[KurganX]

You probably all have heard about "The Making of Star Wars" and how great it is at refuting a lot of the revisionist claims Lucas has been making about the saga lately.

Well, if you're a cheapskate like me, you spent $1.75 on "Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays" which gives you a sort of cliffs notes type of treatment of that (for the original trilogy) circa 1997.

Yes, it includes some revisionist quotes already by Lucas, but often RIGHT NEXT to descriptions from the early scripts that prove Lucas is talking out his a$$.

Lando the last of the clones from the Clone Wars? Leia and Luke's romance? Luke's original father? Lots of choice quotes. An excellent antidote to gushers who still want to insist that Lucas had the entire saga thought up back then and just didn't write it down, so everybody would think he was a visionary genius (???).


On IMDB.com, there's a few of these guys still lingering on, and this is a great way to show them up. It's a pity few people it seems have read this text or the info in it is less well known...

Between this and the '79 first edition of "The Art of Star Wars" this is a marvelous antidote to a lot of the BS, some of it that even I bought into myself for awhile!


I was just thinking too how Lucas and McCallum don't refer to them as the "Special Editions" anymore, but the 2004 editions as just "Episodes IV, V and VI." For me they'll always be the Special Editions though, I mean c'mon, they didn't even bother to change the credits, which identify these movies as the 1997 Special Editions! (and Clive Revill, not Ian McDiarmond is credited in ESB, no mention of Hayden Christiansen... we'd have no idea this was a new edition from the credits alone, you'd have to look at the DVD credits, and frankly these guys screwed up big time, we should have gotten refunds!).

Anyway, it feels good to get vindicated now and then. Most people are distracted now with the CG Clone Wars coming up and buzz about "Force Unleashed" for consoles and speculation about the live action series, after all the "Is there a new movie/box set coming out for the 30th anniversary?" fake hype bubble burst and the indefinate putting off of the 3-d movies, but the dust will settle. The Making of Star Wars will eventually be on my list of works to check out, but I'm confident for now...

This post has been edited by KurganX: 02 June 2007 - 05:24 PM

[rosenrot]

Supposedly he thought out a long grand epic that later he split into three movies and then finally three trilogies. He started with the middle trilogy because "the middle of a story is the best".

He didn't write ALL the scripts in the 70s, that's definitely false. By his and his crew's own admissions, he wrote each script in sequence shortly after the release of its predecessor, with that long 20 year break between ep. 6 and 1. I still wonder why he waited so long, I always thought those Indiana Jones movies were nothing compared to Star Wars.

He didn't "make it all up as he went", though.

As to the inconsistencies, my best guess is he decided to leave them in there so forums like this would exist and people would continue speculation, which only promotes his films. In show business, any attention is exploitable.

I think that's most people's beef with Lucas these days. He went from being an obscure, independent artist to a big-name corporate suit.

Art and capitalism are forever in conflict, much like the light and the dark.

[KurganX]

First you say:

He didn't write ALL the scripts in the 70s, that's definitely false. By his and his crew's own admissions, he wrote each script in sequence shortly after the release of its predecessor, with that long 20 year break between ep. 6 and 1. I still wonder why he waited so long, I always thought those Indiana Jones movies were nothing compared to Star Wars.

Then you say:

He didn't "make it all up as he went", though.

Aren't these statements in conflict with one another?



Are you disagreeing with what I said, or not?



Also, while amusing, I think it's pretty doubtful that he deliberately screwed up three films just so that people would talk about it on the internet. Why not just make the movies consistent and good, that would generate as much if not more buzz than obvious mistakes...

This post has been edited by KurganX: 23 August 2007 - 10:32 PM

[Just your average movie goer]

Art and capitalism are forever in conflict, much like the light and the dark.

Well, I think we can all agree on that at least. Welcome back, Rosenrot.

[Toru-chan]

He didn't write ALL the scripts in the 70s, that's definitely false.

There's some dialog referenced between Lucas and Kasdan before TPM began shooting. It goes something like this:

Lucas: Hey! Would you like to look over the TPM script? (And by look over, I mean write it)
Kasdan: Aren't you about to start shooting that? (by which I mean you must be kidding)
Lucas: Yes! But it'd be great if you gave it the once over? (And by once over, I mean write it)

At least for the PT there are plenty of making-of minidocumentaries where Lucas walks in, throws the script on the table, and says "It's done." Fan boi production staff applaud and swoon. Lucas adds "But a lot of it says 'and they fight'"

In coming years Revisionists will look at these and swear until they're blue in the face he's not saying he just wrote it them.

