Chefelf.com Night Life: God vs Global Warming - Chefelf.com Night Life

Jump to content

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3

God vs Global Warming Same song, scratched disc, on repeat

#1 User is offline   Chyld Icon

  • Ancient Monstrosity
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Crappy News Team
  • Posts: 5,770
  • Joined: 04-March 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Not Alaska
  • Country:United Kingdom

Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:58 AM

QUOTE
Federal Way schools restrict Gore film
'Inconvenient Truth' called too controversial

This week in Federal Way schools, it got a lot more inconvenient to show one of the top-grossing documentaries in U.S. history, the global-warming alert "An Inconvenient Truth."

After a parent who supports the teaching of creationism and opposes sex education complained about the film, the Federal Way School Board on Tuesday placed what it labeled a moratorium on showing the film. The movie consists largely of a computer presentation by former Vice President Al Gore recounting scientists' findings.

"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old. "The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is. ... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."

Hardison's e-mail to the School Board prompted board member David Larson to propose the moratorium Tuesday night.

"Somebody could say you're killing free speech, and my retort to them would be we're encouraging free speech," said Larson, a lawyer. "The beauty of our society is we allow debate."

School Board members adopted a three-point policy that says teachers who want to show the movie must ensure that a "credible, legitimate opposing view will be presented," that they must get the OK of the principal and the superintendent, and that any teachers who have shown the film must now present an "opposing view."

The requirement to represent another side follows district policy to represent both sides of a controversial issue, board President Ed Barney said.

"What is purported in this movie is, 'This is what is happening. Period. That is fact,' " Barney said.

Students should hear the perspective of global-warming skeptics and then make up their minds, he said. After they do, "if they think driving around in cars is going to kill us all, that's fine, that's their choice."

advertising
Asked whether an alternative explanation for evolution should be presented by teachers, Barney said it would be appropriate to tell students that other beliefs exist. "It's only a theory," he said.

While the question of climate change has provoked intense argument in political circles in recent years, among scientists its basic tenets have become the subject of an increasingly stronger consensus.

"In the light of new evidence and taking into account the remaining uncertainties, most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations," states a 2001 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which advises policymakers.

"Furthermore, it is very likely that the 20th-century warming has contributed significantly to the observed sea level rise, through thermal expansion of seawater and widespread loss of land ice."

The basics of that position are backed by the American Meteorological Society, the American Geophysical Union, the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the National Academy of Sciences.

Laurie David, a co-producer of the movie, said that this is the first incident of its kind relating to the film.

"I am shocked that a school district would come to this decision," David said in a prepared statement. "There is no opposing view to science, which is fact, and the facts are clear that global warming is here, now."

The Federal Way incident started when Hardison learned that his daughter would see the movie in class. He objected.

Hardison and his wife, Gayla, said they would prefer that the movie not be shown at all in schools.

"From what I've seen (of the movie) and what my husband has expressed to me, if (the movie) is going to take the approach of 'bad America, bad America,' I don't think it should be shown at all," Gayle Hardison said. "If you're going to come in and just say America is creating the rotten ruin of the world, I don't think the video should be shown."

Scientists say that Americans, with about 5 percent of the world's population, emit about 25 percent of the globe-warming gases.

Larson, the School Board member, said a pre-existing policy should have alerted teachers and principals that the movie must be counterbalanced.

The policy, titled "Controversial Issues, Teaching of," says in part, "It is the teacher's responsibility to present controversial issues that are free from prejudice and encourage students to form, hold and express their own opinions without personal prejudice or discrimination."

"The principal reason for that is to make sure that the public schools are not used for indoctrination," Larson said.

Students contacted Wednesday said they favor allowing the movie to be shown.

"I think that a movie like that is a really great way to open people's eyes up about what you can do and what you are doing to the planet and how that's going to affect the human race," said Kenna Patrick, a senior at Jefferson High School.

When it comes to the idea of presenting global warming skeptics, Patrick wasn't sure how necessary that would be. She hadn't seen the movie but had read about it and would like to see it.

"Watching a movie doesn't mean that you have to believe everything you see in it," she said.

Joan Patrick, Kenna's mother, thought it would be a good idea for students to see the movie. They are the ones who will be dealing with the effects of a warmer planet.

