[mireaux7]

recently, me and a friend had a friendly discussion about children. we expressed various views on when we felt the right time was to have them.

there are two different ways to have children: planned births, and unplanned births.

its seems now, there are many teenage girls who are in high school, who get knocked up by their boyfriends or significant other and this spawns a child, which more than likely was unplanned being that both parental parties are still attending high school.

in some cases they elected to keep the child, even though raising the child can distract from current active studies. a lot of the time, such parenting responsibilites are placed onto the infant's grandparents..and this can be either a blessing or burden for them.

in other cases, the infant must be placed up for adoption..whether the child was unplanned or planned. sometimes its due to financial strain, time constraints, or simply not wanting the child.

sadly, there are even cases of abortion, which in my view should never be an option. just because you didnt plan the child or dont want it, doesnt give you the right to murder someone.

but aside from ethical views, the core of our friendly discussion referred mainly to WHEN to have children. this is to state, when do you feel in the right time in your lifetime to have children.

granted, life is short. people live, on average about 70 years-give or take. there is so much to do in life, and so little time to do it. when we reach old age, most of us want someone there to support us, so we decide to have children for these reasons.

there are those couples that get have children either in high school, or right after high school. usually, the smarter parents finish high school, pursue high education and obtain substantial income to raise the child. these parents would still be in their twenties at the time of birth, would more than likely become grandparents somewhere in their late 30's or 40's, and grandparents in their late 50's to early 60's..in fact,..these type of couples, who have children so early in life,..even share the hopes of someday becoming great-grandparents.

no matter what, you can decide when you want to have children. but what you really cant control, is when your children decide to have children. i have known some parents who have had children early in their lives,..and became a grandparent while still in their 30's. imagine that!, being a grandpa or grandma,.and not even being 40 years old!, happens a lot from what ive been told.

when i think of grandparents, i usually think of an individual who is at least 50 years old,.who is starting to grey. with that being said, it would seem that the best time to have a first child would be sometime in your 30's, and not your 20's.

if you find it an honor to be called a grandparent, then you would want to have children as early in life as possible. however, if you dont want to referred to as a grandparent until you feel you have reached an age you feel is appropriate to be called such, plan to have children later in your life.

you have one life to life. the question you have to ask yourself is, when do i want my current life to change forever?. once you become a parent, thats pretty much it,..youre a parent from that point on, youve accepted certain responsibilities, and forthcoming are the responsibilites of even being a grandparent. which, like it or not, sometimes requires you being a babysitter a lot of the time for your children's infant.

they say "love is everywhere". some people find love easy in life, they find their soulmate, and are with them forever. they find their special love early in life. yes, there are those couples that find each other early in life, marry, have maybe 2 or 3 children,..even before they are 25.

but for most, finding that special someone takes time. it requires a lot of trail and error dating, sifting through the masses, looking everywhere for that person to be with, to raise a family with.
sometimes you find someone and think they are the right one, and have a child or two, or three with them,.then as time passes, they prove not to be the right one,.and you split. the child/children are left hanging in the balance between divided parents. custody is usually given to one of the parents, sometimes joint custody. but it seems like the children spend most of their time with one parent more than the other.

but even if you dont have children with the person you meet up with, theres a good chance youve been with many other lovers before youve finally met someone you want to marry and have children with. sometimes, the decision to have children is postponed. there are many married couples, who have been married 2, 3, 5, 7 years,..who still dont have children, and have decided to wait until a certain time, until they feel having children is right.

sometimes, such couples want to build a stable financial nest..a nest egg, if you will. so they go to school, or work,..make money, invest, save..and plan for the future. they accrue a handsome amount of money, then decide to have their first child. in a lot of these cases, the childs future is happiest, because their is a sense of financial security for the child, and the parents. the parents have gotten to know each other better, and the act of having children was not something that was spontaneous from the result of a wild night at a bar, but rather conscious and planned decision as to when to have children.

this is not to say that those parents in poverty dont make good parents, because sometimes they actually make the best parents, believe it or not. from this standpoint, a child raised in poverty have parents that do everything to put the child's needs first. the child learns a lot of hard lesson in life,.like that money doesnt grow on trees. and grows up to be much more appreciative of things that they acquire. they have experienced a life in poverty, and have decided they dont want to live their life like that, so they diligently pursue higher education and make the best of it.

some would feel that it isnt right to have children early in life at all. why should you? you have but one life to live, make the most of it. after you graduate high school, and all throughout your twenties,.that should be your time..free of parenting. go out,.enjoy life,.have fun, go to nightclubs, meet people of the opposite sex, travel the country, see many things, decide who you are and what you want out of life, and dont let the responsibilites of having children fresh out of high school prevent you from doing what you want to do while in your twenties.

a lot of people have this outlook on it, they decide not to have children until they reach their 30's. while they pursue relationships, and date various people, they want nothing serious from it, and are simply exploring all of their available options, before they want to "settle down".

well, these were a lot of the views that me and my friend discussed..so what is your view on when to have children?

