Chefelf.com Night Life: Check out my crappy website! - Chefelf.com Night Life

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Check out my crappy website! And give me feedback, please.

#16 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 03:03 AM

... I don't know why I followed that link... ouch. crying.gif

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Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
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#17 User is offline   David-kyo Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 04:31 AM

Putting the problems with the design of the page aside, my main problem was that there was no much real content on it. I know, I know, you're probably new to this thing, and you're very enthusiastic about it, however, people usually create websites when they have something to put on it, like, for example in Yahtzee's case: he made some games, comic strips, writings, and AFTER THAT he created FR.com and put the stuff on it (correct me if I'm wrong). Not the other way around. Conjuring up stuff just for the sake of being able to upload something to your website is hardly a good path to tread. Do you have any future plans for it, such as how often are you going to update it and with what?
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#18 User is offline   Prodian Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 05:05 AM

QUOTE (Gobbler @ Oct 13 2006, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... I don't know why I followed that link... ouch. crying.gif

Who me? That hurts... crying.gif
Seriously, I don't get the prejudice against IFrames.
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#19 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 05:08 AM

Awful support, awful implementation, awful look.

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Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
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#20 User is offline   Icey Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 06:16 AM

Your main problem is the complete and utter lack of being visually pleasing. Sure it works for Maddox, BUT, he has an excellent minimalist approach. Blacks and whites, that's it! You incorperated blue, my ex used PURPLE on black once, she could read it, I've yet to be able to. Heck, can't see the letters, you're not that bad, but the blue is bordering on it.

Frames are excellent, in my humble opinion, floaters, in my experience are fragile because of a thing I called TEXT SIZE UP. Seen web pages go POOF into a puff of logic with that. You should build a webpage with either a side bar or a top bar instead of a few paragrpahs made up from a single word. It looks amateur and nothing scares people away faster. Except for blinking lights, except for blinking lights (See Wrath at the Seven Deadly Forums)

Also, doing a webpage that is light on content for people to seek out repeatedly and stuff, you need a good writer's voice, like Yahtzee, Joe R. Landale and again Maddox. But never, ever, ever try to sound like any of them because you'll fail and people will hate you forever.

Just my two cents.

P.S. Yahtzee, that was beautiful.
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#21 User is offline   Prodian Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 07:00 AM

QUOTE (Gobbler @ Oct 13 2006, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Awful support, awful implementation, awful look.


Support: I prefer Micorsoft Internet Explorer, and I think Microsoft Products would work better on Microfsoft operating systems than third party software (Bill Gate's would have seen to that the chep bastard).
Implementation: Yeah, some people are really bad at that.
Look: You'd be surprised how many places use them without you even realising.
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#22 User is offline   Zazzo Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 07:32 AM

I happen to be running Linux, on which Microsoft Internet Explorer is not an option. I am almost certain your site does not display in Firefox 1.5.0.7 the way it was intended -- I have to scroll one full page down to find the title.
IFrames and most layout tag attributes are well known to have implementation bugs across browsers; this is why we have style attributes and stylesheets now.

I think one of the problems with your site in my browser is more simple, however: one of your </tr tags is missing the closing >.

None of your links work correctly for me either; I don't know if that's related to the iframe. But why use an IFrame here? You have a bar along the top and a bar along the left (unless the format's messed up for me) -- normal frames are far better supported than iframes and could easily recreate the exact same layout.

Frames in general are generally frowned upon, however, because they screw up the back button in the browser and aren't easily viewable on more limited forms of display; e.g. text-mode browsers (which I *am* stuck using sometimes). And it's never fun to be stuck inside somebody else's frame, clicking links on an unrelated website.
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#23 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 07:35 AM

QUOTE (Prodian @ Oct 13 2006, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Support: I prefer Micorsoft Internet Explorer, and I think Microsoft Products would work better on Microfsoft operating systems than third party software (Bill Gate's would have seen to that the chep bastard).

Honestly, you shouldn't think. Won't get you far.

QUOTE (Prodian @ Oct 13 2006, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Look: You'd be surprised how many places use them without you even realising.

You'd be surprised to know that I know how many places are using them. Still, it's only suitable for some things, e-shops, for example. And that's what AJAX and the likes are for, so it's not only a major design fault, but also heavily obsolete and depricated.

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Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
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#24 User is offline   Prodian Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 08:59 AM

QUOTE (Gobbler @ Oct 13 2006, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Honestly, you shouldn't think. Won't get you far.
You'd be surprised to know that I know how many places are using them. Still, it's only suitable for some things, e-shops, for example. And that's what AJAX and the likes are for, so it's not only a major design fault, but also heavily obsolete and depricated.


I guess this means I'm gonna learn StyleSheets, huh? I'll leave it how it is for now and I'll update from it later.
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#25 User is offline   Prodian Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:35 AM

Is there any alternative to Iframes but has similar properties?

I would have just edited my last post but for some reason I couldn't see the edit button.
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#26 User is offline   Zazzo Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 10:55 AM

IFrames are probably the best solution to nesting a page inside another without using javascript. The question is, is that really what you want to do? It obscures the page url (showing a main page url in the titlebar for every subpage, making bookmarks and links to subpages very difficult to implement outside the site), screws up the browser history (making the forward and back buttons not always work as expected), does not display in old and non-mainstream browsers, and traps the content and any standard links in that content in a small subwindow of the page. There are alternatives to iframes, such as ajax and standard frames, standard frames being the only really "compatible" choice, but they suffer from similar disadvantages.

Is your container page really so large that you are worried about the impact of its loading time? Remember that the browser caches images, and most of the formatting information can be moved into an external stylesheet, which the browser will also cache.