"It's their job," she said. "They're the next generation."

http://seattlepi.nws...nvenient11.html


Its not like I even need to say anything after an article like that. I imagine that the good Doctor will cover the salient points when he gets here. However, I will make two points.

- "The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD." Isn't that what the whole effing film is about?

- America: It Takes Just One Narrow-Minded Douche To Stop Anythinng Changing! You could use that as a slogan.
When you lose your calm, you feed your anger.

Less Is More v4
Now resigned to a readership of me, my cat and some fish
0

#2 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

  • Canada's Next Top Model.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 3,382
  • Joined: 01-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Your Dreams
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:Canada

Posted 12 January 2007 - 05:44 AM

The film proposes that Global warming will lead to climate change, not the destruction of the Earth. I guess that means that it's taking some really hard stance against sacred beliefs. Holy shit. All the movie says is that unless changes are made in emissions, we could experience serious economic hardships in the near future. The Bible, expecially the Book of Revelation, proposes that all whose name are not written in the Book of Life (of Light?) will be cast into a lake of fire, or some shit like that. I think in a sane world the two notions could peacefully coexist.

I propose that any mention of the Bible and its teachings needs immediately to be followed, in all public debate, including in churches, with the disclaimer, "This is only a theory, and it might be wrong."

This stuff is awesome. I suppose if some biblethumping nutbag were to find out that the Bible defined Pi as 3 we'd have to present the accepted value as a"theory," right?
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
0

#3 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

  • Henchman
  • Pip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 19-August 06
  • Country:United States

Posted 12 January 2007 - 06:01 AM

I'm not sure what to say about the article as a whole; it's really beyond my realm of understanding because, while I did grow up in an extremely conservative community, there weren't debates like this going on where religious preferences dictated public school curriculum. But, I would like to comment on a few points in the article that I take exception to:

QUOTE
"Somebody could say you're killing free speech, and my retort to them would be we're encouraging free speech," said Larson, a lawyer. "The beauty of our society is we allow debate."


People have weird ideas concerning free speech; apparently institutional censorship is the same as a free and open discourse.

Also, I'm curious to hear about how the policy of presenting opposing sides of a controversial issue works in that school district. How are you ever going to present a view of any issue that is free from prejudice?

QUOTE
I am shocked that a school district would come to this decision," David said in a prepared statement. "There is no opposing view to science, which is fact, and the facts are clear that global warming is here, now."


I find this view particularly annoying too. Science is based on data collection; yes, that would mean that science is based on certain "facts" which we can evaluate. Science is not fact; like all other human endeavors, science is affected by personal and cultural biases. Science, in other words, is the foundation for a materialist interpretation of existence. Christianity is an opposing view to science (although it depends on what kind of interpretation of Christianity you're taking) because Christianity rejects recordable phenomenom as the only basis for evaluating what is fact. Christianity, and other religions, take into account the spiritual as well as the physical. The fact that science rejects religion as a viable alternative provides further evidence that science does indeed have a bias.

To clarify what I just wrote there, I'm not saying that science offers no explanations of how and why things happen in the world. In fact, I'm quite a big believer in scientific research, and I have a lot more faith in that than I do in religion. The point I am trying to make is that there ARE ALWAYS alternatives and opposing views. And facts are really a commodity which is relative to the viewpoint you've adopted. What is rational from a scientific perspective and from a religious perspective are two very different things.

To say that science is fact and that nothing can oppose fact is a dangerous farce, and movie producers are the last people in the world we need summarizing philosophical debates for us.

QUOTE
"The principal reason for that is to make sure that the public schools are not used for indoctrination," Larson said.


Public school is all about indoctrination; we wouldn't have kids learning to say the flag salute if we weren't trying to imbue them with a certain "American" sensibility; we don't present the viewpoints of Holocaust deniers when we cover World War II in History classes; students are still expected to learn in English, no matter what impression you might get from bi-lingual education.

The policy of teaching controversial issues, which the school board member is defending, is not in place so that students can receive a bias-free education. That policy is in place so that school districts can have grounds for banning or censoring materials which they feel are subversive.

* * * * * *

Anyway, I don't hate America. I really like it here in fact; I don't think I'd want to live anywhere else. But I don't like hypocrisy and I don't like it when people continually deny the existence of bias in the system. If you're human, you have biases and prejudices; you can't help it; it's just the product of your experiences. What we should be teaching kids is how to recognize biases and how facts are somewhere in the middle between extremes, not chasing after some ideal of impartiality that doesn't exist.