[J m HofMarN]

There really should be an intellect test to have kids, and you should be reuired to have done something to ensure that they'll live in a better world, such as activism, politics, public service, etc. At present, stupid people are reproducing exponentially. While a sane and responsible family might have two kids, hillbillies are having five or six at a go. The fucking Bushes reproduced and look what came of that awful fascist union! People with a history of serious violence (or, say, genocide) should not be allowed to carry on their genes.

And don't think I'm just self righteous. I shouldnt be having kids either. Both as a moral and ecological decision and because I'd get bored. I mean between the time of birth and the time when you can hang out and smoke pot with them, there's at least a few years of horrific responsibility. Who needs that crap?

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 02 July 2007 - 03:17 AM

[civilian_number_two]

JM, I doubt that history can show that the best and brightest people came from good stock and loving parents, nor that the worst came from bad folks. You know better than to suggest a thing like that. Although I agree that you shouldn't have kids. I mean, look at you.

To the general topic, I say the soner you have kids, the sooner you can have grandkids. And who doesn't want grandkids?

[Despondent]

I do. I might not be around to seeing them, and I certainly expect to be mistaken for a Grandfather when raising children myself. But here's to procreation.

[J m HofMarN]

JM, I doubt that history can show that the best and brightest people came from good stock and loving parents, nor that the worst came from bad folks. You know better than to suggest a thing like that. Although I agree that you shouldn't have kids. I mean, look at you.

Very true, there are always exceptions. Like you how you came from the union of a circus midget and a muskrat, and yet are more than the sum of your parts. I salute you, Civ!

[Radu094]

People SHOULD be tested before being allowed to have kids.

You can't buy a gun, or drive a car without lots of stupid tests. But having (and then neglecting) 12 kids.. yeah, anyone has the right to do that.

[Emu]

I agree that there should be some sort of basic parenting competency test.

but that aside, I think it's really important to make sure that you are in a good position to raise children before you go and have kids. for me that means:

-having the maturity to be a good parent. this also means having the ability to be firm/say no/take disciplinary measures when necessary.
-being with someone who you think would also make a good parent and share the responsibilities of raising kids.
-having the time and stability of career to spend actually raising kids. for me this means being finished with my education, and not sending the kid off to be raised by babysitters and nannies 24/7 - not that there's anything wrong with that some of the time, but when it's *all* the time then you might as well just not bother having kids.
-actually wanting to have kids. I think a lot of people have kids just because they think they're 'supposed' to.

so, yeah. I don't plan on having kids any time soon. being a parent is serious business, and if I'm ever going to do it, then I would want to do it right.

[Sailor Abbey]

Nature designed human females to procreate in their mid-teens. I know I’m like the only person on the planet who feels this way - but I think nature knows what its doing. I don’t think teen pregnancies should be thought of as immoral or negative in any way. At the same time - I think people should be educated and learn how NOT to have children if they arent ready for them. My cousin is 19 years old and just asked me the other day what ovulation is. What the fuck. I blame her bible thumping mother.

I guess people are living longer now days so we don’t necessarily think we need to be breeding at such an early age - but I wouldn’t fault my daughter for doing something nature designed her to do.

All I know is my mom told me if I ever came home pregnant she’d still love me but she wouldn’t help me at all. I’ve been scared to death to have kids since I was 8 years old. I’m now 26 and am 0 for 3. I think about all that time I wasted being scared, and now I cant carry a kid longer than 4 months.

I say if you have some kids, you should be happy to be able to do it - whether you’re 15 or 50. I’ll throw down with any body who feels like disagreeing.

[Slade]

There are very very few teenage girls (or boys) who have the mental capacity to fully understand child raising responsibility, or the ability to do so without completely compromising their entire lives and those of their children in terms of spending enough time with them and establishing a healthy, nurturing environment and being positive role models.

Nature might have known what it was doing a few thousand years ago, but people are different, cultures have different needs and demands. If you MUST fool/fuck around as a teenager (and many are ready to leap right in the sack without contemplation of the consequences), use protection. Don't have children until you can support and provide for them. And when you're in high school, no, you can't give them the home they deserve unless you're part of an absurdly wealthy family, and then you're just riding off of said family. I just don't think it's possible for a teenager to be really ready to have a child.

[Deepsycher]

I am not willing to sacrifice my current situation other something destined to changes I don't understand yet. Even when I afford my own home and when everything is stable I don't want to have children in the future at all because I don't think I'll make a good parent and with no one in my life that I know closely to trust so certainly not and I couldn't even commit myself very well. Unless I was forced to then I'd make things as perfect as I can attached to my worries of running a working routine for them. As my thoughts here are in words and not from actions I can't see it clearly to make definite expectations on what will happen other than nothing may not be easy but different or not the same when something becomes part of your life full time.

And I don't like sending anyone to a babysitter or nursery school. I remember nursery school very well due to the abuse I got by emotionally weak workers who spread out their anger on anyone coloured.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 11 July 2007 - 04:27 PM