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Reasons to Hate Star Wars About my articles.

#61 User is offline   Mushroom Icon

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 06:54 PM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jan 3 2005, 08:14 PM)
Mushroom, welcome to the forums!  smile.gif

Thanks!
QUOTE (Chefelf)
That is a great point.  I suppose that, and numerous points could all be summed up with one simple point:  The Jedi in the prequel trilogy are just really, really dumb.

Indeed, I find it frustrating that we're taught throughout Episodes IV, V and VI that the Jedi are careful bearers and protectors of a powerful phenomenon, yet in the later films they just appear to be a repetitive multitude of Laurel and Hardy acts - it's as if Lucas has projected into the characters his own apparent lack of faith in his audience's ability to work out what's coming from past experience, which has made the characters seem shallow and stupid throughout.
QUOTE (Chefelf)
Glad to make your aquaintence, Mushroom.  As a reward I have designed an avatar for your trouble.  Welcome.

Nice to be here. Thanks for the avatar, it's great! thumbsup.gif
The best joining reward I've ever had anyway... probably because it's the only one, but it's still great happy.gif

This post has been edited by Mushroom: 03 January 2005 - 06:59 PM

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#62 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 09:25 PM

Hey Chefelf, great site! I just gotta vent for a sec:

I just did a SW marathon this weekend to see if the dialogue in OT was as bad as NT and it was in parts. I realized that Luke was as annoyingly whiney as Anakin....BUT ITs STILL SO GOOD! WHY?

I also noticed how neither ep1 or 2's duels involved dialogue. All 3 duels from the OT are dialogue heavy. With lines like "there is no conflict" "then my father is truly dead" So GL didn't come up with these lines? ROTJ was so wonderful it sent shivers down my spine like it always does. Who wrote Yoda's "Luminous beings are we..." and all those great quotes? GL apparently isn't capable now.

On paper ESB's "you like scoundrels" can seem as bad as the infamous AOTC "sand" dialogue but Harrison Ford pulled it off brilliantly.

(btw did you notice that both kisses were interuppted?)

Quick topic change, I always assumed the timeline was much larger for some reason. I mean, our own earthly evil empire - the soviet union lasted from what, 1917ish to 1991. I mean, that's 74 years, a freakin' long time. Enough to wipe out the memory of Czarist Russia (or a Galactic Republic) from most people living 70 years into its reign. In 20 years there would be as much republic junk lying around the empire as we have 80's rock albums.
The "50 year old battleship technology inconsistency" is a perfect example. Props to whoever brought that up.

I don't understand why the Clone Wars couldn't have taken place 70-odd years before ANH. Yoda is alive cause he's Yoda. Vader is half-machine. The dark side keeps Palpatine alive, albeit wrinkled and pale, while in turn the Force sustains a 90 or 100+ year old Obi-Wan. It would makes sense then, why people would think Ben Kenobi is dead. Btw, in 2004, white male life expectancy is what? 70yrs? 80yrs? and rising? Aren't you and I supposed to live to be close to 100 if we were born in the 80s? How long is life expectancy in an advanced civilization like Star Wars?
I know Luke is 20. But this is Science Fiction or Fantasy. I'm sure a competant writer could find an amazingly believable way to postpone the birth of the twins. I mean, if you and i will put aside skepticism about two death stars and ewoks with a spears kilingl armored stormtroopers (b/c ROTJ was still that great), why can't infant Luke and Leia be hidden in suspended animation for 40 years or something? I don't know what to do anymore. I think i'm going to join the cult of fans theraputically typing rewrites.

thanks for putting up with my rant.
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#63 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 09:55 PM

OH! Reason number ##!

I thought about this while watched AOTC, and forgot about it until i saw it elsewhere on the net

In the Battle of Geonosis....why why why did the Clone Army choose to attack the stadium using "Revolutionary War" tactics. I mean....seriously. Shouldn't the Republic armada use space age technology to precision blast the tanks from orbit? Or couldn't space age bombers drop JDAMS in an air war instead of dropping all those ridiculous troopers down to get slaughtered? Does this have anything to do with General Yoda's military prowess? IF 30 JEDI COULD SNEAK INTO A FOOTBALL STADIUM OF 100,000 GEONOSIANS COULD A COUPLE OF CLONE S.E.A.L.S. (or jedi commandos) SABOTAGE THE FORCES FOR THE ASSAULT to prevent such a bloody battle?