As far as free speech goes, I think you can solve a lot by having open, public discussions about things; but if all public discussion is just a handful of extremists shouting until they get their way, well, that's not very productive and it's downright lazy on the part of any administration.

I guess what's really amazing about this story is that, Federal Way Schools are not somewhere in the Bible Belt or the Midwest, they're in the state of Washington. Yeah, the West Coast is really liberal...

johnnycancer

EDIT: I just saw civ2's post and this is awesome!

QUOTE
I propose that any mention of the Bible and its teachings needs immediately to be followed, in all public debate, including in churches, with the disclaimer, "This is only a theory, and it might be wrong."


I concur.

This post has been edited by johnnycancer: 12 January 2007 - 06:06 AM

0

#4 User is offline   Slade Icon

  • Full of Bombs and/or Keys
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 8,626
  • Joined: 30-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Columbia, SC
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:United States

Posted 12 January 2007 - 11:41 AM

I think the moon is made of cheese. Despite some "potential" evidence to the contrary, I demand that we offer the moon being made of cheese as an alternative viewpoint to those believing that it is made of rock. I disbelieve that evidence, and therefore this issue is now controversal, and all views should be taught to school children so they can decide for themselves what to believe.
This space for rent. Inquire within.
0

#5 User is offline   Otal Nimrodi Icon

  • Miracle Ghost
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5,442
  • Joined: 26-June 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:I like my my little pony characters like I like my suspected criminals. Mirandized.
  • Country:United States

Posted 12 January 2007 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE
"Somebody could say you're killing free speech, and my retort to them would be we're encouraging free speech," said Larson, a lawyer. "The beauty of our society is we allow debate."


We allow debate, of COURSE!

Provided only one side has any evidence.
Want a Tarot reading?

PM me, we'll talk.
0

#6 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

  • Henchman
  • Pip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 19-August 06
  • Country:United States

Posted 12 January 2007 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE
I think the moon is made of cheese. Despite some "potential" evidence to the contrary, I demand that we offer the moon being made of cheese as an alternative viewpoint to those believing that it is made of rock. I disbelieve that evidence, and therefore this issue is now controversal, and all views should be taught to school children so they can decide for themselves what to believe.


Ha! Yeah, I was trying to make this point earlier; anything could potentially be a controversial issue. The bottom line is, we live in a culture that values scientific fact over other "alternative viewpoints." If you want your kids taught a creationist view of how the world was created, then send them to Catholic school or home school them. Public school isn't there so it can inform kids on every possible alternative view of everything.

Oh, on a different note, to what end are the Federal Way Public Schools showing the Gore film anyway? Shouldn't they be spending time trying to raise students standardized test scores so that No Child Left Behind doesn't penalize them and make them offer after school tutoring programs which the school can't afford, and also requires them to bus students to "high performing schools" which are overcrowded? The parents should be upset because the school district is wasting their time on things which do not directly affect the academic future of their children, not about the content of a movie.

johnnycancer
0

#7 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

  • Canada's Next Top Model.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 3,382
  • Joined: 01-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Your Dreams
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:Canada

Posted 12 January 2007 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE (johnnycancer @ Jan 12 2007, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ha! Yeah, I was trying to make this point earlier; anything could potentially be a controversial issue. The bottom line is, we live in a culture that values scientific fact over other "alternative viewpoints." If you want your kids taught a creationist view of how the world was created, then send them to Catholic school or home school them. Public school isn't there so it can inform kids on every possible alternative view of everything.
johnnycancer

Catholic schools don't teach Creationism. Catholics believe in Evolution, set in motion by God.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
0

#8 User is offline   Cyzyk Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 495
  • Joined: 09-March 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 12 January 2007 - 08:56 PM

Much as I loathe both Al Gore and his lousy, scattered, and bogus video, I think that prohibiting it on this basis is rather weak. I've seen the video in question, and I feel it is weak in terms of both its strong bias and poor representation of the reality of the issue.
Tolerance is another word for Apathy
0

#9 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

  • Henchman
  • Pip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 19-August 06
  • Country:United States

Posted 13 January 2007 - 03:58 AM

QUOTE (Cyzyk @ Jan 12 2007, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Much as I loathe both Al Gore and his lousy, scattered, and bogus video, I think that prohibiting it on this basis is rather weak. I've seen the video in question, and I feel it is weak in terms of both its strong bias and poor representation of the reality of the issue.


