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Poor Castro Hope he gets better

#16 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 10:45 AM

Ok, can we stop with the "If you think ______ is good you should go live in ______"? I see that all the time and it's a complete logical fallacy. "Hey if Caesar Augustus is so great than why don't you go live in first century Rome? Don't wanna? Ha! That proves it, he was a crappy leader because YOU want to obey the laws of space/time!"

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#17 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 11:01 AM

However, there is the fact that unless one has been/lived in a place, they can only assume they "know" about it based on rumours, the fickle, biased (on both sides) media, and usually, other people that haven't been there or lived there. Which makes your argument a little weak. Especially to someone that does talk to people that have been or lived there, and they say the opposite that you do. I mean, not that you can go over there and live there a while. I'm not asking you to do that. However, calling your opinion fact when we see no reason why your opinion is more trustworthy about the particular topic than anyone else's will probably incite the argument that you haven't been or lived there, and therefore can't know what you're talking about.
And by the way, Octavius totally kicks Augustus's ass. tongue.gif
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#18 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 11:25 AM

SP- I have talked to people that have been there, I'm reading an 800 page book by someone who has been there and spoken with Castro and numerous exiles. And I don't see why all of a sudden everyone on the forum who is against Castro is a vital member of the Miami exile community. And you still have the problem that the word of people who left their country is clearly going to be biased. The exiles are either going to be the wealthy classes who lost their ownership of Cuba to the people, or they're going to be US allies, their families, or former regime elements.

It's the same as basing your idea of Iraq off of the opinions of Iraqi exiles, which as we established was a bad thing.

And Octavian WAS Caesar Augustus, by the way.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 22 January 2007 - 11:26 AM

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#19 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 01:07 PM

Or they're going to be people who just didn't like how things were being run, wealthy or not.

It's also a bad thing to just brush off those people's opinions and observations because you don't like them or you think they're biased. They're getting those opinions from somewhere.
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#20 User is offline   Otal Nimrodi Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 22 2007, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And Octavian WAS Caesar Augustus, by the way.


So we have to clone him, call one Octavian, one Caesar Augustus, and put them in a death match to see who wins.
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#21 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 02:18 PM

...That was a joke. Ah, well.

Jm, I don't even remember you mentioning you talked to people etc. That does make your argument rise a little in my eyes.

However, the fact that you've clumped everyone that has left Cuba together as the same and wrong, puts it back down. Because they've left Cuba, they're biased and therefore wrong? Hmm... How about, because you're from America and you haven't moved, you're a republican jackass with bleached blonde hair? You're just assigning attributes to people, without a real reason for it. You know why SOME people left Cuba, and so you're assuming that everyone else left Cuba for those same reasons. And not listening to the reasons they give, because don't forget - they're biased.
Now, I'm not saying that Cuba is hell or any of that. I'm just saying it's very unfair to discredit everyone other than those who agree with you and whose stories contribute to your argument, especially those people who are speaking from experience (i.e. those who have left Cuba).
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#22 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 06:41 PM

QUOTE (Salamander @ Jan 17 2007, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not even Nazis? mellow.gif


Godwin's Law strikes again.
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#23 User is offline   Otal Nimrodi Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 07:53 PM

JM WINS!
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#24 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 09:53 PM

That's not how it works... 0.o

I have to agree with the Spoon on her point. Why is it people always seems to say something I've thought of or tried to say, except they do it much more elaborately?
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#25 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 10:05 PM

P.S. If I read a 1600-page book about Cuba and Castro, does that make me twice as right as you, Jm? tongue.gif (I'm teasing you, please don't take it the wrong way)
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#26 User is offline   Renegade Icon

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:14 PM

Something that should be considered is that cuba is unlivable partially BECAUSE of the West (primarily America) want to see it as such. Not to say that it would be an amazing place to live with if America didn't pester it.
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#27 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 07:33 PM

Plus, the American standard of living is so much higher than everywhere else...
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#28 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 09:01 PM

I'm rather curious, just why is Cuba so unlivable? More people come to America from Mexico than Cuba easily, and yet Cuba is this unbelievable hellhole for some reason? You guys are just assuming that because a country isn't America it must be a plague infested swamp land where people eat one another.

The US hypes every case of Cubans coming here from Cuba, but the real numbers aren't all that large. No one is starving in Cuba because the government subsidizes food. Everyone has free health care. There are indeed elections. Gay rights are starting to be recognized. And the education system is the best in South America. But, of course, it's clearly a commie death trap because it's not a part of America anymore like it was before the Revolution. Come on, open your eyes and look beyond the borders of this empire you live in.

There are people who are quite happy in other parts of the world regardless of whether they have X Boxes and all this bullshit or not. There are people who are unhappy here in the US, people living on the streets and killing eachother just for money to survive. There are thousands of kids who have to join the military and go half a world away to butcher women and children because they have no way to pay for education (unlike in Cuba, where college is free) and there are no jobs in their towns.

But yeah, everywhere that isn't the US is clearly a terrible place.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 30 January 2007 - 09:08 PM

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#29 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 09:38 PM

To be fair, it's a little easier to get from Mexico to the US than Cuba. Mexicans don't need to swim through the Gulf/Ocean.
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#30 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 10:14 PM

QUOTE (Dr Lecter @ Jan 17 2007, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not a socialist, but all of the chicks love socialists, so I just fake it.


only while they're in college. after that they stop dating the interesting guys and start seeing the boring ones
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