how many bombs did we drop on baghdad before the marines went in?

the only other time we saw a ground battle like this was in ESB, and the only reason the Empire didn't hit the site from orbit was because of the shield. Vader says so "land your troops outside the shield as disable it." WELL THERE"S NO SHIELD ON GEONOSIS. Also, the snowtroopers stayed in the AT ATs until the got next to Echo base. Unlike our wonderful Clone troopers who get out and sand straight up in the wide open miles away from the stadium against battle droids standing up in the wide open. Even i know to get on my belly when someone is shooting at me and i'm no soldier.

what a stupid stupid movie

wtf mate
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#64 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 11:27 AM

Hey, Just another wrethed fan, welcome to the forums! Great posts! smile.gif

QUOTE (Just another wretched fan @ Jan 31 2005, 09:25 PM)
I just did a SW marathon this weekend to see if the dialogue in OT was as bad as NT and it was in parts. I realized that Luke was as annoyingly whiney as Anakin....BUT ITs STILL SO GOOD! WHY?


I agree, Luke was annoying. However, he was annoying in the Daniel-San/Rocky sort of way. The impatient student whose eagerness to learn their respective martial art is overwhelming their ability to learn. The master must therefore step in and curb that eagerness and teach restraint.

Anakin is just an angst-ridden idiot. He doesn't ever seem eager (or even interested) in learning the skills of the Jedi. He's just an uncontrollable, unfocused, reluctant student. It's unclear what his motivations are but he never seems all that interested in the ways of the Jedi. Obi-Wan never truly seems interested in teaching him either. Who can blame him?

QUOTE (Just another wretched fan @ Jan 31 2005, 09:25 PM)
I also noticed how neither ep1 or 2's duels involved dialogue. All 3 duels from the OT are dialogue heavy. With lines like "there is no conflict" "then my father is truly dead" So GL didn't come up with these lines? ROTJ was so wonderful it sent shivers down my spine like it always does. Who wrote Yoda's "Luminous beings are we..." and all those great quotes? GL apparently isn't capable now.


Exactly. ANH, ESB, ROTJ, The Princess Bride, etc. These are movies where great duels are accompanied by great dialogue. The relationship between the duelists is what drives the duel and makes it interesting. In TPM we are shown a much more complex and acrobatic duel that lacks the power of the previous three for the simple reason that there is no relationship. None. Darth Maul is just some silly-looking scary guy that looks evil so they fight with him. The only relationship is that he'd previously attacked Qui-Gon out of the blue on Tatooine. There is no dialogue. No character development. Just a lot of flipping around and impressive lightsaber work. Then Obi-Wan wins and the duel is over. Boring.

QUOTE (Just another wretched fan @ Jan 31 2005, 09:25 PM)
On paper ESB's "you like scoundrels" can seem as bad as the infamous AOTC "sand" dialogue but Harrison Ford pulled it off brilliantly.


I suppose you are right. Somehow the "scoundrel" bit is so much more convincing. Perhaps it is Harrison Ford's performance that makes this the case. I think moreso it is that Han Solo is sly, likable, charming and witty. Anakin is just creepy. Han solo delivers his "scoundrel" routine with a sideways smirk. Anakin delivers his "sand" bit with only his usual creepy angst.

QUOTE (Just another wretched fan @ Jan 31 2005, 09:55 PM)
In the Battle of Geonosis....why why why did the Clone Army choose to attack the stadium using "Revolutionary War" tactics. I mean....seriously. Shouldn't the Republic armada use space age technology to precision blast the tanks from orbit? Or couldn't space age bombers drop JDAMS in an air war instead of dropping all those ridiculous troopers down to get slaughtered? Does this have anything to do with General Yoda's military prowess?  IF 30 JEDI COULD SNEAK INTO A FOOTBALL STADIUM OF 100,000 GEONOSIANS COULD A COUPLE OF CLONE S.E.A.L.S. (or jedi commandos) SABOTAGE THE FORCES FOR THE ASSAULT to prevent such a bloody battle?


The military tactics of the Republic are much like the tactics used by the Soviets in Red Dawn, which is to say "idiotic".
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#65 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 10:09 PM

(btw did you notice that both kisses were interuppted?)

You're absolutely right! I never thought of that before! Of course, the PT kiss is the dumbest ever executed on screen! It was like a spoof scene out of "The Naked Gun 33 1/3" or something! I mean, the music stops abruptly and everything!

