarded, Aki's introduction and the sumo match seem pointless. Also, it moves the plot along a great deal.
*Cut "stirred, not shaken" and the Russian vodka tidbit.
*In Osato's office, cut out Bond drinking the Siamese vodka and have him immediately notice the safe; it's a stupid joke.
*As soon as Bond crouches down over the safe, cut to one of the intense closeups of Sean Connery for a moment, then cut to Bond opening the safe; having him have the safecracker right in his pocket is ridiculous.
*When Bond and Aki run into the building, cut to the shot of Bond walking onto the sliding floor and falling.
*Cut "I love you" from Tanaka's office scene; again, no longer needed.
*Cut the walking out to Tanaka's private train and instead have them go from the small elevator to the compartment; this cut moves the film along.
*After the shot of Bond walking with Tanaka and asking him who Osato is and if he can arrange a meeting with him tomorrow, cut to Bond being driven to that meeting; the beautiful girls and Aki bog the film down.
*At Osato's office, cut from Bond walking in to the outside shot of the helicopter approaching; the moment where he's being watched is, again, not needed.
*At the end of the scene, cut Osato telling Miss Brandt to kill Bond, as it's superfluous.
*Cut out everything from the end of the office scene to right at the brief shot of Aki's car before Tanaka tells Bond the Ning-Po is at Kobe docks; the car chase is horribly stupid, and Osato's order has been cut along with it.
*Cut from Bond saying "What's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?" to Helga Brandt getting up and saying "Osato would kill me"; it mercifully shortens the scene and makes Brandt look like a deluded bimbo.
*When Bond pulls down Miss Brandt's zipper, wipe down to Tanaka saying "Chasing girls will be the end of you, Bond-san"; the plane scene is patently ludicrous.
*When the Soviet controllers remove their headpieces after their shuttlecraft is stolen, cut to Bond getting out of the helicopter and Tanaka saying "Bad news from outer space"; the scene with Blofeld's volcano lair removes all suspense from the film.
*After Tanaka says "This is my ninja training school", cut to the later scene of Tanaka telling Bond what he's going to do; the whole ninja school montage bogs the film down.
*After Tanaka says "But first, you must become Japanese", cut to the bell being rung at the wedding; the scenes in between, again, bog the film down.
*After Kissy stands next to Bond in the procession, cut to the scene where the two and Tanaka are on the boat; the wedding is too long.
*After Bond and Kissy walk off down the street, cut to the shot of day turning into night; the whole interplay looks horribly insensitive after OHMSS.
*Cut all the interplay and kissing between Bond and Kissy on the mountain; again, it just looks insensitive.
*Cut all shots of the interior of the volcano until Bond ventures in, as it keeps an air of mystery about it.
*Cut all of Blofeld's lines before "Remove his helmet"; it makes him look more mysterious.
*Recut Blofeld and Bond scene, to have Blofeld turn after saying "James Bond", we hear Bond say "Blofeld" (a clip from DAF), a quick shot of Osato, then cut back to Blofeld saying "They told me you were assassinated in Hong Kong"; after OHMSS, Blofeld introducing himself looks dumb, and the title line is just horrendous.
*Cut Blofeld's lines about his "little war" and such, as well as swinging the chain and his preening; ugh...
*Cut all outside shots on Blofeld's telescreen of the Bird 1; who's filming it, then?
*Cut Blofeld's speech about firing power and such, but cut from the ninjas fighting to Bond beating the crap out of those two guards; the cigarette gun looks dumb after its introduction is cut.
*Cut "I look forward to exterminating you personally"; stupid.
*Cut most of the ninja battle, to make the disconnect from "We are now impregnable" to "Impregnable?" a little less obvious.
*Cut from Blofeld, Bond, Osato and Hans running down to the secret door to Blofeld and Bond reaching the tram; Blofeld killing Osato is stupid.
*Cut from Hans falling into the moat to Bond running away; the pirahna look out-of-the-blue once their intro is cut.
*Cut from the last shot of the volcano exploding to the credit saying An EON Production; Bond snogging Kissy in the sub, as MG once so eloquently put it, would be very "DAF of the filmmakers".

So, that's it, I suppose.