[Slade]

Mireaux: I think the word you're looking for is "subconscious", not "subliminal". Subliminal is more of an acting force that's so subtile it works subconsciously, not consciously.

Overall, this is a movie based upon a franchise. Just like the Ninja Turtles movie, and the LotR trillogy, and a zillion other movies, it doesn't have to be like the comics/toys/books. You can complain that this isn't like the old series and toys all you want, but it's a moot point, because it's meant to be viewed as a film based upon a franchise. It's a new take on old ideas. Complaining about how it's different is only worthwhile if the differences are a bad idea for reasons other than nostalgia. Otherwise, go complain about Tom Bombadill not being in the LotR movies, and the lack of a return to the Shire. Producers and directors stream-line and mainstream the series because their goal is to make lots of money. Sometimes it sucks, but that's how it is.

[Jaded Wolf]

Mireaux: I think the word you're looking for is "subconscious", not "subliminal". Subliminal is more of an acting force that's so subtile it works subconsciously, not consciously.

Overall, this is a movie based upon a franchise. Just like the Ninja Turtles movie, and the LotR trillogy, and a zillion other movies, it doesn't have to be like the comics/toys/books. You can complain that this isn't like the old series and toys all you want, but it's a moot point, because it's meant to be viewed as a film based upon a franchise. It's a new take on old ideas. Complaining about how it's different is only worthwhile if the differences are a bad idea for reasons other than nostalgia. Otherwise, go complain about Tom Bombadill not being in the LotR movies, and the lack of a return to the Shire. Producers and directors stream-line and mainstream the series because their goal is to make lots of money. Sometimes it sucks, but that's how it is.

True, and if some of the stuff they leave out won't hurt the story then it works out. I've never read the LoTR books yet but I knew Peter Jackson left some things out. I don't think it hurt the overall story though. I absolutely love the LoTR movies. As for TMNT, I like the original movie that came out and the one that came out this year. Secret of the Ooze and the third one was too cheesy. As long as their are some links to the franchise originality then I'll like it. It's when they completely try to re-invent the stuff is when I get mad. Like the Masters of the Universe movie. I still watch it but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[princesskadee]

You may be right about there not being enough transformers in there but there is a budget restriction to think about here. Also, that was one gripe I had about the 80's series and the animated movie was that there were too many of them to keep track of them. The one gripe I do have is no Soundwave. That dude rocked. Anyways, I think the fewer the better. I don't like Starscream's look either but I am willing to give it a try.

a budget restriction? ha!..with Spielberg's money? Lets not forget that these Transformers are NOT truly "real-life" Transformers, but CG renditions. Speilberg is one of the richest film producers on the planet, with similiar financial wealth as another well-known film maker (cough *Lucas*).

so you are saying the more CG characters in the film, the more it will cost? That didnt stop Lucas at all, certain scenes of the new trilogy are chock full of hundreds of characters. I dont think having 25-50 transformers on the screen simoultaneously is going to stretch Speilberg's budget at all.

This post has been edited by princesskadee: 04 June 2007 - 08:17 AM

[Jaded Wolf]

a budget restriction? ha!..with Spielberg's money? Lets not forget that these Transformers are NOT truly "real-life" Transformers, but CG renditions. Speilberg is one of the richest film producers on the planet, with similiar financial wealth as another well-known film maker (cough *Lucas*).

so you are saying the more CG characters in the film, the more it will cost? That didnt stop Lucas at all, certain scenes of the new trilogy are chock full of hundreds of characters. I dont think having 25-50 transformers on the screen simoultaneously is going to stretch Speilberg's budget at all.

But would 25-50 transformers fit into the story and the movie. There are numerous X-Men but only using around 5-7 in any one film gave the characters more development time. You hash out 100 different characters then you also hash out less development and flood the story with too many introductions. Two hours into the movie and Optimus Prime and Megatron are finally finishing the intros. I just don't think 25-50 would work. The budget restrictions I was talking about are the ones where the smart producers, knowing they could finance the CGI, would not because they might not be sure they could make the money back. A successful movie has to be able to pay for the budget and then exceed it. Hence Spider-man, X-Men, and the Pirates of the Caribbean. Lucas spent his money because he knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that his franchise would make it all back and then some. He was right.