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 23 August 2007 - 11:26 PM

[civilian_number_two]

Supposedly he thought out a long grand epic that later he split into three movies and then finally three trilogies. He started with the middle trilogy because "the middle of a story is the best".

That's not true. Lucas spoke in a Rolling Stone interview shortly after STAR WARS that he had in mind a bunch of ideas for sequels. These were all pretty much stand-alone, and many didn't have all of the characters in them. They had no long story to connect them; they were just episodes in an ongoing series of adventure stories.

Lucas made up the series as he went along, just as Rowling made up the Harry Potter books as she went along. I don't think there is anything especially wrong with this. What is wrong and insulting is telling your fans that you planned the whole thing all along, especially when they were alive when you made earlier, contradictory claims. It's insulting to their short-term memories and to their intelligence.

[Toru-chan]

I don't think there is anything especially wrong with this. What is wrong and insulting is telling your fans that you planned the whole thing all along, especially when they were alive when you made earlier, contradictory claims. It's insulting to their short-term memories and to their intelligence.

Me neither. Characters evolve. You get new ideas. Some things you did worked. Others didn't. It only makes sense. Heck: For the LOTR movie they were doing major rewriting in the middle (and after) shooting. They've been open about this, and there's never been an issue.

The weird thing is why Lucas denies it, in face of so much evidence (and common sense) to the contrary. People hate having to contradict themselves, or admit a mistake, but at some point, it's easier to do that, after which everyone goes 'ahhh, I see' and moves on.

Lucas: Flannelette Shirt, Jeans, Beard. He's a Nerd. Now if he was a sociopathic LSD-raddled rock star, we could understand him flipping out due to fame and fortune. Guess you don't expect a Nerd to let it go to their head, but I guess they're as prone as the rest of us. Skywalker Ranch was his own Xanadu. He did date Linda Ronstadt too. That could do funny things to a Nerd :-)

[rosenrot]

First you say:
Then you say:
Aren't these statements in conflict with one another?
Are you disagreeing with what I said, or not?
Also, while amusing, I think it's pretty doubtful that he deliberately screwed up three films just so that people would talk about it on the internet. Why not just make the movies consistent and good, that would generate as much if not more buzz than obvious mistakes...

The statements are fine. My first one says he didn't write all the details down immediately. My second one reinforces that he didn't make it all up from scratch. He already knew the major plot points and most of the main characters. It was just filling in the blanks when he wrote each script, building off the rough foundation he already had.

That's not true. Lucas spoke in a Rolling Stone interview shortly after STAR WARS that he had in mind a bunch of ideas for sequels. These were all pretty much stand-alone, and many didn't have all of the characters in them. They had no long story to connect them; they were just episodes in an ongoing series of adventure stories.

Lucas made up the series as he went along, just as Rowling made up the Harry Potter books as she went along. I don't think there is anything especially wrong with this. What is wrong and insulting is telling your fans that you planned the whole thing all along, especially when they were alive when you made earlier, contradictory claims. It's insulting to their short-term memories and to their intelligence.

It is true, it was in one of the first documentaries on Star Wars I ever saw. I believe it was "From Star Wars to Jedi" but it has been some time so I could be mistaken.

He did have other ideas for "spin off" sequels and such but did he ever say "I made it up as I went along?" I don't recall him ever saying those words verbatim, its an accusation made by some disillusioned old fans.

This post has been edited by rosenrot: 24 August 2007 - 08:15 AM

[Bond]

It is true, it was in one of the first documentaries on Star Wars I ever saw. I believe it was "From Star Wars to Jedi" but it has been some time so I could be mistaken.

He did have other ideas for "spin off" sequels and such but did he ever say "I made it up as I went along?" I don't recall him ever saying those words verbatim, its an accusation made by some disillusioned old fans.

Read The Secret History of Star Wars, my friend: it'll tell you everything you need to know about Lucas' "vision".

Besides, "From Star Wars to Jedi" was a biased documentary cooked up by Lucasfilm in 1987.

