Chefelf.com Night Life: First time viewer watches them 1-6, writes review - Chefelf.com Night Life

Jump to content

Star Wars Fan Convention

  • (4 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4

First time viewer watches them 1-6, writes review

#16 User is offline   Bond Icon

  • Agent 007
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Limited Members
  • Posts: 295
  • Joined: 13-July 07
  • Location:Her Majesty's Secret Service
  • Interests:James Bond, Star Wars, Harry Potter
  • Country:United States

Posted 20 July 2007 - 08:40 PM

Hmmm... interesting. happy.gif

And, now that I've checked: I actually have a Windows 98. Sorry. blushing.gif
IPB Image

You only live twice:
Once when you're born
And once when you look death in the face.

--Ian Fleming
0

#17 User is offline   jariten Icon

  • making the nature scene
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,845
  • Joined: 18-August 04
  • Location:in the bin
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 21 July 2007 - 07:15 AM

QUOTE (KurganX @ Jul 18 2007, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, VERY detailed descrition there!

So "Jedi" are diplomatic corps? That doesn't explain what they are and what they can do, not even close. Might as well just say "the good guys."

The Jedi are brown robed warrior monks who have telekinetic/mind powers, carry glowing swords and serve the Chancellor of the Galactic Senate in the Republic. They are employed as peace-keepers and diplomats and (during the Clone Wars) soldiers and military commanders.


Listen, if you watch TPM, and still don't know who or what the Jedi are, you're either an idiot, or you fell asleep (which is likely during certain bits).

Jedi- "champions of peace and justice", can use magic, excellent warriors, feared (by some) and respected, spiritual, have a rank and file order, dispatched on missions to resolve conflicts...etc.

All that is in the film. What more do you need to know in order to understand what the Jedi are in TPM?

Thats why, either the guy who wrote the article was lying, wasn't paying attention, or is stupid.
0

#18 User is offline   blueoceans Icon

  • Mini Boss
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 227
  • Joined: 16-October 06
  • Location:from the deep ocean fathoms
  • Country:United States

Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE (Prequel dialogue coach @ May 29 2007, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I looked it up and he was never a writer for Full House,


Full House?..surely youre not talking about that cheesy 1990's television show set in San Francisco?
0

#19 User is offline   Bond Icon

  • Agent 007
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Limited Members
  • Posts: 295
  • Joined: 13-July 07
  • Location:Her Majesty's Secret Service
  • Interests:James Bond, Star Wars, Harry Potter
  • Country:United States

Posted 21 July 2007 - 01:17 PM

I think he did that to probably justify George's cheesy dialogue. laugh.gif
IPB Image

You only live twice:
Once when you're born
And once when you look death in the face.

--Ian Fleming
0

#20 User is offline   KurganX Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 566
  • Joined: 06-June 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:United States

Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:16 PM

QUOTE (jariten @ Jul 21 2007, 07:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Listen, if you watch TPM, and still don't know who or what the Jedi are, you're either an idiot, or you fell asleep (which is likely during certain bits).

Jedi- "champions of peace and justice", can use magic, excellent warriors, feared (by some) and respected, spiritual, have a rank and file order, dispatched on missions to resolve conflicts...etc.

All that is in the film. What more do you need to know in order to understand what the Jedi are in TPM?

Thats why, either the guy who wrote the article was lying, wasn't paying attention, or is stupid.



My point was the opening crawl does NOT tell you what the Jedi are.

If you didn't know what a police department was and I just said "To protect and to serve" would that give you any idea? Hardly. If you didn't know what Boy Scouts were and I said "Do a good turn daily, and be prepared" would you know? So the opening crawl is really no help in figuring that out, since it's so general.

He'd have to pick that up as he was watching. Remember, he's watching these on cable, so he doesn't have the option of rewinding and re-watching scenes.

If you think he's stupid or lying, that's your prerogative. I find it funny though that people don't trust him. Why would they create a fake article to bolster the claims of SW purists who insist on watching the movies in production order/think the originals are superior?

It's not a problem that the Jedi aren't described in expository detail (as they are in "A New Hope"), because the vast majority of people watching Episode I have already seen the OT or are at least passing familiar with it. The prequels were not designed to be viewed first, but were primarily targeted at Star Wars fans.

This post has been edited by KurganX: 21 July 2007 - 10:19 PM

0

#21 User is offline   jariten Icon

  • making the nature scene
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,845
  • Joined: 18-August 04
  • Location:in the bin
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 22 July 2007 - 06:55 AM

I don't think he's lying, although finding an adult who hasn't seen any SW must have been a task. I do however, find it incredible that anyone could watch all of TPM and still not know who the Jedi are.
0

#22 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 394
  • Joined: 25-January 07
  • Country:Australia

Posted 22 July 2007 - 07:20 AM

QUOTE (jariten @ Jul 22 2007, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think he's lying, although finding an adult who hasn't seen any SW must have been a task. I do however, find it incredible that anyone could watch all of TPM and still not know who the Jedi are.


