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A comment on your games. Right...

#1 User is offline   Lachie Dazdarian Icon

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 03:09 PM

I finally downloaded several of your games. I really don't know why it took me so long.

Anyway, I tried 6 Days A Sacrifice first, which I admit, is not the best way to play this series, but I don't consider this an important factor in enjoying 6 Days A Sacrifice. The quality of the graphics disappointed me to some extent, as it seemed better on the screenshots. It is very good, no doubt about that. And excellent in some parts. But it doesn't impress me. It lacks that cutting edge. Not that you should deliver graphics that impress me. I'm just rambling.

I must admit that the story annoyed me. It all seems like a type of plot I had in my head when I was about 13, 14. I'm not saying it's childish, but I dare to say it doesn't read and play enough good for me to consider it extraordinary in the sense of intelligence, maturity, and relevance. Perhaps it simply isn't my cup of tea. I mean, the Prince, the King, the Bridgekeeper, the Guide,...one thing too many. But overall, if I ignore the overdone plot, the script itself is very well written. I was truly scared several times in the game, and little games succeded in that with me. Not that I played many horror games, but nevertheless. Anyway, you have talent. I just don't think you are using it well.

The game difficulty was on my level and I managed to finish it in about 3 hours, if curious.

Like I said, you are definitely a talented game designer. 6 Days A Sacrifice intrigued me to check you other adventure games. Unfortunately I resorted to using a walkthrough with 5 Days A Stranger, and the plot really disappointed me. It's like something from Joe D'Amato's movie, but it doesn't have that "trash value". I mean, the police can't get in the mansion?!? Gimme a break! The game WAS quite scary, and perhaps you should go in that direction more agressivily with future projects. Trilby's Notes is sitting for quite some time on my harddisk. I played it in several sessions, but still didn't get far in it. Damn scary game.

Regarding my critics on the graphics and the plot, perhaps Iím still under the influence of Bernieís excellent adventure games (AGS too). Check them out (if you donít know about them from before). Cedric rules! http://www.origamihero.com
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#2 User is offline   floppydisk Icon

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 05:33 PM

In before rampant bitching from forum members.
QUOTE (Theodor Herzl)
If you will it, it is no dream.
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#3 User is offline   Blueskirt Icon

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 11:12 PM

QUOTE
Anyway, I tried 6 Days A Sacrifice first

My brain stopped to function for several minutes when I read that sentence.
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#4 User is offline   Tek Icon

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 07:48 AM

..uuh..Playing 6 days first RUINS the plot.

It's like listening to music out of order, it would sound terrible if it wasn't in the right spot.

Also, putting a link to someone elses AGS games is a bit of a pisser.
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#5 User is offline   Blueskirt Icon

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 11:36 AM

Well, Bernie's games are indeed great games and the more people that will play them, the better IMO. I don't see any problems in throwing a plug for another person's games. This being said, I don't really think we should take this review seriously since careless of all the warnings, Lachie managed to play the games in the worst imaginable order possible, so any comments regarding the plot or storytelling simply fall flat.

Regarding the graphics, yes, there are far better background artists out there, but Yahtzee's backgrounds are better than the average, they have their own charm, and Yahtzee's strenght reside in storytelling, which Lachie ruined for himself, and in designing new gameplay mechanics and mixing other game genres' elements with adventure games (P12, GFW, 1213), which the XDaS/TN series was totally devoid of.

However, on the scientific front, it's not a total waste, now we know what happen when you play the XDaS/TN series starting with 6DaS.

This post has been edited by Blueskirt: 01 June 2007 - 11:41 AM

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#6 User is offline   David-kyo Icon

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 12:06 PM

QUOTE (Blueskirt @ Jun 1 2007, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Regarding the graphics, yes, there are far better background artists out there, but Yahtzee's backgrounds are better than the average, they have their own charm...

Moreover, most of those background artists do not draw the sprites, do the programming or write the script for the game.

This post has been edited by David-kyo: 01 June 2007 - 12:06 PM

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#7 User is offline   Lachie Dazdarian Icon

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 03:32 PM

With all do respect to your obvious likeness for the story, Iím really not convinced that I didn't like the plot because I didn't play the series in the right order. I was clear what I didn't like. But like I said before, despite this fact, I enjoyed the games from the series and appreciate many of their qualities. Actually, this ambivalence points out my respect for the positive aspects of the games even more.
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#8 User is offline   David-kyo Icon

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Post icon  Posted 01 June 2007 - 05:45 PM

With all due respect blahblahblah you mentioned you never finished Trilby's Notes. I insist that if you haven't finished TN then you basically screwed up the whole thing for yourself in 6DAS because you don't understand what the fuck is going on, even though you might think you do.

(By the way, this situation reminds me of a Stella-award winner in America: this woman goes into a fast food restaurant, orders coffee, and being an exceptionally clumsy (or crafty) bitch pours it all over herself, and sues the company because of the 3rd degree burns she sustained (yearite).)

Applying the same analogy: it's clearly written down on the download page and in many of the updates that if you haven't played 7DAS and TN you won't have the faintest idea of what's going on. It will be a confusing experience where you encounter the weirdest characters you've ever seen, who apparently have an agenda of a Super Mario villain (that's what I believe a person might think on the first couple of days in 6DAS if they haven't played the prequels). So you might as well stop belittling the story and finish the previous parts. It's possible that it won't make you like the whole thing any better, but there's a chance we might take your opinion more seriously if you at least look at the stuff you criticize thoroughly.

