[Don Andy]

Intersting point, actually.

Although I wouldn't see what he so dire needed Trilby for, what he couldn't do with anybody else. Also he didn't seem to do much with him for 200 years. Beside poking his eyes out, maybe.

And about the Welder trying to kill Trilby. Chzo wanted to spare him, yes. But Tall Man/Welder never actually did what Chzo said to 100%. Cabadath plotted on his own, and John was pretty much just a confused child who did what Cabadath wanted.

[ziratha]

Just a random thought, maybe chzo wasn't just trying to make a new prince, but was trying to protect itself from that new prince. Remember, john defoe was afraid of trilby. Maybe it kept that old trilby (the one that ends up being killed) around so as to protect itself. If defoe was afraid of trilby, maybe the new prince was too.

And so chzo could keep trilby around so that if the new prince ever turned on chzo he would be kept at bay by the trilby.

[Remnant]

Has anyone considered the (incredibly far out) possibility that Yahtzee used an unreliable narrator? Perhaps Malcolm is indeed the murderer and is insane. Seeing as we see things through his eyes, maybe the insanity of opening the box and space dementia drove him crazy.

Or not. But we can't assume that he didn't do it, simply because he was the PC. Assume for a second that he is insane enough to kill his crew and be sent to the asylum. Would he really see what he was doing as wrong? In 6DAS, he sees the Welder in those he killed, so perhaps on the ship itself he began to hallucinate and kill who he thought to be Welders.

[Ryu]

Just a random thought, maybe chzo wasn't just trying to make a new prince, but was trying to protect itself from that new prince. Remember, john defoe was afraid of trilby. Maybe it kept that old trilby (the one that ends up being killed) around so as to protect itself. If defoe was afraid of trilby, maybe the new prince was too.

And so chzo could keep trilby around so that if the new prince ever turned on chzo he would be kept at bay by the trilby.

A fair point indeed. If we back up the theory of the New Prince being Theo/DeFoe, or DeFoe otherwise messing up the New Prince's mind, the Newbie would be too afraid to plot agains Chzo, because he had Trilby. Then again, I'd be more afraid of a huge Pain-Eye than some old guy hanging from a... Err... Wall.

Besides, as Trilby became that one greatest pain DeFoe knew, maybe Theo's mind got so messed up, that he created one such too. Maybe it was Trilby too, maybe it was Chzo. That doesn't really matter. But I think I'll back up this one, that the Newbie Prince is afraid of something Chzo has.

//By the way, I just thought of one thing. If Yahtz is going to rant on with this serie, the last part could actually be one where Chzo would be destroyed. By NP or Trilby or whoever. Chzo's not immortal or anything. Yes, maybe he enjoys pain, but that doesn't change the fact that he can be destroyed. If Chzo was able to consume (= Destroy) all other pain elementals, then he can be destroyed too. Just a thought, and I wouldn't probably enjoy such a game, but we'll see.

This post has been edited by Ryu: 04 February 2007 - 07:02 AM

[David-kyo]

Chzo is not immortal, but quasi-immortal, as he is always one step ahead of anyone trying to fuck with him (he sees time as one), so he can create obstacles to avert any harm.
Anyway, I don't think he "destroyed" the other pain elementals, more like became one with them.

[Don Andy]

A fair point indeed. If we back up the theory of the New Prince being Theo/DeFoe, or DeFoe otherwise messing up the New Prince's mind, the Newbie would be too afraid to plot agains Chzo, because he had Trilby. Then again, I'd be more afraid of a huge Pain-Eye than some old guy hanging from a... Err... Wall.

Eh, the New Prince has nothing from John, besides his clothings. For the bridge to be opened, Body, Mind and Soul of John had to be destroyed, so there simply CAN'T be anything of John be left in Theo.


New Prince != John DeFoe

The outfit of the New Prince is just created from what he was wearing, since Chzo probably gives a damn about what his avatars wear. He isn't exactly one to go for clothes anyway, judging from his looks. Theo was wearing John's outfit, his bandages and was pretty messed up, so he created the new prince from that image. Noticed how the Welding mask changed into some sort of helmet? That's probably because in the realm of Magick, welding masks aren't that common.

And just before anyone goes yakking about the Old Prince having a outfit that looked nothing like Cabadath's old one: We have seen nothing of him for a few hundred years after Chzo "invited him over", so we can't say what he looked like immediatly after he became Prince and if he probably changed his clothings on his stay in the realm of Magick.