The Scene with Alec Guiness and Mark Hamill in SW4 in Obi Won's hut explained compactly and elegantly what a Jedi was and what the force was, all in a couple of minutes of dialog:

QUOTE
'http://home.online.no/~bhundlan/scripts/Star-Wars_4th-Draft.txt'

LUKE: What is it?

BEN: Your fathers lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster.

Luke pushes a button on the handle. A long beam shoots out
about four feet and flickers there. The light plays across the
ceiling.

BEN: An elegant weapon for a more civilized time. For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire.

Luke hasn't really been listening.

LUKE: How did my father die?

BEN: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

LUKE: The Force?

BEN: Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.


Let's contrast that with the introduction of Jedis in Episode 1:
QUOTE
'http://home.online.no/~bhundlan/scripts/Star-Wars-Episode-I.txt'

NUTE
(shaken)
What?!? What did you say?

TC-14
The Ambassadors are Jedi Knights, I believe.

DOFINE
I knew it! They were sent to force a settlement, eh. Blind me, we're done for!


He might as well have said 'The Ambassadors are two lawyers'. Effect is the same. :-)

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 22 July 2007 - 07:21 AM

0

#23 User is offline   Bond Icon

  • Agent 007
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Limited Members
  • Posts: 295
  • Joined: 13-July 07
  • Location:Her Majesty's Secret Service
  • Interests:James Bond, Star Wars, Harry Potter
  • Country:United States

Posted 22 July 2007 - 11:53 AM

So the Jedi are like intergalactic lawyers, eh? No wonder the clones go after them, the Order was probably attempting to go after the Kaminoans with litigation about the ethicality of their cloning program... laugh.gif
IPB Image

You only live twice:
Once when you're born
And once when you look death in the face.

--Ian Fleming
0

#24 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 394
  • Joined: 25-January 07
  • Country:Australia

Posted 22 July 2007 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Bond @ Jul 23 2007, 02:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So the Jedi are like intergalactic lawyers, eh? No wonder the clones go after them, the Order was probably attempting to go after the Kaminoans with litigation about the ethicality of their cloning program... laugh.gif


lawyers suing someone over lack of ethics? LOL indeed! :-)

However 'LA Law in Space' would have been an improvement over the Kids Political Trade Drama that was TPM.
0

#25 User is offline   Bond Icon

  • Agent 007
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Limited Members
  • Posts: 295
  • Joined: 13-July 07
  • Location:Her Majesty's Secret Service
  • Interests:James Bond, Star Wars, Harry Potter
  • Country:United States

Posted 22 July 2007 - 08:28 PM

Do you think it's a coincidence, then, that LA Law and Star Wars both star Jimmy Smits? wink.gif
IPB Image

You only live twice:
Once when you're born
And once when you look death in the face.

--Ian Fleming
0

#26 User is offline   rosenrot Icon

  • New Cop
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 21-August 07
  • Country:United States

Posted 24 August 2007 - 08:31 AM

He already knew too much about the trilogies, he could hardly be considered a virgin.

I plan to do this experiment myself one day. My first born will have the privilege ( tongue.gif ) of seeing all six Star Wars films back to back to back.

One problem, however, is the PT is not intended to be viewed before the OT, simply due to the order of release. ANH would be extremely redundant to a view that had seen 1-3 right before it, whereas in the real world timeline it was our first exposure to Star Wars.
0

#27 User is offline   KurganX Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 566
  • Joined: 06-June 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 August 2007 - 04:13 PM

Well that's the point isn't it?

It's to see whether this crap Lucas is spewing these days (that he "intends" for people to see them "in order" 1-6, in the DVD cuts as one complete saga) really creates a better impression on viewers than the traditional way (release order, or just skipping the prequels, or watching the original editions). And on a side note the question of whether (as Lucas and his apologists spew) that the 2004 Editions really "flow better" with the Prequels than the originals.


True, you're not going to get 100% absolute results one way or the other, but I think the average Lucas apologist argument is that 1-6 makes more sense, is cooler, flows better, etc.

A review like this seems to indicate that in fact, all this did was highlight the weaknesses of the prequels, ruined some of the surprises in the OT, and didn't do anything to hide the fact that the OT has obviously been heavily modified with computers since the 80's.

I do have a nagging suspicion that the agenda of some Lucas apologists who put forth the "see the prequels in order first" argument are really admitting to themselves that they know the prequels are weaker films than the OT, and this to them is the only way they can get someone to like them.

That is, a first time viewer who is receptive will watch the prequels and like them... until they see the OT and how superier they are. But with no standard of comparison, a first time viewer will perhaps like the Prequels more than they would otherwise, and the fanboys need validation for their love of the mediocre new films and inconsistent/noticable changes in the SE's. So this is an underhanded way perhaps for them to get more new fans "on their side."