This post has been edited by David-kyo: 01 June 2007 - 05:46 PM

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#9 User is offline   Thaluikhain Icon

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 02:04 AM

Well...I sort of have to agree. If you are looking for story, then horror games or movies aren't really the right place. Although Yahtzee does it well, the whole "daemon comes to devour the Earth" is a bit old hat nowdays. Like zombies...anything with zombies in it is likely to not make too much sense. But 1213 is still really cool and scary...except for the last episode, cause I keep getting killed on the tram...

Anyway, yeah. You shouldn't really expect horror to have a sensible story (at least not if there is supernatural elements or something), it's supposed to be scary. Most of it isn't, but Yahtzee manages. Yes, it would be really cool if the story was impeccable, and the reasoning completely logical...but that's a bit too much to ask for.

Alternatively, why doesn't Lachie Dazdarian make his/her own games, much better than Yahtzee's, with completely sound plot and great story, and we'll all desert Yahtzee for him/her then?
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#10 User is offline   Lachie Dazdarian Icon

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 09:31 AM

David-kyo:

Look, you are obviously a die hard fan, a groupie, or whatever, of the series, and you can't accept my opinion as a valid one. It has to result from my "most stupid" way of playing the series, through which I "ruined" the most wonderful experience that the series provide. You most clearly belong to those who think that quality creative work, weather that is a movie, book or a computer game, can be "ruined" on some way. To me, that kind of work which can be ruined on some way is inferior to that which can't.

My observations of the 5 Days A Stranger don't have nothing to do with the way I played the series, and the dislike of the plot in 6 Days A Sacrifice has nothing to do with the fact I didn't recognize certain characters and visions right away, but with my opinion of the overdone and somewhat pretentious plot. The readme files of 6 Day A Sacrifice has more than enough information for me to get the basic background information, so I wasnít as oblivious as you are convinced I am.

I like the directness and simplicity of the ODYSSEUS KENT much more than the entire Trilby series, despite the immensely larger effort that was put in the mentioned series.

Anyway, you are forcing me to criticize the story the more I want so I'll stop.


Thaluikhain:

So only people who can do something better are allowed to criticize? That's preposterous.
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#11 User is offline   David-kyo Icon

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 11:59 AM

LD: Whoa, didn't know that being a Yahtzee-fan was considered a taboo on the FullyRamblomatic forums. Sorry about that. Anyway, I'm not debating you because I'm pissed off at you or anything, more like I'm still waiting for you to make a valid point.
EDIT: However, having recently read an ancient thread of yours in which you regarded Yahtzee as if he condoned pedophilia because he'd mentioned he'd like to know what went on in these people's heads, I guess it's a wasted effort. Perhaps the critique was just an alibi to stir up stuff again.

Thaluikhain: It is indeed retarded to come forth with the "No likey? Make a better one!" argument. Even though I cannot lay eggs, I can decide whether the ones I'm eating are rotten or not.

This post has been edited by David-kyo: 03 June 2007 - 12:07 PM

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#12 User is offline   Lachie Dazdarian Icon

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 02:43 PM

I was rather restrained in my critique of the Trilby series, and with a reason, since overall I liked it, but did not love it.

Anyway, is it a taboo in here to criticize Yahtzee's work?

I made valid points. You choose to ignore them. Simply say you don't agree with me and my taste. Don't say crap about me making no valid points.

And if I'm going to attack Yahtzee because of less or more founded and mature reasons, that will be obvious. I don't BULLSHIT. Ever.

As for the pedophilia thread. I pretty much stand by the things I said there. Well, less aggressive, and with less spelling mistakes. I just have this view of life that people should be responsible for their choice, and raping a child is a choice. Anyway, don't want to start that discussion again in here.
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#13 User is offline   Blueskirt Icon

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 09:03 PM

It's not a taboo to criticize Yahtzee's work, a lot of us criticized 6DaS, some thought it was the best, some thought it was the worst of the series. Some here like the Chris and Trilby comic, I think it's crap. I think none of Yahtzee's XDaS games are anywhere as good as GFW, and there's also moments where I fear GFW was the result of pure luck, that Yahtzee will never be able to surpass GFW and that all upcomming games will be deception after deception for me, it's my opinion.

It's not that we don't agree with you, it's simply that we don't see your points as valid to debate. If we'd disagree with you, we'd at least recognize that your points are valid.

Simply do yourself a favor, play the series in the intended order, stop comparing apples with bananas, take into account the games' released date, see how the game design and storytelling evolved, then come to us with your opinion and we won't mind debating with you, and if we don't agree, we'll concede that it's a valid opinion.

But don't come here thinking we'll consider your points and opinion as valid after you've played the series in a way that was not intended because it simply make as much sense as you being hit by a car and saying that your experience, with the car hitting you, constitute a basic to write a test drive review about that car, because it doesn't.
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#14 User is offline   floppydisk Icon

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 11:31 PM

QUOTE (Blueskirt @ Jun 1 2007, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, Bernie's games are indeed great games and the more people that will play them, the better IMO. I don't see....


You mean BEN?
QUOTE (Theodor Herzl)
If you will it, it is no dream.
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#15 User is offline   Blueskirt Icon

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 12:10 AM

QUOTE
You mean BEN?

No. Bernie. The guy at http://www.origamihero.com . Lachie mentionned him in his first post. If you haven't tried his games yet, it's not too late.
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