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"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" What is Anakin talking about?

#31 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 11:42 AM

In which Vader's background in Empire was developed in April '78.

Anyway, I grew up with the PT. Figures. unsure.gif
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#32 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 02:57 PM

You're 14-15, Bond?



Anyway, it was stupid. Vader didn't kill her, she killed herself. And she did so, uh... because she
couldn't live with the fact that she was now a mother of two children and her husband had "good in him" ???

Vader has the Force he can "search his feelings" and know that the Emperor is wrong. He even protests that she as alive and he felt it, etc.

Lucas is a hack (or he's turned into one since the early 80's!)...

This post has been edited by KurganX: 20 July 2007 - 03:01 PM

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#33 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 08:44 PM

Actually, I'm older than that. angry.gif

Yeah, the whole "broken heart" thing was f*cked up.
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#34 User is offline   julie123 Icon

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 09:36 AM

QUOTE (KurganX @ Jul 18 2007, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anakin has no good reason to believe that Palpatine can give him the power to save lives with the Dark Side. In fact, Palpatine ADMITS he lied to him, and Anakin still pledges himself to his teachings and goes and murders a bunch of people at his command.



Damn straight!!

It's like the scene when Palpatine tells Anakin that there is a way to prevent death, etc, etc. Surely at this point in his training, the chosen one should have realised that just by having this sort of information about the Sith, that Palpatine himself MUST lean more than a little to the dark side? Why then does he never question the validity of what Palpatine is saying?

It was hardly a biggie that Anakin was going to become Darth Vader, but was it too much to expect a logical reason why?
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#35 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 11:02 AM

Well, GL changed the reason for Anakin's turn in post-production, so that may have something to do with it. sad.gif
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#36 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 02:35 PM

QUOTE (Bond @ Jul 20 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, I'm older than that. angry.gif



My apologies. I was trying to guess your age based on "grew up with the prequels."

I imagined you were 6 or 7 in 1999 when TPM came out (the supposed target audience age, though
frankly I think he was shooting for even younger with the Jar Jar antics and potty jokes).


If you are 18-19, then surely you remember the Special Editions in theaters (or on VHS)? Or didn't your parents let you see those?
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#37 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 02:59 PM

Just to touch on the whole "I am your father" thang...

Why is it when Vader says that, Luke's reaction, and ours, is that Darth is actually Anakin? Up until that point, we've been told Darth and Anakin are two different people and we have no reason to believe otherwise. Based on that perspective, wouldn't the logical conclusion be that Darth is saying that he, as Darth Vader: seperate entity from Anakin, is actually Luke's father? I find it very interesting that in a split second Darth Vader actually ceases to exist because of one little sentence, yet there's no real reason for that to happen. OK, so we make the leap and decide Darth is actually Anakin behind the mask...why did we automatically assume then that Darth didn't exist at all as a seperate person? We didn't find out for sure until ROTJ that that was the case. Maybe it's just hindsight, but were these questions fans were wondering at the time? It really seems like Luke is reacting right away as if this means Darth is Anakin, not that he's possibly Darth Vader: seperate entity's spawn.

I guess the mask is the key factor here...if my maskless arch-enemy, who I had been told killed my father, suddenly says that HE'S my father, is my first assumption really going to be, "oh, that must mean it's actually my dead father who got plastic surgery and has been living under an assumed identity for 20 years now"? I think not.
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#38 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE (KurganX @ Jul 22 2007, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My apologies. I was trying to guess your age based on "grew up with the prequels."

I imagined you were 6 or 7 in 1999 when TPM came out (the supposed target audience age, though
frankly I think he was shooting for even younger with the Jar Jar antics and potty jokes).
If you are 18-19, then surely you remember the Special Editions in theaters (or on VHS)? Or didn't your parents let you see those?


Actually, I'm 16. When the TPM came out, I was 8, but I don't remember much about watching the theatrical release.

Also, I did watch the originals (around 1997, I believe), but they weren't the Special Editions. I first saw them after renting all three for one night. I'm guessing I was getting interested in all the hubbub, but I don't remember seeing them in theatres. I got them from a local Hollywood Video, back when they put their own logo on the VHS covers (which, admittedly, is a long time ago! happy.gif). After that, I was hooked. A friend of mine actually had a box set of the three (VHS format), and he let me borrow them for a while. I can still remember, in the dead of night, that magnificent scroll going up my screen. Ah... magic. smile.gif
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#39 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:54 AM

QUOTE (MyPantsAreOnFire @ Jul 22 2007, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just to touch on the whole "I am your father" thang...