Anyway, great catch! Lucas apes himself (actually, it's Kershner), and bombs it!!

Anakin is just an angst-ridden idiot. He doesn't ever seem eager (or even interested) in learning the skills of the Jedi. He's just an uncontrollable, unfocused, reluctant student. It's unclear what his motivations are but he never seems all that interested in the ways of the Jedi. Obi-Wan never truly seems interested in teaching him either. Who can blame him?

Yeah, whatever happened to that little kid exclaiming, "But it's what I always wanted to beee..? It's what I always dreamed of." Or some stupid shit like that.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#66 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 03:30 PM

Just another thought. There was a random James Cameron's Titanic documentary on tv the other night. If GL had been smart enough to hire another director for Ep2, do you think Cameron would have good? I think he would have been perfect because he has shown us he knows action in "Aliens" and romance in "Titanic." Think of how good it could have been....
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#67 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 03:50 PM

QUOTE (Just another wretched fan @ Feb 1 2005, 03:25 AM)
I don't understand why the Clone Wars couldn't have taken place 70-odd years before ANH. Yoda is alive cause he's Yoda. Vader is half-machine. The dark side keeps Palpatine alive, albeit wrinkled and pale, while in turn the Force sustains a 90 or 100+ year old Obi-Wan. It would makes sense then, why people would think Ben Kenobi is dead. Btw, in 2004, white male life expectancy is what? 70yrs? 80yrs? and rising? Aren't you and I supposed to live to be close to 100 if we were born in the 80s? How long is life expectancy in an advanced civilization like Star Wars?

I don't think this would be possible, because Owen Lars - who isn't a Force-user, and is only middle-aged - still remembers Anakin and the Clone Wars. I agree that the short timeline makes all the nice shiny new technology of the PT seem ludicrously out of place (especially since war tends to cause technological advancement, not regression), but there would be a simple solution to that: don't show it. Unfortunately, Lucas is clearly far more concerned about making things look pretty than about small matters such as realism and continuity.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#68 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 03:08 AM

QUOTE
I just did a SW marathon this weekend to see if the dialogue in OT was as bad as NT and it was in parts. I realized that Luke was as annoyingly whiney as Anakin....BUT ITs STILL SO GOOD! WHY?


Hardly. Anakin's 'whininess' wasn't so much the problem as how he delivers his stupid lines. Luke had motive behind his stuff and determination. His complaining results from his disbelief or lack of knowledge about things, such as the fact that he hardly knows anything about the mechanics of a hyperdrive when he asks Han as to why they haven't entered hyperspace, or his disbelief in the Force and his own abilities when he fails to lift the X-wing from the swamp and refuses to believe Yoda's preaching about the force. It wasn't being 'whiny' at all. I never thought of it that way at all. Also, when Luke says his intentions of joining the Academy, his uncle doesn't allow him to go right away and Luke gets upset because of it, and understandably so, since Luke apparently had a lot of plans for his future and his uncle really was getting in the way of them. Also, he wasn't as vocal about it, when Obi-Wan wants Luke to come with him, Luke refuses at first and talks about the work he has to do. I can't see how he could pass out any where NEAR the level of annoyingness of Anakin, if anything, many people would sympathise with him and feel sorry him, as they should.

Anakin, on the other hand, had no real motivation behind his continous complaining and crying over Obi-Wan's supposed 'holding him back'. We see NOTHING of this at all, no real evidance of Obi-Wan doing anything to hold Anakin back, and whenever Anakin complains, he tends to go to big lengths about it and exagerrates too much, when he gets pissed at his mothers death, he talks like a small kid about he wants to stop people from dying and being all powerful. Even I never spoke like that in my entire life! You can't really compare Luke with Anakin, the difference between them is the difference between day and night!
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#69 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 03:58 AM

I have to agree with you there Paladin, I was just trying to look at the OT from a different angle.

Two things I read up on make me even more depressed:

(spoiler...ish - although since ep III will suck i don't think you should care)

The credits for epIII on imdb.com show Peter Mayhew as Chewbacca....

I can just see the miserable, useless scene already: "Hello Obi-Wan, my name is Fluffy and here is my son Chewbacca" ::Chewbacca mugs for the camera:: -Baby Chewie will then do ablsolutely nothing to advance the plot except stand around for the kids to see in random scenes. Or he may save the day by accident. Bah

And knowing lucas its going to be as bad as every other OT reference....maybe even as painful as Boba Fett's origin.