It's just a hunch though. wink.gif

Personally it really doesn't matter to me what people want to like. Which Star Wars movies are your favorites (if any) is purely a matter of opinion (leaving aside financial success or long term popularity, awards, technical achievement, etc). Eventually the OT will shine through as the superior product I trust.

It's just that it seems silly to force people to suffer through the prequels, because of some desire to fulfill the "intentions" of a producer/director whose intentions seem to be ever-changing.

Now how parents raise their kids is their business (I'll resist the urge to crack a joke about TPM and child abuse!), and probably a young child could get through TPM easier (though they might nod off partway through the politiking scenes), but it's a jump from that mostly childish film to ROTS with its dark, often mature themes and rather graphic (by comparison) violence.

The OT by comparison seems to be consistent in its level of mature themes. The burning skeletons in ANH are a bit scary, as is the wampa attacking Luke in ESB (though it's mostly unseen, compared to the dripping bloody monster in the SE) there's mild profanity throughout and Leia's palace bikini and the the dancing girls in ROTJ might be a little much (though as a kid I never found them distracting or titilating, and those outfits by the standards of today's teeny bopper pop stars may even seem conservative!). But PT is all over the map, going from cutesy and innocent to suddenly heads rolling, melting flesh, domestic violence and mass child murder by the supposed lead character!
0

#28 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

  • Canada's Next Top Model.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 3,382
  • Joined: 01-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Your Dreams
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:Canada

Posted 25 August 2007 - 09:00 PM

I agree that Kenobi explained the Jedi better than TPM did. I have no idea about the other prequels, but Kenobi in STAR WARS explained the Jedi as well as the Force before we saw him play with stormtroopers' minds and cut a man's arm off with his lightsaber. We know next to nothing about the Jedi in TPM before they're doing deep breathing exercises, blocking lasers with their swords, and running inhumanly fast. In short, it's assumed we already know them, that we've seen the OT already. Everything I know about the PT relies on its being seen after one has already seen the OT. And yeah, the big dramatic revelation of EMPIRE is better if one hadn't already seen the PT.

I don't know how many of you read the "Narnia" books in chronological order, but we all know they weren't written in the order in which it appears in all of the boxed sets. I think it's a strength of that series (which I think had about 4 weak books to 3 good ones) that the books can be read out of order without hurting the reading. That I think is a pretty good basis of comparison when considering whether Lucas was successful with his prequel narratives (he wasn't).
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
0

#29 User is offline   Bond Icon

  • Agent 007
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Limited Members
  • Posts: 295
  • Joined: 13-July 07
  • Location:Her Majesty's Secret Service
  • Interests:James Bond, Star Wars, Harry Potter
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 August 2007 - 10:06 PM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Aug 25 2007, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree that Kenobi explained the Jedi better than TPM did. I have no idea about the other prequels, but Kenobi in STAR WARS explained the Jedi as well as the Force before we saw him play with stormtroopers' minds and cut a man's arm off with his lightsaber. We know next to nothing about the Jedi in TPM before they're doing deep breathing exercises, blocking lasers with their swords, and running inhumanly fast. In short, it's assumed we already know them, that we've seen the OT already. Everything I know about the PT relies on its being seen after one has already seen the OT. And yeah, the big dramatic revelation of EMPIRE is better if one hadn't already seen the PT.


Have you ever heard of an ancient storytelling technique called in media res? "In the middle of things" is roughly what it translates to, and that is precisely where we are when TPM opens: in the middle of things. Same goes for ANH. wink.gif
IPB Image

You only live twice:
Once when you're born
And once when you look death in the face.

--Ian Fleming
0

#30 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

  • LittleHorse Fan
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 4,528
  • Joined: 30-October 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, NY
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 August 2007 - 10:15 PM

I think I can speak for civ2 when I say that yes, he has heard of in media res. However, there's a big difference between starting a scene in the middle (oh my god, they're shooting at those guys . . . but why?) and starting a major plot point in the middle.

I think the technique that Lucas uses if you watch the episodes in chronological order is more like in media plumbeus.

Of course, it's ridiculous to think of a situation where someone has no knowledge about a Jedi. You don't have to have seen any SW movies to already know what the Force, Jedis and lightsabers all are.
See Chefelf in a Movie! -> The People vs. George Lucas

Buy the New LittleHorse CD, Strangers in the Valley!
CD Baby | iTunes | LittleHorse - Flight of the Bumblebee Video

Chefelf on: Twitter | friendfeed | Jaiku | Bitstrips | Muxtape | Mento | MySpace | Flickr | YouTube | LibraryThing
0

  • (4 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4


Fast Reply

  • Decrease editor size
  • Increase editor size