Why is it when Vader says that, Luke's reaction, and ours, is that Darth is actually Anakin? Up until that point, we've been told Darth and Anakin are two different people and we have no reason to believe otherwise. Based on that perspective, wouldn't the logical conclusion be that Darth is saying that he, as Darth Vader: seperate entity from Anakin, is actually Luke's father? I find it very interesting that in a split second Darth Vader actually ceases to exist because of one little sentence, yet there's no real reason for that to happen. OK, so we make the leap and decide Darth is actually Anakin behind the mask...why did we automatically assume then that Darth didn't exist at all as a seperate person? We didn't find out for sure until ROTJ that that was the case. Maybe it's just hindsight, but were these questions fans were wondering at the time? It really seems like Luke is reacting right away as if this means Darth is Anakin, not that he's possibly Darth Vader: seperate entity's spawn.

I guess the mask is the key factor here...if my maskless arch-enemy, who I had been told killed my father, suddenly says that HE'S my father, is my first assumption really going to be, "oh, that must mean it's actually my dead father who got plastic surgery and has been living under an assumed identity for 20 years now"? I think not.


Good point. There's no reason we couldn't have guessed that he was told all along that "Anakin Skywalker" was his father when REALLY Darth Vader was his father (who had KILLED Anakin Skywalker).

So it's like if he was raised thinking that Alexander Hamilton was his dad, when really it was Aaron Burr.

But most of us are so used to thinking of it as "Anakin = Vader" because we've grown up with the series as a trilogy. Not all of us are old enough to remember seeing ESB in the theater and spending time speculating about what was going to happen next, three years down the road in Jedi.

This post has been edited by KurganX: 02 August 2007 - 01:05 AM

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#40 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 01:23 AM

That actually raises an interesting point. I wonder if Lucas ever thought of that when he was writing RotJ; it could've been an interesting twist... wink.gif
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#41 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE (KurganX @ Aug 2 2007, 01:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But most of us are so used to thinking of it as "Anakin = Vader" because we've grown up with the series as a trilogy. Not all of us are old enough to remember seeing ESB in the theater and spending time speculating about what was going to happen next, three years down the road in Jedi.


I know. I wonder all the time what it would be like to see ESB in 1980. Not knowing who Yoda was, not knowing if Vader was telling the truth. That movie just sets such a high standard visually and emotionally.
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#42 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:40 PM

It was Freakiing AWESOME! Of course the next thing we saw were Jabba's muppets and the teddy bears...

Imagine how awesome it must have been for GL the first time he heard it, too!
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#43 User is offline   Cobnat Icon

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 03:17 PM

QUOTE (King Diamond @ Apr 7 2007, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why does Anakin suddenly think the Jedi are evil? He says that during his lightsaber duel with Obi-Wan. Anakin's decision to join the Dark Side had nothing to do with the Jedi! He joined the Dark Side on a wager; Padme's life (possibly) in return for his obedience to Palpatine. I don't even think Anakin cared about the Dark Side. He probably would've pledged himself to Elan Sleazebaggano if Elan spoke of a way to save Padme's life.

Anakin even says, "I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over."

Um... what? Anakin knows perfectly well that this was a lie created by Palpatine to trick the Senate into forming a Galactic Empire.

Am I missing something? Or are Anakin's motivations really that inconsistent and illogical?


That and “There were heroes on both sides” is a sad attempt to make the prequels appear less black and white.
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#44 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 04:46 PM

I certainly wouldn't let my children go see the "Special" editions! Sheer ridiculousness and gratuitous stupidity we've come to expect from Lucas and nothing else. pinch.gif

Flaming Pants: Yeah, when I watched the movies for the first time, I thought "So his father wasn't really dead, he assumed a new identity as a dude in a goofy helmet." *shrug*
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#45 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 07:41 PM

QUOTE (Cobnat @ Aug 2 2007, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That and “There were heroes on both sides” is a sad attempt to make the prequels appear less black and white.


Actually, they stole that line from Hero. angry.gif
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