(Spoiler/Fan Speculation:)

Also, in the new Vanity Fair. George Lucas talked about how Anakin is going to go to Hell....literally...and sell his soul in exchange for the power to bring people back to life. (Lucas is quoted as saying "just like Faust.") Basically I think that retarded line of dialogue in AOTC "i want to bring people back from the dead" is going to have meaning now...which is terrible considering its such a crappily delivered line. Also, Anakin is probably gonna try to bring Shmi back...which i think is stupid.

An authority on Japanese film and culture told me years ago (before TPM) how he thought Lucas would corrupt Anakin, based on Kurosawa (sp). and Japanese story arcs. The way you make a really good guy go evil is for love of 'the girl'. Bad guy tricks good guy with a pathetic fallacy into doing bad thing for right reason or something like that. Things aren't turning out that way at all... I just now this is going to become a big Dr. Faustus-meets-Oedipus-Rex to make us all sick to our collective stomachs.

GL was also quoted as saying that he wants to show that Vader is actually quite a pathetic character - he's not very powerful at all and just a slave to Palpatine. Although the idea of a pathetic Vader could have great potential. I have a funny feeling that in a way only GL can, he will ruin the entire character of Vader and make him a loser just as he did to Boba Fett.

In a final GLian way of further legitimizing the PT, GL says quote: that after Anakins critical injury, most of his midichlorians will have been lost so he is now less powerful than Sidious." Although it makes sense....why midichlorians in the first place. Bah

Even if Lucas makes the first 2 movies make sense by explaining things further in III....I and II will have still sucked by themselves. Its just wrong.

Any way you go, Chelfelf will have an easy time making the new list.

sorry, i don't feel like editing this post..
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#70 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE (Just another wretched fan @ Feb 9 2005, 03:58 AM)
The credits for epIII on imdb.com show Peter Mayhew as Chewbacca....

I can just see the miserable, useless scene already: "Hello Obi-Wan,  my name is Fluffy and here is my son Chewbacca" ::Chewbacca mugs for the camera:: -Baby Chewie will then do ablsolutely nothing to advance the plot except stand around for the kids to see in  random scenes. Or he may  save the day by accident. Bah


Well, Chewbacca is supposed to be around 200 years old during the OT so unfortunately we won't be treated to an awkward "baby Chewy" scene. We will, however, be treated to an awkward "let's meet Chewbacca" scene and that's bad enough.
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#71 User is offline   The Scornful Roman Icon

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Post icon  Posted 10 February 2005 - 09:12 AM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Feb 10 2005, 08:57 AM)
Well, Chewbacca is supposed to be around 200 years old during the OT so unfortunately we won't be treated to an awkward "baby Chewy" scene.  We will, however, be treated to an awkward "let's meet Chewbacca" scene and that's bad enough.


Gahh!! No! Han was supposed to have met Chewie when he was a young Imperial officer and Chewie was a maltreated slave on a construction work force! Han rescued him and he got cashiered for it!

Y'know, I like the EU's way of doing Star Wars so much better than the Prequels', it's sad.
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#72 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 09:33 AM

Chewie IS in ROTS. Tehy said so on the news about a year and a half back. It was on Yahoo, if I'm not mistaken.
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#73 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 09:46 AM

QUOTE (The Scornful Roman @ Feb 10 2005, 09:12 AM)
Gahh!! No! Han was supposed to have met Chewie when he was a young Imperial officer and Chewie was a maltreated slave on a construction work force! Han rescued him and he got cashiered for it!

Y'know, I like the EU's way of doing Star Wars so much better than the Prequels', it's sad.


But that has still happened. It doesn't mean that Chewie didn't exist previously.

QUOTE (Paladin @ Feb 10 2005, 09:33 AM)
Chewie IS in ROTS. Tehy said so on the news about a year and a half back. It was on Yahoo, if I'm not mistaken.


Yes, he's definitely in ROTS. That news is quite old. smile.gif
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#74 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 02:39 PM

If I'm not mistaken, I email you about it when it first came up, but you never replied. I guess you were too busy at that time. :shrug:
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#75 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 09:23 AM

The Chewie thing? I didn't reply? That doesn't sound like me. rolleyes.gif

Sorry if I didn't reply, I do make a point to reply to every email I get. Perhaps my spam filters were being overly cautious that day. smile.gif
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