[mireaux7]

But would 25-50 transformers fit into the story and the movie. There are numerous X-Men but only using around 5-7 in any one film gave the characters more development time. You hash out 100 different characters then you also hash out less development and flood the story with too many introductions. Two hours into the movie and Optimus Prime and Megatron are finally finishing the intros. I just don't think 25-50 would work. The budget restrictions I was talking about are the ones where the smart producers, knowing they could finance the CGI, would not because they might not be sure they could make the money back. A successful movie has to be able to pay for the budget and then exceed it. Hence Spider-man, X-Men, and the Pirates of the Caribbean. Lucas spent his money because he knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that his franchise would make it all back and then some. He was right.

it certainly worked in the 1986 transformers film, and there were dozens upon dozens of characters in that film. The key to that film was that the story really didnt need "character development", because you went in seeing it, already knowing the personalities of many of the characters of the film.

The new characters you didnt know had their character built up as the story flowed on..the story never stopped and turned the bright spotlight to shine on any one character at any given time,.it flowed gracefully and never lost focus of the gripping storyline, thats what made that film such a memorable success.

So, with that being said, I contest your theory about a story is only good if you have just a handful of characters instead of a massive lot of them. Its really all based on the talents of the writer..with the right amount of skill, any given obstacle will become a masterpiece on the big screen.

[Jaded Wolf]

it certainly worked in the 1986 transformers film, and there were dozens upon dozens of characters in that film. The key to that film was that the story really didnt need "character development", because you went in seeing it, already knowing the personalities of many of the characters of the film.

The new characters you didnt know had their character built up as the story flowed on..the story never stopped and turned the bright spotlight to shine on any one character at any given time,.it flowed gracefully and never lost focus of the gripping storyline, thats what made that film such a memorable success.

So, with that being said, I contest your theory about a story is only good if you have just a handful of characters instead of a massive lot of them. Its really all based on the talents of the writer..with the right amount of skill, any given obstacle will become a masterpiece on the big screen.

I disagree. That was one of the problems I had with the animated movie. Too many characters and some of them just did not make sense. Plus, they had those stupid dance segments and played 80's rock tunes every chance they got. I admit the film was excellent but for me there were too many characters. Time to agree to disagree here.

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

Wait, the animated series and film were more than a flashy toy commercial?

News to me.

[optimus_prime]

Wait, the animated series and film were more than a flashy toy commercial?

News to me.

Yeah, there is in fact a storyline behind it all.

In fact, there are surprising similiarities between the 1986 film and the Star Wars franchise.

during some of the very first scenes that show Unicron, we see a close up of Unicron passing by very slowly, this is reminiscent of the Imperial Destroyer being shown in a similiar fashion during the opening of ANH.

There is a scene aboard the Autobot spaceship, where Hot Rod is practicing swordfighting a robot, reminiscent of when Luke Skywalker is practicing his lightsaber skills on a droid in ANH.

The Autobot Matrix is similiar to the Force. In Star Wars, both the Rebellion and Imperial Forces try to manipulate the force to serve their cause. Both Autobots and Decepticons are trying to use the Matrix for their own deeds.

some of the characters in the TF movie have similiar characteristics with SW characters:

Hot Rod.....Luke Skywalker
Grimlock...Chewbacca
Arcee........Leia (Arcee even has "hair buns")
Springer....Han Solo (both have cynical remarks)
Unicron.....Death Star
Kup..........Obi Wan
Perceptor...C-3PO
Megatron/Galvatron...Darth Vader

[Mad Rabbit]

To be quite honest I am looking forward to this movie. Considering it's Michael Bay I have already lowered my expectations so hopefully I can go into this movie and check my mind at the door. Let's face facts this movie is NOT going to be winning any acadamy awards. Granted I do have some issues with the new look of some of the transformers, but at least by getting some of the original voice talent from the original animated series, Michael Bay is showing he has some respect for the material he's working on. That alone is going to make me let a lot of things slide.

There's no way this movie is going to be liked by everyone, especially one that has a die hard geek fanbase. There will be bitching and moaning about how a particular transformer didn't make it into the film, there will be comparisons between the live action movie and the animated movie. In truth I don't envy Michael Bay or anyone trying to make a movie based on a franchise.