[Dalboz]

"Eh, the New Prince has nothing from John, besides his clothings. For the bridge to be opened, Body, Mind and Soul of John had to be destroyed, so there simply CAN'T be anything of John be left in Theo.
New Prince != John DeFoe"

Well, the welding mask and the apron came from DeFoe's mind (and were no ordinary objects), and besides those, DaCabe's mind was probably heavily influenced by DeFoe's, so I'm not perfectly confident about Theo alone being the NP.

And yes, I can understand that the destruction of mind was a bridge event, but I'm not talking about DeFoe = New Prince.

[Don Andy]

"Eh, the New Prince has nothing from John, besides his clothings. For the bridge to be opened, Body, Mind and Soul of John had to be destroyed, so there simply CAN'T be anything of John be left in Theo.
New Prince != John DeFoe"

Well, the welding mask and the apron came from DeFoe's mind (and were no ordinary objects), and besides those, DaCabe's mind was probably heavily influenced by DeFoe's, so I'm not perfectly confident about Theo alone being the NP.

And yes, I can understand that the destruction of mind was a bridge event, but I'm not talking about DeFoe = New Prince.

Yes, yes, but there can't even be a tiny little bit of John left in Theo. For the bridge to open, the mind must be utterly and completely destroyed. Remember, in 5DAS the Mind (the mansion) was supposedly destroyed, but nevertheless it still resided in the ruins. If there really was something of his mind left in his clothings, then there would be no bridge.

[Dalboz]

Okay, I must accept this.

[ziratha]

Well, maybe you could think of it like a stamp, the kind you use to imprint an address on a label. You use the stamp to put your address on a letter, and then burn the stamp. The stamp is gone, but your address is still on the letter.

Maybe defoe is completely gone, but if the new prince IS all theo and not defoe at all, his mind could have still been effected by defoe. If defoe had possessed theo, then as defoe's mind was being destroyed it could have warped theo's mind such that it gained traits not origionally possessed by theo. Just sayin'.

*hides*

[Don Andy]

Well, maybe you could think of it like a stamp, the kind you use to imprint an address on a label. You use the stamp to put your address on a letter, and then burn the stamp. The stamp is gone, but your address is still on the letter.

Maybe defoe is completely gone, but if the new prince IS all theo and not defoe at all, his mind could have still been effected by defoe. If defoe had possessed theo, then as defoe's mind was being destroyed it could have warped theo's mind such that it gained traits not origionally possessed by theo. Just sayin'.

*hides*

This actually sounds quite logical. Never looked at it like that.

[Blueskirt]

Just a random thought, maybe chzo wasn't just trying to make a new prince, but was trying to protect itself from that new prince.

Interesting thought, but considering he removed all of the Tall Man's forces in a blink, I don't think he is really scared of the New Prince. Trilby is probably there to keep the New Prince in line, so he doesn't plot against his master like the Tall Man did.

[Don Andy]

Interesting thought, but considering he removed all of the Tall Man's forces in a blink, I don't think he is really scared of the New Prince. Trilby is probably there to keep the New Prince in line, so he doesn't plot against his master like the Tall Man did.

Hmm, maybe Trilby isn't in Chzo to keep the New Prince in line, but rather for the New Prince to vent some anger. Something as a toy for the New Prince, since the Old one could only go out once every year to have some fun. And Chzo is keeping him alive throughout, which he can't anymore after Frehorns blade completly removes his life force.

Just a random thought, though.

[Ishbane]

I registered for the sole purpose of blowing your mind.

Remember this: After the Mephistopheles killer met his future self and killed himself, he obviously became the man in red (...) and entered Chzo - at a time after the new prince was born. That old, pale Trilby hanging in Chzo's flesh was the trembling one from the end of the game, the last clone. RedRobe took his life energy, passed it to the dying Original, tried to make a run for it and - that's the most important part - ran into the New prince. This proves a ) that the New prince won't leave the realm of Chzo anytime soon and b ) that the game came somewhat to an end by killing the last of the existing Trilbys.

Don't know if anyone wrote something about this matter already, it's just that this thread somehow grew to big to read all of it.

This post has been edited by Ishbane: 06 February 2007 - 02:12 PM

[Gobbler]

No kiddin', it's TLDR all the way up until here.