[Despondent]

He did have other ideas for "spin off" sequels and such but did he ever say "I made it up as I went along?" I don't recall him ever saying those words verbatim, its an accusation made by some disillusioned old fans.

Oh, that's rich. OJ Simpson never said "I did it". So I suppose that's just another disillusioned accusation.

Besides, I've never heard George Bush say, verbatim, "I went after Saddam because he tried to kill my daddy", but there are millions who are steadfast on that claim.

Let's look at what GL did say, verbatim:
"When I met your father, he was already on of the best star pilots in the galaxy."

[civilian_number_two]

It is true, it was in one of the first documentaries on Star Wars I ever saw. I believe it was "From Star Wars to Jedi" but it has been some time so I could be mistaken.

He did have other ideas for "spin off" sequels and such but did he ever say "I made it up as I went along?" I don't recall him ever saying those words verbatim, its an accusation made by some disillusioned old fans.

"From Star Wars to Jedi" was made after JEDI. It's revisionist. The "Rolling Stone" article (Thanks again, vwing!), where he talks about making numerous films with little or no connection to one another and no long plot, came out in 1977. There is a longer story, yes, and Lucas all along knew that he wanted a volcano planet so that Vader could suffer burns, but that's it. The longer story is nothing like the PT-OT series we now have, and it had a lot of other characters in it whose names, after the characters and storylines were scrapped, were farmed for ideas for the PT. You can also see where a dropped notion, the idea of Luke discovering the Wookies on a jungle planet and first confronting the tribal chief before later enjoying a meal around a giant bonfire, was farmed for JEDI. The Wookies were turned into Ewoks, and it's basically Leia and Threepio who charm their forest- (not jungle-) dwelling friends, but in the end they do attack an Imperial base set up on the planet. You can also read about how Ben and Luke's father know Vader, and Vader kills Luke's father. Later Ben confronts Vader and nearly kills him by knocking him inot a volcanic pit. So, goodbye to all the "Dark Father" mythology. You can read about how Ben wasn't supposed to die, that his death was written in around halfway through production. Most importnaly, and yes I'm still trying to get someone to bite here, you can read exactly ONE non-specific reference in that interview to the Odyssey, amid numerous specific references to Westerns and seirals and Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon and so on and so on and so on.

Lucas doesn't have to SAY "I made it up as I went along" for it to be true. It's true and he should embrace it. "I added ideas with the input of friends and family, colleagues, what have you, as the series developed" sounds a lot better than "I had a series planned entirely from the beginning," especially when it's obvious that he hadn't.

[Helena]

Lucas made up the series as he went along, just as Rowling made up the Harry Potter books as she went along. I don't think there is anything especially wrong with this. What is wrong and insulting is telling your fans that you planned the whole thing all along, especially when they were alive when you made earlier, contradictory claims. It's insulting to their short-term memories and to their intelligence.

Exactly. For instance, Terry Pratchett (who is a MUCH better writer than Lucas) freely admits that he made up the Discworld books as he went along, and no one criticises him for it. In fact, he gets far more respect than Lucas simply because he respects his fans' intelligence, and doesn't expect them to swallow a pile of bullcrap about how the entire thing was planned out in advance when it clearly wasn't. I have no idea why Lucas seems to find it so impossible to understand this.

[Bond]

Thing is, Rowling didn't make it up as she went along; she wrote the first book, then wrote the epilogue of the final book so she would know what she was working up to. She definitely had most things planned out, and one character (Mr. Weasley) even got a reprieve by the time she got to writing the fifth book.

Some authors, after all, know exactly what they're doing.

[Madam Corvax]

Anyone who thinks that Lucas genuinely planned the whole thing from the beginning should listen to the Special Edition commentary by Irvin Kershner. Frankly speaking, I am amazed that Lucas let Kershner say all those things and claim credit for them.

Especially that bit when Kershner insisted that R2-D2 on Dagobah should raise on his tippytoes to look into Yoda's hut and how the crew had to build a special contraption to let him do it. It is obvious then that Lucas never planned R2 to be brave action droid with ability to fly (and just "forgot"to include that in OT)

[Bond]

Well, Kershner is a goddamned genius, but it's an awful shame he went out on Robocop II.

I mean, they should get him to do one of those Harry Potter films: he'd know what he'd be doing.