[Chefelf]

The epilogue was, as tons of people everywhere are already complaining, just too perfect and schmaltzy. Maybe it was for the benefit of younger readers who might really need some sort of uberhappy closure in order to handle all the darker plot elements? I don't know, but I wish it weren't so sappysweet.

. . .

I also don't like the bit about Harry coming back at all. Come on. He so should have died. What, is he Jesus?

I agree the epilogue was exceptionally sappy but I can't see much more you could do with that. You could just leave the implication that everyone lives happily ever after or you could show it. Both points have problems.

I like Ginny okay but I never saw much chemistry there (not with Cho either). I kinda like the approach where there is no implied love interest for the isolated hero at the very end of a story. Leaving it open could have worked but whatever.

As far as Harry coming back, I agree (and have discussed it at length with Jen) that it would have made more narrative sense to have Harry die but I'm glad he didn't. Also, there were so many problems with the prophecy/horcrux/etc. that I could easily turn a blind eye to Harry returning from the dead (or not dying, or whatever happened).

I also agree that the walking around in the woods camping stuff was a little tedious but the final 350-400 pages really picked up. The climax was extremely exciting!

[Storm]

I really hated the whole Malfoy Manor chapter, and especially the way in which the group escapes. Here are a few of the problems.

1. Harry and everyone in the cellar are initially tied up, but break loose with help from Luna and Olivander. After they have done this, Draco then walks into the cellar to get Griphook. I'm pretty sure at this point he would have noticed that everyone was no longer tied up. Why wouldn't he say something to Bellatrix or Lucius? This leads to the next problem...

2. Draco is asked to go back into the cellar to get somebody else, but then Lucius tells him to send Wormtail instead. My question is, why didn't Lucius send Wormtail in the first place? And due to the problem from #1, Wormtail gets pounced on the instant he enters the cellar because Draco was too stupid to inform Lucius and Bellatrix that the prisoners had broken free.

3. Why did Harry even need to remind Wormtail of the life debt? From my perspective, it was kind of like a "magical binding contract" so even if Wormtail did want to kill Harry, he would have been incapable of doing so. It's like Rowling needed to give the readers a blatant reminder that Wormtail was still in debt to Harry.

4. Why did Wormtail strangle himself to death after choosing not to kill Harry? Is it because Voldemort put a curse into his silver hand that would act accordingly if Wormtail's "loyalty wavered"? And even after begining to strangle himself, why wouldn't he just transfer into a rat to avoid killing himself? I thought his death was completely lame. I was expecting him to pay his life debt to Harry at a crucial moment near the climax of the book.

5. Why didn't Lucius, Bellatrix, and Greyback search their prisoners before sticking them in the cellar? There is no way Harry should have ever had access to that little pouch which stored the broken piece of the mirror.

So in the end, Harry escapes not because his is clever...but because Lucius, Greyback, Draco, Wormtail, and Bellatrix are unbelieavably stupid. And as Harry escapes, he just happens to knock Draco's wand out of his hand, thereby unknowingly becoming the owner of the Elder Wand, which ends up being the only reason he doesn't get his ass handed to him by Voldemort. Oh, for luck!

This post has been edited by Storm: 30 July 2007 - 02:34 PM

[Bond]

Why do you hate it so much, though? It's not like Draco could have seen very far in the darkness, and, besides, they'll probably streamline it for the movie:

*Harry gets captured, stuffs the mokeskin into his pants -- problem solved.
*The DE's send Wormtail down to get Griphook; Harry and gang pounce on him, Wormtail cries something along the lines of "Thank you, thank you; let me help you escape!" and gets strangled by his hand; attempting to transform, his hand stays the same size and crushes his head -- problem solved.
*Harry rushes up, grabs Draco, points Malfoy's wand at his neck, and threatens to kill him unless he is left untouched; they back into the hallway, Dobby pops up and latches onto Harry, Bellatrix comes in with a knife, and Harry apparates out of Malfoy Manor still holding Draco's wand -- problem solved.

See? No problem.

[Chefelf]

3. Why did Harry even need to remind Wormtail of the life debt? From my perspective, it was kind of like a "magical binding contract" so even if Wormtail did want to kill Harry, he would have been incapable of doing so. It's like Rowling needed to give the readers a blatant reminder that Wormtail was still in debt to Harry.

I appreciated the reminder because I had forgotten.

[Bond]

You know, I think most casual Potter fans had...

[civilian_number_two]

Harry surviving the final conflict with You Know Who because he'd defeated Malfoy wasn't exactly deus ex machina. Sure the fight at the Malfoys was a bit quick, but Harry actually decided to fight Voldemort at the end, and set the time for it. He had already figured out the wandlore mystery on his own, and beat V based on the odd and shifting logic of Rowling's magic rules. It may have been dumb, but it wasn't just dumb luck.