To tell the truth iframes aren't that bad anymore, as long as you make sure they work in all the browsers you're targeting, now that most modern browsers support them. Most older browsers do not, if you care about that. The only real reason to use an IFrame I can see is bandwidth savings and perhaps smoothness of navigation. Ajax can give much greater bandwidth savings if you only care about modern browsers, but ajax means learning some basic javascript, and has its own massive bag of potential pitfalls. I happen to be strongly prejudiced against iframes because they were so prevalent *before* my browser of choice had any support for them! So my brain is wired against them.

--

I couldn't resist posting this because I love to argue, but I think Gobbler actually knows more about this than I do, so now I force myself to stop talking.
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#27 User is offline   Kirby Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 03:59 PM

Whoa whoa whoa, before we start pushing Dan into StyleSheets, javascripts and other advanced bits maybe we should teach him the basics.

First problem would be the lack of a navagation bar. This can be easily done with a simple table in html. Unfortunatly I don't have my own webspace at the moment so you'll just have to copy paste the following into notepad then saveas as a .htm file.

HTML
<html>
<head>tabletest</head>
<body>
<table width = "100%">
<tr>
<td width = "30%">
<h2>Navagation</h2>
Linky</br>
dinky</br>
doo</p>
</td>
<td width = "70%">
<h1>Main Content</h1>
<p>Insert Lorem Ipsum here.</p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>

It seems as though the code box doesn't show the tabs, oh well.

The atributes that I've put on the table and it's table datas (columns) is width. This can either be done in pixles or % of window avaliable taken, I've picked % for this example. This puts the links on the side navigation bar and creates a margin for the main content. !Warning! I'm not exactally sure how tables, or any code would work with the banner ads that your webspace has put on you !Warning!

If you're still interested in web design w3schools.com is a great resouce for learning about coding.

One question though, how much html, or any coding experiance do you have Dan?

Edit: Also, the links should be on their own page. Especially the banners.

This post has been edited by Kirby: 13 October 2006 - 04:04 PM

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#28 User is offline   Prodian Icon

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 06:35 PM

Sorry to take the limelight from you Dan.

I'll just make another version of my website without IFrames. It will just stretch the table that holds the IFrame. Tables weren't popular in the 90's, hence the reason why those sites are so awful. Tables let you set up the format of your page easier, give it more structure.
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#29 User is offline   Nostaw Icon

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 07:30 PM

Dan, if feedback is what you wanted, you got to be quite happy right now.

Man, it's not the design that matters. I mean, it helps, but it must not be your bigger concern right now.

When I clicked your website, the only thing I saw was a black screen with small white lines and dots that seemed to be letters. Looking at it again now, I'm quite sure they really are. I don't care because I (and half of the forum, correct me if I'm wrong) usually don't read amateur websites. I just click in the word that has something to do with what I want and then I click download.

But I'm not gonna click on anything if the owner says he "shamefully" presents something "crappy". Please: stop making your own website look like a piece of shit and show some self-respect, specially if you don't have anything else to show...
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#30 User is offline   Dan_N_GameZ Icon

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:30 PM

Nostaw! I'd hug you, but I'm afraid of how it would be interpreted...

Anyways, I took your advice, and went with my girlfriend on a vacation, although I went to the crappy Romanian seaside... We have this location, it's called Vama Veche and it's basically a haven for drunken young people (over 18, of course) and rock'n'roll... I returned anew... I fell better now.

Anyway, let's see what's been going on...
QUOTE (Nostaw @ Oct 16 2006, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dan, if feedback is what you wanted, you got to be quite happy right now.

Yessir! I appreciate honesty over anything else.

QUOTE
Man, it's not the design that matters. I mean, it helps, but it must not be your bigger concern right now.

When I clicked your website, the only thing I saw was a black screen with small white lines and dots that seemed to be letters. Looking at it again now, I'm quite sure they really are. I don't care because I (and half of the forum, correct me if I'm wrong) usually don't read amateur websites. I just click in the word that has something to do with what I want and then I click download.

But I'm not gonna click on anything if the owner says he "shamefully" presents something "crappy". Please: stop making your own website look like a piece of shit and show some self-respect, specially if you don't have anything else to show...

Yes, well... I figured the "shamefully and such presents" part would generate at least a smirk from someone... I guess I was wrong.

And there is something there to download, although it isn't much... And I plan to write a new feature and an update soon and some more reviews (I've just played Monkey Island I! And I'm playing Monkey Island II now!)...

Oh, and I'm also working on a new design, a better one, with TABLES! (thanks Kirby)
It will take some time, seeing as I need to go job hunting, (blergh) but fret not.

And if anyone dares download and play Industrial Revelations, please, give me feedback on that as well. But don't you dare play it without reading the manual first, 'cause if you don't read the manual, I doubt you'll be able to play it.

Right, correct me if I'm wrong, but the main problems of the site so far are:
- Bad bad bad bad bad design.
- Not much to see, read, do.

The first one I can handle a bit, but the second will take some time...
"Once upon a time, musta been 'round October, few years back, in one o' dose TOP SECRET LAB-MOTORIES de gubbnint keep stashed away underneath Virginia, an EVIL PRINCE, occasion'ly employed as a part-time THEATRICAL CRITICIZER set to woikin' on a plot fo de systematic GENOCIDICAL REMOVE'LANCE of all unwanted highly-rhythmic individj'lls an' sissy-boys!" (Prologue, Thing-Fish)

Quoting other forumers in your signature seems to be the latest craze around here...

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