What is the reality of the issue?

Not to seem confrontational, but that would probably be pertinent to the discussion.

johnnycancer
0

#10 User is offline   David-kyo Icon

  • Goatboy
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,305
  • Joined: 18-June 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:None of your business.
  • Country:Hungary

Posted 13 January 2007 - 09:06 AM

Is there a special school for Fundamentalist Christians, by the way? There should be, because then anyone who takes the Bible literally and thinks that the world is 12.000 years old would be able to send their kids there. Everything solved. There, the children can be taught to be afraid of going to hell if they sin or just have any joy in life whatsoever, while the rest of the world can get on with their lives and focus on the real problems at hand.

This post has been edited by David-kyo: 13 January 2007 - 09:07 AM

0

#11 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

  • Almighty God Of All Morals
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,132
  • Joined: 03-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Crawley/Hull
  • Country:United Kingdom

Posted 13 January 2007 - 09:16 AM

Anyone that thinks creationism is a science needs a new dictionary.
0

#12 User is offline   Slade Icon

  • Full of Bombs and/or Keys
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 8,626
  • Joined: 30-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Columbia, SC
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:United States

Posted 13 January 2007 - 08:53 PM

The reality is that I can look out my window in Upstate/Western New York and see green grass, blooming trees, and I can go outside in shorts with no adverse effects in mid January.
This space for rent. Inquire within.
0

#13 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

  • Pimpin'
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 2,876
  • Joined: 27-September 05
  • Gender:Female
  • Country:United States

Posted 13 January 2007 - 09:02 PM

Yeah. I could have gone swimming the other day. I know I live in the south, but this is freaking ridiculous. We haven't seen so much as frost on the grass this year.
I am writing about Jm in my signature because apparently it's an effective method of ignoring him.
0

#14 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

  • God damn it, Nappa.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,560
  • Joined: 26-December 05
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Three octaves down to your left.
  • Interests:Thermonuclear warfare and other pleasantries.
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 14 January 2007 - 04:04 AM

Same here. crying.gif Snow only fell twice, didn't last. It's like they just skipped winter... AND I BLAME GOD!

Quote

Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
0

#15 User is offline   Jordan Icon

  • Tummy Friend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,161
  • Joined: 31-October 03
  • Location:Mars
  • Interests:I have none.
  • Country:Ethiopia

Posted 14 January 2007 - 04:07 AM

The world is dead. Doesn't matter what belief you have. We will never stop polluting this planet. We over consume, pollute, waste, and destroy. We are expending our renewable resources at an appalling rate. Our society gets rich and stays comfortable on this regime of planetary destruction. We will never sacrifice our standard of living. We need things, we need things we don't even need. Look at how much plastic waste we make and I'd say a good portion of it was totally un-necessary.

Even if N.America and Europe smarten up, there are still the 3rd world countries who are decades behind. Nobody will help them lower emissions and start implementing special interest groups with a voice, like environment Canada and the parks board and so on.

Mankind can not coexist with nature when there are billions of us on this planet. It's just not in the cards. We will continue to be frightened of Global Warming, but at the same time we will continue to accept it. It's become taboo.

If you're a Christian then you believe that God will destroy the planet (who cares he'll build a new one). If you're an atheist then you believe that the world will die from global warming. Either way the world is going to die.

Mankind has become some what of a plague on this planet. We eat away at it and multiply. Seriously, things that shouldn't be dieing are. Like sea life. If pollution does not finish them off, or the destruction of plankton, then we'll eat the fuckers to death. We'll eat them so fast that they won't have time to reproduce. We'll scoop them up in nets the size of a football field. We may not even eat them all, some will just go bad at the store counters and they'll be tossed out. Tuna man, that fish should not be thinning in numbers. But it is!

Global warming and over consuming. Good luck solving one problem let alone two. This is the END. I give this planet another 100 years tops. We'll be like mad max in 150, scouring the planet for food like a bunch of savages, eating one another maybe.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 14 January 2007 - 04:36 AM

Oh SMEG. What the smeggity smegs has smeggins done? He smeggin killed me. - Lister of Smeg, space bum
0

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3


Fast Reply

  • Decrease editor size
  • Increase editor size