I don't really care if Bumblebee isn't a VW bug. At least Prime is still a Semi Truck. My main concern is that these robots will act... well robotic. The transformers were sentinent beings each with distinct personalities. If they act like destructive out of control robots from a bad 50's sci-fi movie, just to be destructive then this movie will definately suck. As long as Prime acts Heroic, Megatron acts like a leader with a method to his madness I am more than willing to give this movie a shot.

[civilian_number_two]

Well I saw the trailer for this thing (I suppose everyone has by now), and it looks like a Michael Bay film, that's all I can say. Dumb jokes, gorgeous cinematography, things crashing into the planet and blowing up like crazy. I think plotwise it'll be more or less like The Incredible Hulk: mysterious power emerges, is misunderstood, challenged by the military, it survives. Then somewhere in the third act the real villain shows up and the mysterious force fights it.

As for too many characters, the 1986 movie didn't have that many. Most of the bit players that appeared on screen weren't even named before they were killed. The film only had about 10 characters that had anything to do with the story. But anyway, I think this film will have a more manageable set of characters, and most of the talking will be done by humans. I think in terms of mainstream appeal, that's a good move, but of course it's not really true to the original concept.

[blueoceans]

As for too many characters, the 1986 movie didn't have that many. Most of the bit players that appeared on screen weren't even named before they were killed. The film only had about 10 characters that had anything to do with the story.

hmm..lets see if i can name the ten

hot rod/rodimus prime
kup
arcee
grimlock
wheelie
springer
galvatron/megatron
unicron
ultra magnus

thats only nine, who did i leave out?

[barend]

well... just so you know. I just got back from the cinema where i watched it twice.

it fucking rocked!!!

Bumble bee is a camero because GMC sponsered the movie. watching a beetle race spike around and tear up the road was as realistic as soundwave turning into a small portable stereo.

the changes work for the film, I think most of you will be pleasanlty supprised, except those who were the kind of people who were miffed that Lord of the Rings wasn't a musical, or that wolverine didn't wear yellow spandex.

they also updated jazz to be a little less "yes massa" than he was in the cartoon. i'm not sure if anyone will complain about that...

seriously. that's the first time i've walked out after a film, grabbed a bite, and went to the next session. It super rocked. the end battle (which gets relocated to a city for no adequatley explored reason) goes for ages.

go see this damn film. I've been waiting over 20 years for this film to be made, and i wasn't disspointed. the romance occupies an innofensively small amount of time and is done in an entertaining way.

so in short...

awsome!!!

[princesskadee]

so?, was anyone lucky enough to catch a late night premiere of this much anticipated film?

i would go and see it today, but i have to work, and would barely be able to squeeze in a showing. so, on that note, i will probably just wait until the 4th of july to see it.

im gonna wearing my tf baseball cap and autobot insignia shirt to the show. might as well bring along my laser-light pen too. i love to shine it at the big screen when peeps least expect it.

[sesame_street_hustler]

they also updated jazz to be a little less "yes massa" than he was in the cartoon. i'm not sure if anyone will complain about that...

Jazz (known as Meister in Japan) was voiced by a black man named Scatman Crothers in the 1980s (who is deceased). I assume your implying that the persona of Jazz from the 80's cartoon imbued a stereotypical african american. i dont feel that was the case, in fact, if anything Blaster leaned more towards being stereotypical in this aspect than Jazz ever was. But really, neither character displayed a full fledged stereotype, racial or otherwise.

Jazz, as his moniker implies, was a very smooth laidback character. Of all his autobot comrades, he was usually regarded as being slow to hostility or anger. (unlike warpath or grimlock for example).

I never once heard Jazz say "yess massa" in any cartoon, so Im assuming youre adding in a pun, albiet being somewhat slightly racial. Jazz is an mechanical being from Cybertron, not a plantation cotton picker from the movie "The Color Purple".

by the way, i despise how Jazz looks now compared to his old look. They changed him from a quite stylish Martini Porsche 935 Turbo into a bland grey Pontiac Solstice,..booorrrring.

This post has been edited by sesame_street_hustler: 03 July 2007 - 07:29 AM

[princesskadee]

this movie rocks, go and see it