[Bond]

I agree; dumb luck only happens when Greedo shoots first.

[Storm]

Most of Rowling's magic rules are stupid. It's funny how none of them ever benefit Voldemort. She uses these rules, which she never specifies beforehand, to save Harry's life a ridiculous number of times.

[Bond]

Mate, do you seriously have a vendetta against J.K. Rowling?

[CJ Marren]

Well I thought the final book was very good - although the wandering did really test the patience of the reader. The opening was unbelievable, and the final couple hundred pages were as good as anything I've ever read, particularly Harry's lone walk to his 'death' - I might have shed a few tears!

I figured before I got the book that Harry and Voldemort would both die, but it was a nice way to finish nonetheless. A happy ending doesn't mean a poor ending, and it would've been a hell of a downer for Harry to just die after getting Avada Kedavra-ed.

And for those who pick plot holes (i.e.: Storm), why not enjoy the book and the story for what it is instead of lambasting it for what it is not. There cannot be hard and fast rules for magic BECAUSE IT'S NOT REAL. Therefore, Rowling can mould the rules to suit the plot requirements.

[Bond]

I enjoyed it as well, CJ Marren. I particularly like the scene in which Ron destroys a Horcrux, as he confronts and finally overcomes his insecurities. A good role model for everyone!

[Storm]

And for those who pick plot holes (i.e.: Storm), why not enjoy the book and the story for what it is instead of lambasting it for what it is not. There cannot be hard and fast rules for magic BECAUSE IT'S NOT REAL. Therefore, Rowling can mould the rules to suit the plot requirements.

The reason I joined this forum is because I like to nitpick, as do most people here (See Chef Elf's "Reasons to Hate Star Wars")

Rowling's creation of these silly magical rules are as lame as the Jedi being unable to sense the creation of a clone army and Palpatine as the true Sith Lord because "the dark side clouds everything". Both are just silly plot devices used to allow sloppy story telling.

If Lucas didn't resort to using the Force as an explanation, then maybe he would have actually had to come up with a decent explanation as to why the Jedi's powers were diminishing. In the same sense, if it weren't for all Rowling's magical rules, she may have actually had to develop Harry into a respectable wizard who could fight for himself, not rely on convenient magical rules to save him every time.

It's slop bucket writing in both cases. Can you dig that?

This post has been edited by Storm: 01 August 2007 - 03:28 PM

[Bond]

Mate, do you serious hate fantasy?

[CJ Marren]

The reason I joined this forum is because I like to nitpick, as do most people here (See Chef Elf's "Reasons to Hate Star Wars")

Rowling's creation of these silly magical rules are as lame as the Jedi being unable to sense the creation of a clone army and Palpatine as the true Sith Lord because "the dark side clouds everything". Both are just silly plot devices used to allow sloppy story telling.

If Lucas didn't resort to using the Force as an explanation, then maybe he would have actually had to come up with a decent explanation as to why the Jedi's powers were diminishing. In the same sense, if it weren't for all Rowling's magical rules, she may have actually had to develop Harry into a respectable wizard who could fight for himself, not rely on convenient magical rules to save him every time.

It's slop bucket writing in both cases. Can you dig that?

Whatever about it being slop bucket writing, she's still inspired a shitload of kids to read, which (IMO) is terrific and truly needed these days. Also, if she didn't evoke an emotional response in readers, then her writing would be considered crap. Speaking for myself, I found her books as enthralling as Lord of the Rings, and that's saying something.

By craving absolute knowledge of all the circumstances in a fictional work, you're depriving yourself of surprises. What could she have done?! Made her first book about all the rules, regulations and circumstances that were to come??

And besides, her characters (Dumbledore esp) explains that much is unknown about magic, and even he does not know all that much... and the link between Harry and Voldemort is an as yet unknown and unexplored phenomenon, and as such will yield surprising results.

[Emu]

some of the explanations were a bit shakey. Harry apparently survived when he was a baby because his mother died for him, and Harry was able to protect everyone at Hogwarts because he was willing to die for them, too. but if that's the case, then why weren't there more Harry Potters? that is, I'm sure there were many who died for their loved ones at the hands of Voldemort. How come said loved ones didn't get the magical protection against Voldemort, too, then?

and as for the epilogue, I was rather disappointed that we don't find out what professions Harry, Ron, and Hermione take on! sure, we find out that they all get married and have n kids with funny names, but I was really curious to find out what they did after being students and all.

nitpicking aside, a really enjoyable book, which more than made up for the past two.